Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Cheyenne Culpepper 32827

Has anyone ever seen the 170 broken by picking up a dropped round?

Recommended Posts

I would like to hear from you if you have!!!!

 

I started the other thread to argue about the merits or such.

 

Reply hereonly if you have seen someone break the 170 picking up a dropped round!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

14 years...................NO!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to hear from you if you have!!!!

stop, you two are trying to argue using facts and not feelings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not seen the 170 broken by a muzzle

but I have see a few people who were bending over to pick up shotgun rounds have a revolver fall out of their hostelers.

Some unloaded and some loaded.

The appropriate penalty was given.

 

Two of these were at End of Trail matches.

One was on the first stage shot for a MDQ. (loaded)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, because it is not legal to do so. The few times I have seen anyone try it the RO or spotters yelled "no you can't pick up rounds off the ground."

 

Yes you can..............under the current rules it is a MSV.

 

If the shooter uses that round and hits the appropriate target it is a HIT!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yes you can..............under the current rules it is a MSV.

 

If the shooter uses that round and hit the appropriate target it is a HIT!

OK nit pick the heck out of every statement. The whole point is this can't be done LEGALLY which is what I said. It is not LEGAL to pick up rounds off the ground. Sure you can do a lot of stuff if you want a penalty. Didn't think we were discussing that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the second topic on dropped round rule.

 

Must be a big problem in certain parts of the country,,,, not where I shoot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I BROKE MY PRIDE :wacko:

WHEN I CAUGHT IT IN MID AIR THEN SET IT DOWN AND NOT USED IT. I

BOUGHT IT AND DIDN'T EVEN USE IT.

DAGNABBITT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not seen the 170 broken by a muzzle

but I have see a few people who were bending over to pick up shotgun rounds have a revolver fall out of their hostelers.

Some unloaded and some loaded.

The appropriate penalty was given.

 

Two of these were at End of Trail matches.

One was on the first stage shot for a MDQ. (loaded)

It's a sing along!

 

Oh where, oh where has the timer operator gone?

Oh where, oh where can he be?

Was he within arm's length... or was he asleep?

Oh where, oh where can he be?

 

Perhaps my biggest pet peeve is CROs who do not understand where they are supposed to be in regard to the shooter. "They are to be within an arm's length" (Page 5, item 4, RO1). They are to "anticipate what the shooter may do next" (Page 4, item 2, RO1) so they can intervene if needed. Any "fast" shooter would know it is waaaaaay slow to go the ground instead of the belt which would indicate that these shooters were not exactly Speedy Gonzales. To me this falls under "Assess the shooter’s condition" (Page 3, RO1). IMO, if someone can't head off a slow, perhaps inexperienced, shooter from unsafe or overly inefficient actions, they need to find a another job.

 

Edit to address the OP: I've never seen someone pick up a dropped round from the ground. I seem to recall once stopping a new shooter from doing so sometime in the last 11 years of shooting 3-5 matches a month.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They do it all the time in Wild Bunch. Usually it is retrieved from a prop. The only time I have seen ammo retrieved from the ground is a dropped magazine when that was the last magazine. Never seen the 170 broken. Watch your muzzle as you reach down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, because it is not legal to do so. The few times I have seen anyone try it the RO or spotters yelled "no you can't pick up rounds off the ground."

For the rationale in Larsen's reply, above, the Original Topic subject line is simply not relevant; it's a smoke screen.

 

It is not rational to argue for the repeal of the dropped round rule(s).

 

These rule-changer types are bad for this sport. It is especially evregious to assault the rules that SASS built in as safety nets, such as the dropped round rule. EVERYONE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT the proposal to abolish the the dropped round rules ONLY benefit a tiny percentage of the shooter population, but THE EFFECT is to unversally erode safety barriers that protect us all.

 

Vote no to abolishing the dropped round rule

Be sure you instruct your TG that he represents you and not himself or his cronies.

 

TG's ...... It's a conflict of interest for you to weigh in personally regarding TG Agenda items.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the rationale in Larsen's reply, above, the Original Topic subject line is simply not relevant; it's a smoke screen.

 

It is not rational to argue for the repeal of the dropped round rule(s).

 

These rule-changer types are bad for this sport. It is especially evregious to assault the rules that SASS built in as safety nets, such as the dropped round rule. EVERYONE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT the proposal to abolish the the dropped round rules ONLY benefit a tiny percentage of the shooter population, but THE EFFECT is to unversally erode safety barriers that protect us all.

 

Vote no to abolishing the dropped round rule

Be sure you instruct your TG that he represents you and not himself or his cronies.

 

TG's ...... It's a conflict of interest for you to weigh in personally regarding TG Agenda items.

 

I am NOT a TG.

 

and still no one can show one instance of breaking the 170?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...

TG's ...... It's a conflict of interest for you to weigh in personally regarding TG Agenda items.

More of your babbling BS.

<_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why in the hell would you even want to waste time picking up a dropped round to begin with, pullinf it from your person would be the quickest to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, We have Cat Brules take on the subject. Right, wrong, or indifferent.

 

I personally think it's a rule looking for a problem. I agree that picking a round up off the ground is poor thinking, even if no other violations were involved, it's slower. However a very large amount of dropped ammo is on a table or other prop, and is easily retrieved without the slightest chance of causing a muzzle direction violation. Sometimes the dropped ammo is closer than your gun belt, and much easier and safer to retrieve than fumbling around to find a round on your belt.

 

The rule needs to go....It originally was thought to be a necessary safety rule. That has proven to be in error. Time to get real and remove the unneeded, and unnecessary rule.

 

RBK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enforce the rules we have that cover the situation already. Break the 170, penalty. Drop a gun, penalty.

 

Nitpick over touching a round and whether it was "placed" or "dropped" or "landed where it was staged"? Get rid of that please.

 

If you would have asked me a few years ago I might have said lets leave it, but over hundreds of matches I just can't see a point to it anymore. We have rules to cover the potential serious violations.

 

I'm still going to leave rounds that fall out of reach, and I'm still going to walk away from whatever is left on the ground and let the brass pickers do their thing. Because scrounging for a round during or after a stage is simply never worth risking a DQ by sweeping people or dropping a gun.

 

If we finally pass this rule change, when newer shooters inevitably ask if it is ok to go for a dropped round, the answer we give them will still be in line with what we want them to do. "You can, but you shouldn't because there is no benefit to it and only risk of a DQ if you mess up, so just leave them." Then there will be no more need to go through the whole litany of why you can't use a round that lands on the table right in front of them, or a round that falls out of the gun into their hand... because they can. And common sense will prevail.

 

EDIT to answer OP's question: NO, I have not seen it happen even when someone did go for a dropped round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enforce the rules we have that cover the situation already. Break the 170, penalty. Drop a gun, penalty.

 

Nitpick over touching a round and whether it was "placed" or "dropped" or "landed where it was staged"? Get rid of that please.

 

If you would have asked me a few years ago I might have said lets leave it, but over hundreds of matches I just can't see a point to it anymore. We have rules to cover the potential serious violations.

 

I'm still going to leave rounds that fall out of reach, and I'm still going to walk away from whatever is left on the ground and let the brass pickers do their thing. Because scrounging for a round during or after a stage is simply never worth risking a DQ by sweeping people or dropping a gun.

 

If we finally pass this rule change, when newer shooters inevitably ask if it is ok to go for a dropped round, the answer we give them will still be in line with what we want them to do. "You can, but you shouldn't because there is no benefit to it and only risk of a DQ if you mess up, so just leave them." Then there will be no more need to go through the whole litany of why you can't use a round that lands on the table right in front of them, or a round that falls out of the gun into their hand... because they can. And common sense will prevail.

Yes sir, I think that is about as plain as I have heard it said right there....I'd support that.

 

Kajun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enforce the rules we have that cover the situation already. Break the 170, penalty. Drop a gun, penalty.

 

Nitpick over touching a round and whether it was "placed" or "dropped" or "landed where it was staged"? Get rid of that please.

 

If you would have asked me a few years ago I might have said lets leave it, but over hundreds of matches I just can't see a point to it anymore. We have rules to cover the potential serious violations.

 

I'm still going to leave rounds that fall out of reach, and I'm still going to walk away from whatever is left on the ground and let the brass pickers do their thing. Because scrounging for a round during or after a stage is simply never worth risking a DQ by sweeping people or dropping a gun.

 

If we finally pass this rule change, when newer shooters inevitably ask if it is ok to go for a dropped round, the answer we give them will still be in line with what we want them to do. "You can, but you shouldn't because there is no benefit to it and only risk of a DQ if you mess up, so just leave them." Then there will be no more need to go through the whole litany of why you can't use a round that lands on the table right in front of them, or a round that falls out of the gun into their hand... because they can. And common sense will prevail.

 

What is this common sense thing you speak of? <_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, the rule did not exist for many years in cowboy shooting.

 

I shot for many years before the rule and don't recall any problems.

 

I do sometimes see people automatically reach for the round when it falls on a table etc. (Except for having to break their train of thought to NOT pick it up and use it) no problems.

 

Breaking their train of thought however is decreasing the safety margin a little bit.

 

I know some honestly believe they are helping safety by adding such rules, but generally addition "preemptive measures" only cause more confusion and thus reduce safety.

Remember that confusion is not increasing the margin of safety.

 

This is a rule that is not directly safety related any more than having the shooter lean over to pick up their long guns, so I vote that we do away with the rule.

 

Or should we ban shooters from leaning over to pick up their long guns?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enforce the rules we have that cover the situation already. Break the 170, penalty. Drop a gun, penalty.

 

Nitpick over touching a round and whether it was "placed" or "dropped" or "landed where it was staged"? Get rid of that please.

 

If you would have asked me a few years ago I might have said lets leave it, but over hundreds of matches I just can't see a point to it anymore. We have rules to cover the potential serious violations.

 

I'm still going to leave rounds that fall out of reach, and I'm still going to walk away from whatever is left on the ground and let the brass pickers do their thing. Because scrounging for a round during or after a stage is simply never worth risking a DQ by sweeping people or dropping a gun.

 

If we finally pass this rule change, when newer shooters inevitably ask if it is ok to go for a dropped round, the answer we give them will still be in line with what we want them to do. "You can, but you shouldn't because there is no benefit to it and only risk of a DQ if you mess up, so just leave them." Then there will be no more need to go through the whole litany of why you can't use a round that lands on the table right in front of them, or a round that falls out of the gun into their hand... because they can. And common sense will prevail.

Common sense?? At a cowboy match???? You must be Crazy!!!!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TG's ...... It's a conflict of interest for you to weigh in personally regarding TG Agenda items.

 

Since when did becoming a TG negate my right to give my opinion on a subject? That's preposterous!

 

As to the original question....NO...Never......

 

Stan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm headed to the range. I will make it happen! :D Will be happy to report back that I saw someone break the 170 rule while picking up a SG shell off the ground, table, or anything else I can find. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I saw Adam Cartwright sweep the cameraman once picking up a dropped rifle round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I saw Adam Cartwright sweep the cameraman once picking up a dropped rifle round.

on the clock?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, the rule did not exist for many years in cowboy shooting.

 

I shot for many years before the rule and don't recall any problems.

 

I do sometimes see people automatically reach for the round when it falls on a table etc. (Except for having to break their train of thought to NOT pick it up and use it) no problems.

 

Breaking their train of thought however is decreasing the safety margin a little bit.

 

I know some honestly believe they are helping safety by adding such rules, but generally addition "preemptive measures" only cause more confusion and thus reduce safety.

Remember that confusion is not increasing the margin of safety.

 

This is a rule that is not directly safety related any more than having the shooter lean over to pick up their long guns, so I vote that we do away with the rule.

 

Or should we ban shooters from leaning over to pick up their long guns?

curious,,,, when did the dropped round rule come into existence and was it passes as present rules are (2/3 vote)?

thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

, but THE EFFECT is to unversally erode safety barriers that protect us all.

 

 

 

It's a rule to keep us from breaking a rule :wacko: When I go over to play Wild Bunch (where it is allowed) I don't all of a sudden become that much smarter or safer. Never seen anyone break the 170 picking up a dropped round or mag.....PLEEEEEEASE get rid of it ;) Good Luck :)

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I've heard of one from a friend who din't want to put it on here... shooter jacked two out of rifle, loaded one over the top then fumbled the next as he was trying to load it before firing the first one, he put the butt of the rifle on the ground, it was cocked and loaded, and pointed at the TO....

 

bad mojo!!!! however, he did it and it was against the rule... hopefully he got the mdq he deserved.

 

I wasn't there, but I stand within arms reach and will close in closer in these situations and try to anticipate the shooter's actions,, maybe I could have stopped him, don't know....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SASS has it's rules.

Wild Bunch has their rules.

 

This question is on SASS rules on the SASS forum.

What the Wild Bunch does and their rules are irrelevant here.

 

If you want to shoot by Wild Bunch Rules, go shoot Wild Bunch.

 

It annoys me when this cross over crap shows up.

 

My position on the 170 rules is I agree.

The dropped round, I don't care one way or the other.

I will not pick up a dropped rounds because experiences tells me it's faster to go to the belt, where I know the round is, to replace a dropped round.

-------------------

Mis Allie Mo .....

if you think I should be removed for my comments, I understand.

This is so much like someone coming to this country and complaining about the USA laws and wanting them change for them.

Most here will say something like, If they don't like our USA laws and rules, go back to where the laws are to your liking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

 

I've never seen someone break the 170 picking up a round.

 

I do remember once over 10 years ago, I absent mindedly picked up a SG shell off a table. Then, I realized what I'd done. After the stage, I tried to argue with the TO and one counter to get my MSV. They said it was a no call as it wasn't on the ground and did not give the MSV to me. :blink: Since then, the rule has grown even longer :o with the exception for placing a round and dropping it back where it was staged.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes you can..............under the current rules it is a MSV.

 

If the shooter uses that round and hits the appropriate target it is a HIT!

But counts as a miss which makes a +15 second hit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But counts as a miss which makes a +15 second hit.

you may want to read up on that!!!

 

an illegal round used is counted as a miss, and a P and time spent,,, in the above case it wasn't an illegal round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But counts as a miss which makes a +15 second hit.

Just one more example of why this redundant rule needs to go away

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the rationale in Larsen's reply, above, the Original Topic subject line is simply not relevant; it's a smoke screen.

 

It is not rational to argue for the repeal of the dropped round rule(s).

 

These rule-changer types are bad for this sport. It is especially evregious to assault the rules that SASS built in as safety nets, such as the dropped round rule. EVERYONE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT the proposal to abolish the the dropped round rules ONLY benefit a tiny percentage of the shooter population, but THE EFFECT is to unversally erode safety barriers that protect us all.

 

Vote no to abolishing the dropped round rule

Be sure you instruct your TG that he represents you and not himself or his cronies.

 

TG's ...... It's a conflict of interest for you to weigh in personally regarding TG Agenda items.

By that rationale, the dropped round rule should never have been implemented. I believe that it was incorporated with very nearly the current wording in the 1995 SHB, (could have been 1992). The Chicken Littles apparently carried the day.

 

Hey, it used to be legal for the RO to hand you a round to replace one you'd fumbled... maybe we shouldn't have changed that! Why you have to take one hand off your long gun to accept it, and then feed it into the action. Clearly, the possibility exists to lose control of the muzzle. Let's just say that "TWO hands must be on all guns at all times when they are being used." That should ensure muzzle control... right? So, we never should have instituted Duelist or Gunfighter shooting styles... Controlling a handgun with one hand is a hazardous affair... and doubling that by having one in each hand simultaneously is... yep, doubly so! Where did the previous rule requiring the trigger finger be outside the trigger guard before the gun was 45º downrange go? That used to be a very sacrosanct safety rule. As it is in many other shooting disciplines... to this day... but SASS determined it was of minor consequence if your finger was on the trigger as you drew the gun from leather.

 

No, forgive me pointing it out, but your argument falls right into that line of thinking. It's a logical conclusion that could be extended from your position.

 

Let me point out that no persons were harmed in the years prior to the passage of this superfluous rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.