Ace_of_Hearts Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Are there any of those fine smokie powders that will work reliably in 38/357 ruger vaqueros ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I have had ZERO issues with APP in my Ruger Vaqueros. I have been using 3F APP loaded to just below the bullet base when seated. Nice easy recoil and no issues taking down KDs with 125 gr LTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peddler Parsons SASS # 31281 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 +1 for APP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 My son uses a full case of Goex FFg in his .357 Vaqueros without issue. 125gr badman bullets for now then switching to Ringers Bullets. We have loaded with APP in the past but it just ain't the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 APP or 777 in FFFg or FFg ( I use magnum primers with FFg) is good. Neither requires bullets nwith lube for BP. Very consistent and reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Nothing like some real Black Powder (ACBP) for your shooting needs!! Once you get your system down, you can shoot the same pistols without any other changes besides your cleaning procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I use a case full of FFFg KIK in 38 Specials behind a 105 gr big lube bullet. Works well. I'm a recent convert to SPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 +1 for APP Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Been using GOEX fffg in my .38 rifle and pistols for 15 years with no problems. The 1cc by volume requirement makes it easy to do. Just fill the case to just at the depth of the seated bullet, seat and shoot. No fillers, no muss, no fuss. Just clean after shooting and keep everything lubed. As far as bullets go, the bigger/more lube grooves, the better. And use SPG lubed for best results. Ah the sound of the TO and spotters hacking and coughing while you're shooting is the best sound in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken D Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I use a 38 special case for a dipper to fill my 357mag case of fffg 777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August West, SASS #45079 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Shutzen and Goex FF or FFF work great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dal sackett Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Wife shoots .38 specials. I load a 125 gr RNFP (from get loaded bullets)over 1 cc 3F APP and .3 cc grits filler. Have had NO issues. Very consistent load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 All the Rugers I've had needed the barrel/cylinder increased. It was tiny & you could not even get 5 rounds thru the gun without binding. Probably no issue with APP, but gotta be fixed for real BP --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 3F Goex works just fine. Fill the case with powder, till the bullet compresses the powder about 1/16" when seated. Firm roll crimp and enjoy. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 All the Rugers I've had needed the barrel/cylinder increased. It was tiny & you could not even get 5 rounds thru the gun without binding. Probably no issue with APP, but gotta be fixed for real BP --Dawg +1 My wife's Rugers won't run two stages without binding with any of the subs except APP. With APP they with run six stages reliably. (I clean them after six stages just because I consider it prudent.) I shoot 777 through my Rugers with success but the fouling is noticeably greater. I would avoid Pyrodex due to the need for BP-lubed bullets. (However I do shoot Pyrodex in shotgun shells.) Real BP is wonderful if it works in your Rugers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 All the Rugers I've had needed the barrel/cylinder increased. It was tiny & you could not even get 5 rounds thru the gun without binding. Probably no issue with APP, but gotta be fixed for real BP --Dawg Never an issue with my wife's Rugers. They are heavily lubed with Bore-Butter. Bbl to cyl gap is .005" on both. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 If you are looking to dip your toes in the water, APP is a very easy transition from smokeless. 777 is a close second as to ease of changing over. I have used both of these as well as real bp and Pyrodex and all were reliable in my NRVs. As said above the biggest change was to the cleaning procedure. Hope this helps, Smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Haller Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Hi Ace, Prairie Dog has it right; the problem isn't the powder so much as the barrel cylinder gap on the Rugers; this can vary and some will work fine and others need adjustment; you'll find out when you try it. Bore butter on the cylinder pin (lots) also helps, along with prepping the gun with straight ballistol first. If you're thinking of trying black, me and IB would be happy to assist you (we normally use Goex real black powder.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 My Rugers will usually run 6 stages using APP with no issues. I lube the base pins with Mobil1 grease and the rest of the gun with Ballistol. Occasionally I will experience a little binding that is easily cured by spraying the face of the cylinders with Ballistol and then wiping them down with a lint free cloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 A bunch of folks missed the whole point of the question. Smoky powders that work well in Ruger Vaqueros. The answer that XXX works real well in 38 cases with xyz bullet doesn't address the real problem. Rugers don't necessarily play well with BP or Subs. The problem is the base pin bushing (lack there of) and very tight Barrel/Cylinder gap that causes binding as the day wears on. Most Rugers that came into the shop for BP problems suffered from too tight Barrel/Cylinder gap which needed to be opened up a bit, squared and polished. In some guns, it may be necessary to remove the cylinder between stages and wipe down the cylinder face. I would actually suggest that. Ruger, in their infinite wisdom, if contacted about incompatibility with BP, will tell you bold face, Rugers were never designed for BP. Go Figure. So, for Ace of Hearts: Only way you will find out the answer for YOUR guns, is to load up and see what happens. Your best starting point is APP. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Graham, # 26112 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 It also depends on where you are and the weather conditions. Mine run fine in muggy New England for 6 stages without having to do anything but load and shoot. In dryer Arizona, I need to add a little Bore Butter after 2 or 3 stages. So take some with you and if you notice even the tiniest bit of crankiness from your guns, do it before the next stage. Don't wait until they are in impossible crud lockup to deal with it. I do the "corners" inside the cylinder window and a little on the face of the cylinder itself before I leave for the match. That might be it for the day and it might not, depends on where I am and what the humidity is that day. The AMOUNT of crud is not the issue, the HARDNESS of the crud is what matters. Keep it soft and smeary and you will be fine as it just mushes out of the way every time you pull the trigger. Opening up the gap will let you accumulate some additional hard crud before lockup but then that makes cleaning a big PITA as you still have a bunch of hard crud to deal with. Keep it soft and the whole day - including the cleanup - is easier and faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Are there any of those fine smokie powders that will work reliably in 38/357 ruger vaqueros ? Absolutely! Goex Skirmish #3 from Powder Inc. Is a blasting powder and really smokes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 All the Rugers I've had needed the barrel/cylinder increased. It was tiny & you could not even get 5 rounds thru the gun without binding. Probably no issue with APP, but gotta be fixed for real BP --Dawg This is why I asked the question. I did not wish to modify my revolvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 ACH-What BP gun lube are you using? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarillo Rattler Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I use a case full of FFFg KIK in 38 Specials behind a 105 gr big lube bullet. Works well. I'm a recent convert to SPG. I'll second that, though I use a much cheaper lube. It is 2 parts paraffin, 2 parts mutton tallow and 1 part bees wax. Good in hot conditions and leaves an nice lube star at the 24" muzzle of a 44-40 '73. The Vaquero barrels are clean with the 1st patch after water rinse and nylon brush scrub. I would caution use of "BP compatible" lubes. Once had a completely fouled 20" barrel after 5 stages. AR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarillo Rattler Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 All the Rugers I've had needed the barrel/cylinder increased. It was tiny & you could not even get 5 rounds thru the gun without binding. Probably no issue with APP, but gotta be fixed for real BP --Dawg Long Hunter set the gap on my NMV at .008". After 2 or 3 stages I wipe the cylinder faces with a Baby Wipe, though I've never experienced any binding when I forgot. AR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 ACH-What BP gun lube are you using? OLG I am just pondering the idea of shooting B-Western the right way. With smoke coming out of the barrel and a boom instead of a bang. Never saw a B-Western movie where they shot smokeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I am just pondering the idea of shooting B-Western the right way. With smoke coming out of the barrel and a boom instead of a bang. Never saw a B-Western movie where they shot smokeless. I can't recall seeing any western where they shot smokeless powder. I'm sure they are out there, but I can't think of any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Haller Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Hi Ace, Not all Rugers need something done to them to run BP without problems; most of mine did not need anything other than a good prep with Ballistol and Bore butter. They will run six stages out here in the dry heat without a hitch, and that includes 44-40, 38-40 and 45 colt (also straight wall like your 38's). Give it a try; BP can add a new dimension of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I am just pondering the idea of shooting B-Western the right way. With smoke coming out of the barrel and a boom instead of a bang. Never saw a B-Western movie where they shot smokeless. Use Bore Butter and Eezox and you'll be fine. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Hi Ace, Not all Rugers need something done to them to run BP without problems; most of mine did not need anything other than a good prep with Ballistol and Bore butter. They will run six stages out here in the dry heat without a hitch, and that includes 44-40, 38-40 and 45 colt (also straight wall like your 38's). Give it a try; BP can add a new dimension of fun. +1 I have 2 pair of New Vaqueros in .357 that run BP just fine. I did have a pair of .45 New Vaqueros that needed the cylinder gap widened to make it through a match; but would run 2 stages by wiping off the cylinder face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollifer A. Dollar Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 All the Rugers I've had needed the barrel/cylinder increased. It was tiny & you could not even get 5 rounds thru the gun without binding. Probably no issue with APP, but gotta be fixed for real BP --Dawg +2 on this one. First pair of Vaqueros I got (45s) had cylinder gaps so tight they would bind up after firing 1 round of FFG Goex. Opened the gaps to a loose 8 thousandths & haven't had any issues with them at all. Just got a pair of SASS Vaqueros for Kay Sadeeya to use, made sure the gaps were 8 thou. She used them yesterday, 6 stages, nary a problem using FFFG Goex in 38 Short Colt cases with 125 gn LRNFP bullets. Holler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Use Bore Butter and Eezox and you'll be fine. OLG I'm sure it is great advise..... You might want to explain to a nimrod how and where to use Bore Butter. Everything I read is regarding muzzle loaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I'm sure it is great advise..... You might want to explain to a nimrod how and where to use Bore Butter. Everything I read is regarding muzzle loaders. Cyl ratchets/pawl. Cyl pin(lots)front of cyl. Pivot point on cyl loading gate. Along the side of the hammer. I can run 6 stages in the desert dry with little issue. Slop the BB all over the inside of your rifle and SG. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I have 2 pairs of NMV's and 2 pairs of OMV's they all get shot with real BP only and do not have any problem going 6 stages. My wife has used her 32 H&R mag single sixes for BP and had no problem. My calibers are 44/40 and 45 Colt. I use homemade lube beeswax parafin and deer tallow I have no problem in AZ or a more humid climate. The BP I use is Schuetzen. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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