Sergeant Smokepole #29248L Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You try to pass along your knowledge and skills to younger people. A couple nights ago, I was by my daughter and my 8 and 5 year old grandsons tried sparring with me. I didn't want to discourage them so I got down on my knees to limit my mobility and reach. I was teaching them the difference between soft and hard blocks, sweeps, blocks, penetrating defense, but no kicks... My wife and daughter just about had a kitten. "Don't teach them that stuff! You'll make them aggressive and dangerous! We don't want them turning out like you!" I turned to them both and said "You are the one that enrolled them in Karate. I noticed that you didn't mind me being dangerous when I kept the wolves away from you and kept both of you safe." I then asked them both if I was such a horrible monster that you are ashamed of me." I walked out of the house and walked 3 miles back home. So far, neither one of them has said a word to me and I see no apologies in the near future... I just had a flashback from when I returned from Viet Nam.... XXX? I spent my entire life protecting others as well as those that I love and now this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Maybe that is the problem with the world today, Sergeant. Too many folks want to be safe and don't want to take the steps to protect themselves. I'm with you. Teach the youngsters that life is good but it isn't always safe and fun. I think you deserve an apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Making them understand probably ain't gonna happen and wasn't the deal when you signed on the dotted line. Maybe someday they will. maybe not. Just apologize for going off and hug 'em. FWIW, I know exactly what yo mean though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sarge, as a dad of 5 and a grandpa of 11, from 18 down to 2 years old, here is my advice: Apologize for blowing up, make the peace, and just continue with being a grandpa, including teaching those things as appropriate in place and time. Let them grow in understanding in the fullness of time (the adults as well as the grandkids). Of course, you have nothing to apolgize for. My own axiom is to seek family accord always and above all. My boys were in their 20s before the two of them together could pin me down to the floor. I quit just before that, though, when I saw it coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bama Red Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sarge, is there any possibility that, instead of being dead serious, that there might have been a touch of joking sarcasm in that remark? If not, awful hard to take, coming from family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Just man up and apologize to them. They don't seem to understand from what your post says ~ maybe someday they will.. Hope it all turns out well for ya. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shoer 27979 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sarge, as a dad of 5 and a grandpa of 11, from 18 down to 2 years old, here is my advice: Apologize for blowing up, make the peace, and just continue with being a grandpa, including teaching those things as appropriate in place and time. Let them grow in understanding in the fullness of time (the adults as well as the grandkids). Of course, you have nothing to apolgize for. My own axiom is to seek family accord always and above all. My boys were in their 20s before the two of them together could pin me down to the floor. I quit just before that, though, when I saw it coming! I have to laugh at that Red, I told all of my wife,s and my kids the day they can kick my ass, is the day they can tell me what to do. Out of 6 kids (21years -31years), 3 being Marines and the youngest going into the Navy in the next couple of months, not one of them has taken me up on the challenge yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Fuller Bullspit Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 What is that story about sheep, sheep dogs and wolves? The sheep fear both the sheep dog and the wolf. I'm not saying that your wife and daughter are sheep, just that those that are protected often don't understand the protector and often don't appreciate the role that the protector plays, until they are in danger of course. Just understand that you see the world differently than they do, and it is because of you and people like you that they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sarge Don't hold out for no apology. You won't get one. If nobody's thanked you for serving in Viet Nam lately then let me. THANK YOU. We live in a strange and complex world where it's OK to enroll your kids in Karate classes but heaven forbid they should use it to defend themselves. The only thing you did wrong was being honest and true to yourself. Ya probably ought to temper that just a bit. So's you can still get along. Betcha that 3 mile walk didn't do you no harm though Ride easy, Sarge. Waimea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four-Eyed Buck,SASS #14795 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 That's tough to take, Sarge, especially from family. Lot of unpleasant memories stirred up. I ,for one, appreciate your service and sacrifice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 SS you did NO wrong! My first wife said pretty much the same one time when I was teaching my daughter how to fight back and defend herself. The next night the wife did a "ride-along"(Yeah, the COP signed off on it too)and I never heard another such remark from her. Respectfully, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jake1001 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sorry to hear your troubles Sarge. It reminds me of back when I was in Vietnam and bought a Zippo lighter. I had it engraved with my Name, Vietnam 1970-71 and on the back "For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know" I don't smoke anymore, but will never get rid of the lighter. You've got many more years to teach your Grandsons about life and being a Man. Big Jake P.S. Thanks for you service to the USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Did you see that movie with Jack Nicholson, "A Few Good Men"? Remember the courtroom scene and his monologue about what, in his view, it takes to protect the country? A bit dramatic but some truth in it. Many people don't want to know and don't want to be confronted with it. Having said that, it doesn't pay to have discord in the family. Do what you have to do. All the Marines I remember did what had to be done. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I noticed that you didn't mind me being dangerous when I kept the wolves away from you and kept both of you safe." XXX? I spent my entire life protecting others as well as those that I love and now this? Perhaps unfortunatly, most people take their safety and freedom for granted. This is exactly what the phrase on Big Jake's lighter means. We need to also remember the saying, People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. The fact that this bothers you enough to bring it here to share with us tells me that you're not the monster that they seem to think you are. Most people don't want to know exactly how a cow becomes a hamburger, either. I'm sure that your family loves you, and appreciates what you did, and continue to do. Even if they don't really want to know what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugly, SASS #18106 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sorry ;that happened to you Sarge; you didn't deserve it. I've been fortunate in that my kids and my grandkids understand not to be bullies but also not to be bullied. I taught my daughters and hence my grandkids all about shooting and safety (stress the safety) and there has never been a negative word about any of the lessons taught. Hope things get better. See ya at Bristol, Beloit, Plainfield or wherever. (won't be at St. Jude's this year but I sponsored a new shooter for the shoot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sarge: Forgive and forget. Give your women a hug, tell them that you are sorry for the blow-up, and move on. In most women's hearts is the desire that we can all be kind and loving; that there will be no more violence and war; and they dearly hope that their sons and grandsons will NEVER have to risk death, for any reason. It is an earnest hope, even if it is probably not realistic in the view of most men. My best read is not that they were angry with you, nor ashamed of your service and protection; what you heard were their wishes and dreams for their offspring. You have done what had to be done; you put yourself in harm's way for the protection of others; and there will be a time and a place for you to pass the skills and understanding to your grandsons. Just probably not with the ladies around. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You try to pass along your knowledge and skills to younger people. A couple nights ago, I was by my daughter and my 8 and 5 year old grandsons tried sparring with me. I didn't want to discourage them so I got down on my knees to limit my mobility and reach. I was teaching them the difference between soft and hard blocks, sweeps, blocks, penetrating defense, but no kicks... My wife and daughter just about had a kitten. "Don't teach them that stuff! You'll make them aggressive and dangerous! We don't want them turning out like you!" I turned to them both and said "You are the one that enrolled them in Karate. I noticed that you didn't mind me being dangerous when I kept the wolves away from you and kept both of you safe." I then asked them both if I was such a horrible monster that you are ashamed of me." I walked out of the house and walked 3 miles back home. So far, neither one of them has said a word to me and I see no apologies in the near future... I just had a flashback from when I returned from Viet Nam.... XXX? I spent my entire life protecting others as well as those that I love and now this? Wow, as a father and grandfather I can't imagine a more cutting remark. I have to disagree with previous posters who advised you to apologize. No way in hell I would do that. If I'm wrong I apologize and move on, if not the 'aggrieved' party can kiss my butt running. I can't see what you did that calls for an apology: playing with the grand kids, walking out after a figurative slap in the face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wow, as a father and grandfather I can't imagine a more cutting remark. I have to disagree with previous posters who advised you to apologize. No way in hell I would do that. If I'm wrong I apologize and move on, if not the 'aggrieved' party can kiss my butt running. I can't see what you did that calls for an apology: playing with the grand kids, walking out after a figurative slap in the face? The only reason is because I beleive the Sarge is man enough to understand that they spoke without understanding. He can rise above it, and walking home after an argument might have worried his loved ones (who knows what was said to each too). He never should apologIze for who he is and what he has done as a Marine, yet family is family and he can rise above the fray. But, yeah, that's the good Sarge's call I reckon. and absolutely - THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE SARGE!! GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wow, as a father and grandfather I can't imagine a more cutting remark. I have to disagree with previous posters who advised you to apologize. No way in hell I would do that. If I'm wrong I apologize and move on, if not the 'aggrieved' party can kiss my butt running. I can't see what you did that calls for an apology: playing with the grand kids, walking out after a figurative slap in the face? My advice to apologize stands. They should also apologize but it needs to be explained to them how much their words hurt. Walking out to cool off can be calming in the short run but unless the situation is addressed, things tend to fester. We're not talking about strangers but loved ones. Things need to be discussed and resolved. An apology starts that process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 If I'm wrong I apologize and move on, if not the 'aggrieved' party can kiss my butt running. I can't see what you did that calls for an apology: playing with the grand kids, walking out after a figurative slap in the face? What if you don't know you're wrong? Though that's not the Sarge's situation. Being wrong has little to do with anything in these personal situations. I think Utah Bob is right on. Besides, "I'm sorry" means just that; it doesn't mean you were wrong. (On the other hand, my dad's advice with women was to say, as often as possible in situations of conflict therewith, "you're right; I'm sorry." ) I guess telling your wife and daughter to "kiss my butt running" might make them think they were right after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 My advice to apologize stands. They should also apologize but it needs to be explained to them how much their words hurt. Walking out to cool off can be calming in the short run but unless the situation is addressed, things tend to fester. We're not talking about strangers but loved ones. Things need to be discussed and resolved. An apology starts that process. +1 +1 +1 LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Smokepole #29248L Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 The fact that I taught both of my kids how to defend themselves, both with weapons and bare hands is the real kicker. Plus, my daughter married a Cop and he is on our SWAT Team. And those comments were not said in jest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The fact that I taught both of my kids how to defend themselves, both with weapons and bare hands is the real kicker. Plus, my daughter married a Cop and he is on our SWAT Team. And those comments were not said in jest. Being in a cops family I would ask them this straight up....."WTH were you talking about, did you even think before you said that?"......... You have to find the hidden reason(s) for their remarks...... BUT, I still say YOU didn't do anything wrong! Respectfully, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rusty Bore SASS#22739 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sorry, but had there been no cutting remark there would not have been a blowup! I see nothing to apologize for on Sarges part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 First of all Sarge a warrior never stops being a warrior. I agree that an apology is necessary but not by you! You put clothes on their backs and food in their bellies by being a warrior, did they object to that? That comment was way out of line and to insult you like that in front of your grandchildren was unpardonable. I applaud your decision to leave and walk home it avoided a situation that the children didn’t need to see. Apologize when you are wrong, but in this case you are not the one that needs to apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 My advice to apologize stands. They should also apologize but it needs to be explained to them how much their words hurt. Walking out to cool off can be calming in the short run but unless the situation is addressed, things tend to fester. We're not talking about strangers but loved ones. Things need to be discussed and resolved. An apology starts that process. Bob and Gunner I respect both of your opinions, even though in this instance I happen to disagree with them. The Sarge's post hits me at a very visceral level. I could never stomach apologizing for who and what I am, not to my wife and most certainly not to my children. I couldn't fault Sarge whatever he chooses to do (walk a mile and all that), but, I know who I am and what I'm about and there isn't a person on the planet I'm not willing to walk away from if they have a problem with that, underage children excepted. Red, Sarge isn't wrong, and clearly they already think they're right, apologizing only vindicates their incorrect opinion. I've been known as someone who tilts at windmills, but also as someone willing to live with the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Sounds good Captain...just seein' it different than ya pard. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finagler 6853 Life Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Sarge: You and I don't know each other very well but from the time I have spent with you, I respect you a great deal and the sacrifices you have made. I would not apologize either for being who I am or who you are. You did what you thought best. You intended no harm or malice (sp?). You did what you thought was a good thing in the best interests of your grandkids. With that being said, if you look at the term, "turn out like you", if may not have been a direct slap at who you are but maybe what your life experiences represent. You have to admit you have a "colorful" past. Maybe your wife and daughter did mean that they didn't want those kids to be like you specifically. It isn't that you are a bad person but you like all of us have flaws. I would hope that they mean they don't want those two "hoodlums" to have your flaws. Please take the bit of tongue and cheek that is intended. I know that there area many times that I do not and have not wanted my kids and my grandkids to turn out like me. I want them to be better. I hope to God that they are so much better than I have been and will ever be. I am human and I need help and guidance every day. Now all that being said, kids need to know when they need to protect themselves but maybe it could wait a few more years. I'd let them be kids as long as they can. We had to grow up way to fast. Maybe we can pass on to them something better. Take care, I'm there for you. Finagler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I'm a military BRAT. The old man was as tough an old sergeant as was ever hatched. Pearl, Pacific for the duration, Korea, Vietnam, the Cold War at NATO nuke commands. I was 50 before I understood how NOT normal I was raised. With due respect; that's what they meant. It's not normal being raised by a warrior. PTSD is a gift that is generationally giving. We know that now. It's not a judgement. It's a fact. Families, kids particularly deal with it on a level that we're just beginning to realize. We don't even have a way to begin treating it yet. Now before all you vets get going... THINK! You're not the only one that served. Your family served AND IS STILL SERVING. When you 'get' that- you'll take a deep breath. You'll take a walk. You did the right thing, SS. Take a walk. Take a deep breath. They're just saying that they want very much for the war that they lived, the war you lived to be over. There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting war to be over. Fanciful? Sure...but, believe me that I know (as you say, Capt Bill) VISCERALLY just what they mean. And I loved the old man with all my heart and wanted all my life to be just as brave as I knew he was. King (the most) RIP (E8-ret. 1910- 2000) PS... he enrolled my brother and I in martial arts when we were 5 and 3. We fought anything and everything at 8 elementary schools, 2 Jr. Highs and 4 high schools and then through college and on to more wives than we deserved each. Take a deep breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 The woosification of America. Nobody is at fault; it is everyone else's fault; apologize for everything, including being born; give nothing but expect everything; no personal responsibility, but expect big brother to be responsible for you. I feel for you, SS. I don't know how we ever survived childhood. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Hawk 60642 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 My family is the same as you'res Sarge. IMHO, if it wasn't for folks like us, folks like them would be in a prison cell right now. They need only to know that you (we) studied and fought war so they would not have too ! :FlagAm: Keep you're head up, and walk with pride. You are teaching these kids how not to be picked on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bama Red Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thanks for clearing that up, Sarge. Now that I know they were serious, I'll answer. I'm of two minds about the apology. You did nothing to apologize for. "Never apologize - its a sign of weakness." - John Wayne as Capt. Nathan Brittles, in "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon". But, an apology can open doors now closed and start the conversations that need to take place. Maybe you just tell 'em you hope no one was scared by your session with the grandkids, and them hand all the adults a copy of this: John Connor Good luck, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Bob and Gunner I respect both of your opinions, even though in this instance I happen to disagree with them. The Sarge's post hits me at a very visceral level. Me too. I could never stomach apologizing for who and what I am, not to my wife and most certainly not to my children. I am not suggesting he apologize for what he is. I couldn't fault Sarge whatever he chooses to do (walk a mile and all that), I did not fault him; only suggested what to do now to reach an outcome that will be a healing one but, I know who I am and what I'm about and there isn't a person on the planet I'm not willing to walk away from if they have a problem with that, underage children excepted. Red, Sarge isn't wrong, and clearly they already think they're right, apologizing only vindicates their incorrect opinion. I've been known as someone who tilts at windmills, but also as someone willing to live with the consequences. My poor communications skills have led some to misinterpret my feelings on this. I will step back from things now. Sarge, I hope things work out for the best for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamity Kris Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 S.S., I feel your pain. It is evident in your posts. As far as whether to apologize or not, that is a call only you can make. They are your family and you know them better than anyone here does. It's apparent there are some communication issues. Somehow that line needs to be opened. You need to understand the basis of their remarks and they need to understand how much they hurt you. The only suggestion I can make is to actively find a way to open that line of communication. I'm sure when the time is right, you will find a way. Please, for your own sake, don't let the silence remain. The pain and hurt for all involved will continue to fester until it becomes too much for anyone to bear. I will keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEAD BANE, SASS 70197 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 To hell with the sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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