Howlin Mad Murdock SASS #4037 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Submitted for your perusal. A very sharp young man serving in our Armed Forces, residing in a neighboring state. Said young man entered in a (very popular that fills up right away) multiple day Major Match months in advance. The time for the match was nigh and yet the young man is given little notice that he will be required to perform his sworn duty on the first day of the match. The young man will be able to make the second day of the match after driving through the night. Special dispensation for him to compete has been requested. As an official representative of the Major Match with decision making authority do you: 1) Explain that we cannot allow any special dispensations of any kind and issue a refund. 2) Explain that we cannot allow any special dispensations of any kind and we will only allow the young man to shoot during his previously assigned posse schedule, forsaking the first day of competition. 3) Allow the young man to shoot through all stages beginning the morning of the second day. 4) Allow the young man to shoot with his assigned posse on the morning of the second day, and join another posse to finish the remaining stages in the afternoon. It was submitted that the young man be allowed option 4, knowing that driving all night, and shooting all day would certianly not allow him peak performance, but to participate fully and allow his performance to be recorded for posterity. What was allowed by the powers-that-be in said Major Match was option 2. It has been published policy not to allow shoot-throughs at this match, as it could be a possible competitive advantage. The young man joined his assigned posse on the morning of the second day, competed, never said a discouraging word, and fun was had by all. But alas, no chance for fame or glory for our honorable young man on that field of battle on that day. I will withhold my opinion for now, but would like to hear what the fine Ladies and Gentlemen on the SASS Wire think of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 "published policy to not allow shoot-throughs at this match", that about sums it up. Not my opinion but was stated beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitmaster, SASS #78461 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 He sure as hell should get the "Spirit of the Game" award. The match officials should get the idiot award. I would rant more but I'm posting on my Android. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitmaster, SASS #78461 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 He sure as helll should get the "Spirit of the Game" award. The match officials should get the idiot award. I would rant more but I'm posting on my Android. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I know a lot of shoot throughs can be a pain, but, if the young man would like, the Option 4. No question. If someone thinks this is a competitive advantage, then they need to... well never mind. It gives me faith in this country's future that there are young men such as these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mean gun mark Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 If I were the said MD. I would thank him for his service and due to the circumstances offer the option to shoot thru. Wish him god speed and a free shoot the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Well, Options 3 or 4 would have been great. Military personnel have very limited control over their "vacation" time. As I understand it, his leave was approved for the period of the shoot, then changed by the Chain of Command. This isn't someone who couldn't get outta school because of mid-terms or the "boss" made me work late. I was not happy with the decision made, still not. To me this is a special case and could/should have been dealt with differently. My two cents, Barry Sloe U.S. Navy Chief Warrant Officer, Retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Those who serve, in my opinion, garner very little for what they give (and often risk). I think it would have been appropriate to give back a little with option 4 in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I know a lot of shoot throughs can be a pain, but, if the young man would like, the Option 4. No question. If someone thinks this is a competitive advantage, then they need to... well never mind. It gives me faith in this country's future that there are young men such as these. Ditto! Whatever it takes to let him shoot the entire match should be an option. This shoul be a friendly game. It saddens me that folks are getting so rigid about things. Watch out, there may be a rant coming when I recover from my latest adventure. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge'm All Duncan, SASS#67320 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 No matter what he should get to shoot thru!!! If he wants to come shoot with us in May at the Round Up at River Bend I will let him shoot Thru and SHOOT for FREE!!!!! I think Match Directors do get some influence on their match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 The original poster is sympathetic to the young man, and that is understandable. And I do not disagree with those who want to cut him some slack. But, now suppose you have a not so sharp young or old man, who is not a serviceman, who was not able to attend the first day. As a match director, do you try to evaluate the reason for his absence and make a judgment for a possible exception, or do you follow the published rule of no shoot-throughs? You see, making exceptions to a rule is unfair to those who did not get to take advantage of the exception. Enforcing a rule is at least equally unfair to everyone. I do not envy match directors. I will never be one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Ditto to reply #5,#6 and #8 Then Mr. Match Director... Stand up, salute him.. and tell him.. "Go ahead young man.. shoot through.. and thank you for your service.." Some rules are made to be broken.. Rance Thinkin' they don't see the big picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 ...whut Allie Mo (no "e") said... This sport has to be a friendly game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Fuller Bullspit Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 He would get a shoot through at my match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Give him his option of #3 or #4, then shake his hand and thank him. It's a game, and if anyone thinks shooting through is a competitive advantage they ain't never had to do it. 3) Allow the young man to shoot through all stages beginning the morning of the second day. 4) Allow the young man to shoot with his assigned posse on the morning of the second day, and join another posse to finish the remaining stages in the afternoon. Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D.Ironsmith Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 For those in the Military... whateverit takes to make it work... they do not have the control of their life... it is obligated to serving their Country (us)! For anyone else (those of us, living in the comforts of civilian life) follow the rules... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Have been in the position to make decisions like this. Alas, there's a reason some matches do not allow "shoot throughs" or changes to the assigned schedule because of...well, you can figure it out. Only takes one pard to go and take advantage and spoil it for the rest of us. Not saying I agree with that policy, only that I understand why match directors and such would enact such rules. That having been said Under the circumstances described, I would have a difficult time sticking to the above policy in this case. There are exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I'm not a match director or shooting official of any kind but I am a patriotic American who happens to think we a great deal of gratitude to those serving in our armed forces. If his leave, vacation, R&R or days away were changed by those in command then the very least we could do is to try and accommodate his changed schedule. If it's a shoot through or some other accommodation I think he should be accommodated. Just the view from an unofficial non-match official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Give him the shoot through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 DD, are ya gonna make exceptions for the shooter that had to go to a funeral for one of his close relatives on Saturday and was unable to attend on that day? Could he shoot thru on Friday? How bout the ole man that had registered months ago, but on his way down, had a flat tire and hurt his back changing it and unable to shoot on Friday but would like to shoot thru on Saturday? And then the lady shooter that had trouble finding a babysitter for the weekend, but found one for Saturday only? Could she shoot thru on Friday? If ya are gonna make exceptions for one, how do ya justify not including everyone? Chances are the military man himself didn't ask for special treatment. Flame away if ya wanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al OVERA, SASS#26238 Life Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 A situation like this, with a "decision" like this really Pi$$es me off. If it weren't for folks like him, the A--hole running the match wouldn't be having a match. He would live in a hell hole wishing he had someone to cover his sorry butt while some one is trying to shoot it off!!! The pard should have been given ANY consideration necessary to accomodate him, AND he should have been given his entry fee back as well, as a thank you. I have been in, served my time, and can tell anyone that is interested, while in the services, your life is NOT your own to control. MHO, and end of rant. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Denny, SASS #64775L Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I’ll try and keep this response civil. A member of the military is someone who voluntarily wrote a blank check made payable to “The People of the United States” for any amount including his or hers life to protect us and our country. It’s a testament to the character of this young man that he abided by the, in my opinion wrong, decision of the Match Director. My Lord, if we can’t take care of those fine young men and women who give their all for us and our country then we are not worth their sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I am a details person, while I have never been involved in a large match other than to attend it, I can see many of the many details that go into planning and carrying out such a match, and know that there are countless others that I don't notice. While I do sympathize with the young man's plight, and agree that if any situation deserves special treatment his does, I also understand the position that the match officials took in this case. Policy was clear and published well ahead of time, and followed. And making an exception in one case opens the gates for even more requests. While handling shoot thru requests on a case by case basis might sound like the fairest way to handle it, in reality multiple match officials might be making the call and there would likely be cases where there were bad feelings because one request was granted and another declined. Following published policy is the only fair way to handle it. To the young man involved I thank you for your service and admire the way you handled it. That's the view from my saddle. Grizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 DD, are ya gonna make exceptions for the shooter that had to go to a funeral for one of his close relatives on Saturday and was unable to attend on that day? Could he shoot thru on Friday? How bout the ole man that had registered months ago, but on his way down, had a flat tire and hurt his back changing it and unable to shoot on Friday but would like to shoot thru on Saturday? And then the lady shooter that had trouble finding a babysitter for the weekend, but found one for Saturday only? Could she shoot thru on Friday? If ya are gonna make exceptions for one, how do ya justify not including everyone? Chances are the military man himself didn't ask for special treatment. Flame away if ya wanna. Would never flame someone over a difference of opinion! We can certainly disagree about something and still ride together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Before getting on the "rules is rules' train, ask yerself what would happen if some CELEBRITY type went and signed up, had a conflict, called and said "I can make day two, anything ya can do for me on shooting the whole match?" Mebbe it wasn't a celebrity per se, but yer "presenting sponsor" or ole Tex? Would ANY club have sand enough to stick to the rules? Ya know danged well what would happen. Give a young man caught between his love and his duty a flippin break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 No doubt about it. Only valid answer is either option 3 or option 4. The club should do what ever it takes to permit active duty members to participate as fully as possible. MD should be given a carry forward MDQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Nathan C. Riddles, SASS # 7462 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 It can be published in advance that the only exception to the no shoot through rule will be for active duty military, or for activated reservists or national guardsmen. Activated members of the guard or reserves will have to show a copy of their orders. Active duty personnel must present their ID to the MD. If I remember correctly active military have a green/white ID while guardsmen & reservists are issued red/white IDs. All active duty military personnel and their spouses and minor children should shoot free. Heaven knows the loss of those fees won't hurt those clubs and it just might get them a lot of positive PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 option #4 is not technically a shoot through and should have been the only option! we all know what a shoot through is; the guy who shows up on your stage, shoots, collects his brass and moves on. adding this young man to a posse for the entire shift allows him the opportunity to finish the match and do his posse duties. additional note: this is a service man and we are at war! special compensation earned. CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty pete Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 To whom it may concern,While I am aware that your major match is very important and as a request has been made for this young man please take the following for what its worth 1 Beacause of folks like him we have the freedom to so activties that others dont like shooting. 2 Because of folks like him we are speaking english this list could go on for a long time,but I will keep it short.Why is it so easy to thank our babysitter or the waiter or waitress ect.ect. but we just cant thank a vet.To all of you who have or are now protecting this great country THANK YOU so much I love each and every one of you. Your Pard Lefty Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCatcher Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 The original poster is sympathetic to the young man, and that is understandable. And I do not disagree with those who want to cut him some slack. But, now suppose you have a not so sharp young or old man, who is not a serviceman, who was not able to attend the first day. As a match director, do you try to evaluate the reason for his absence and make a judgment for a possible exception, or do you follow the published rule of no shoot-throughs? You see, making exceptions to a rule is unfair to those who did not get to take advantage of the exception. Enforcing a rule is at least equally unfair to everyone. I do not envy match directors. I will never be one. It's a game. It's JUST a game. When it get's to the point that we can't show compassion and generosity to those who need it, we need to get out of the way of those who will. It's a game. It's JUST a frikken' game. If it's more important to be unfair to everyone, count me out. They can have my score, my match fee's, and I'll pick and set for them. Use some judgment, find room for generosity - and remember - NO one is going to lose the Cadillac, no one is going to go home without the winning purse. Not everyone is entitled to such generosity, and there are probably many reasons to not be gratuitous, we can find a lot of rules and reasons to justify such a decision, but we should look for the opportunities, not the excuses. SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 SIGH.... many MD's won't enforce a 170 or award a "P" unless all three spotters and the RO all witnessed it, but a registration violation with a plausible, believable situation? Good thing he wasn't pregnant and his water broke! To those saying an exception would cause a run on excuses... really? You've seen this happen where you shoot? People line up with flat tire excuses, sick aunt, pregnancy, call to war? A couple of years ago because of a horrible business emergency I had to cancel Winter Range at the last moment. The refund wasn't a lot of money, but it meant a lot at the time. Scratch and crew were gracious even though it was past the time to cancel. I was thankful then, but am more thankful now that things have worked out. It doesn't really cost more to treat people the way you'd want them to treat your mom, dad or your son being called to duty, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 To those saying an exception would cause a run on excuses... really? You've seen this happen where you shoot? People line up with flat tire excuses, sick aunt, pregnancy, call to war?It doesn't really cost more to treat people the way you'd want them to treat your mom, dad or your son being called to duty, does it? Polite ain't hard. Sometimes it's damned inconvenient. But, being inconvenienced is what serving in the military is all about. When any of us have an opportunity to lessen that inconvenience, even when doing so inconveniences us, we only show our pettiness when we don't. Been inconvenienced myself, survived the inconvenience, even suffered treatment as tho' I was inconveniencing the rest of the populace... Any member of the military during our little soiree in SEA knows what it was like... and some member of our SASS community just repeated the indignity on a member of our new "all voluntary" forces. Shame on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Harley, #14153 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 "Any fool can follow a rule. I want officers smart enough to know when to break them!" LTG Willard W. Scott Superintendent, United States Military Academy, 1982-1986 I knew General Scott pretty well, and I am quite confident he would have said to break the published rule in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 The pard should have been given ANY consideration necessary to accomodate him, AND he should have been given his entry fee back as well, as a thank you. Al By golly, this is the best answer I've found so far. I agree! Let him shoot and refund his fees for his military service. MD can not give everyone equal fairness all the time, there are exceptions and this is one of them. I fully understand why a MD wouldn't grant special compensations because someones dog was having kittens. LOL> Shooting through for anyone isn't easy nor likely to win them anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 It sure is easy to thank someone for their service nowdays. Everywhere you turn people are thanking the Military and LEO's. And that's a good thing. It's a far cry from our boys returning in the 70's. Don't stop thanking our military or LEO's for their service, they deserve it. But when the opportunity to give a member of our armed forces a little slack because he needs to perform his duty and you don't, your "Thank you" is just lip service. Waimea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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