Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Hello All As we are preparing and planning for the South East Regional I had a couple of questions. There will a be a link below to answer the questions so I can get an accurate response. Long range match is a pretty straight forward fixed or mixed distance question. PCC Side match is a bit more complicated. The question is, shoot a steel which involves knock downs and taking the time to reset knock downs. Additionally no jacketed ammo on static steel and there needs to be a minimum safe distance to avoid splatter issues. The other issue is set up. Or shoot a paper match. The paper match requires pasting the targets, which we have found to take a little less time than resetting knock downs. Also there is no restriction on target distance. No restriction on ammo. My Wednesday set up crew could help out with this. Survey https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DMN7L72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Disregard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 It's pistol caliber carbine. Semi auto weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 PCC is Pistol Caliber Carbine! It is shot with semiautomatic rifles in calibers like 9mm. Some clubs shoot paper targets and allow hardball ammunition. Others shoot steel static and reactive targets. There are stringent safety regulations. A lot of clubs, here in the Southeast offer PCC as part of their program for big matches and one of my home clubs has a monthly match dedicated to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Disregard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 We have Wild Bunch matches and Black Powder matches and Rimfire matches at MANY big SASS matches over on this side of the country! There’s long range rifle AND pistol at some of ‘em! It’s come to be expected that there’s probably going to be a PCC match as well! Nobody is forced to shoot these contests, but it’s another opportunity to shoot! What could be better?? Some of our matches unofficially start on Monday or Tuesday and there’s cook offs, beverage contests, desert contests, liars’ contests, poker games, and stuff like that all week long, as well as a dinner in town one night and nightly entertainment! The shooting is serious, but so’s the party!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 50 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: Im familiar with PCC as it applies to modern firearm nomenclature or competition - just unsure what it has to do with or why it would be a component of a CAS match Some folks just can't get enough shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: Im familiar with PCC as it applies to modern firearm nomenclature or competition - just unsure what it has to do with or why it would be a component of a CAS match. And since the OP referenced the South East Regional - I assumed his question applied to CAS competition. I like modern firearms and competitions - but I don't believe I would attend a CAS match that included modern firearm components. Creeker it is a Side Match. It plainly states that in the title and then again PCC side match. 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 I know of at least two SASS clubs that also hold monthly PCC matches . Both shoot reactive targets with jacketed ammo. Both clubs also do it as a side match during Club Annuals and other big matches. It is quite popular and as others have stated some of us like to get our monies worth and one more side match means that much more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 The Southeast Regional is held at Cavern Cove Competitive Shooting Range. It is a large multi discipline range which holds large matches of all types as do some of the other clubs in the Southeast. There is crossover between disciplines at these clubs so the PCC side matches are common. They're just cowboys who like to rest their thumbs 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 At one of the clubs where I shoot, we occasionally have a side match that includes throwing a hatchet, a knife, a spear/lance, shooting a bow and arrow, and even a muzzle loader! There are also lever action rifles, revolvers, and all three types of shotgun!! Wild bunch uses 1911s and Winchester Model 12s!! Hardly CAS firearms!! Another club occasionally has a gatling gun there for folks to shoot! You pay a fee and you shoot! If it’s safe and fun… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 3 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: I like modern firearms and competitions - but I don't believe I would attend a CAS match that included modern firearm components. I remember people saying the same thing about Wild Bunch. PCC has been shot at some state matches around the southeast for at least the past 5-6 years. It's just a side match shot with semi auto, magazine rifles. Usually 9 mm AR-15 type platforms. It's a stand alone side match like Wild Bunch, Rimfire or the Black Powder match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Well... I'm still going Stolen from Top Gun Maverick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Creeker!! I value your opinion for the most part. Still, it’s just your opinion. I don’t agree with you on this particular subject! The club at North Alabama which hosts the Southeast Regional is a well established and well respected club that consistently puts on a top shelf match. I’ve shot there for nearly twenty years and have, I am proud to say, been a member there! Two other clubs that I have shot at for many years also host state level matches as well as large monthly matches and one of them hosts a match that draws top shooters from every corner of the country for a match described as “The family reunion that you go to because you like the whole family!” These clubs and a couple more that I don’t get to shoot at often enough, CONSISTENTLY have to establish waiting lists because they ALWAYS sell out!! They do that because they’re willing to give the customers what they want!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 The first thing a club MUST do to remain viable is to stay solvent and build membership. As each of you at one time or another has said, this is an entertainment endeavor! In that vein, we have to entertain the clientele. Like any other sports/entertainment business, you have to “put butts in the seats”!! When a goodly portion of your clientele wants to participate in a diversion that doesn’t physically interfere with the actual competition and in fact enhances participation, much like a karaoke contest or some other unrelated activity, you try to provide the venue and the opportunity. The PCC side matches have become very popular at MANY of the matches that I’ve attended. Numerous current and former SASS World Champions have participated in this activity. If it helps get more shooters involved, (and I suspect it could really help draw some of the younger crowd) then it’s good for our game!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 I do kinda’ wish he hadn’t deleted his posts. He’s entitled to his opinion and everyone should have a say. I ain’t always right and neither is anyone else, but it doesn’t hurt to get the perspective of others, even if you don’t agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Lead Pepper Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 I respect Creeker's opinions. I don't agree with them but that's ok. The shooters decide with their time and money whether a match is worth attending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 PCC, side match or not is not for me at a CAS match.. so I won't participate. Others can have their extra shooting opportunity, I'll just sit it out. As far as the attacks, c'mon folks. Everyone has an opinion.. leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliphalet R. Moderator Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 3 hours ago, Lucky Lead Pepper said: Yes... Yes, it did. People should be able to state their opinions without garnering personal attacks. Those, and posts that replied that quoted the remarks, have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 10 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said: PCC, side match or not is not for me at a CAS match.. so I won't participate. Others can have their extra shooting opportunity, I'll just sit it out. As far as the attacks, c'mon folks. Everyone has an opinion.. leave it at that. THAT is the perfect reply!! If you don’t want to participate, for WHATEVER reason, don’t participate!! I don’t shoot Wild Bunch!! My EDC weapon is a 1911 based firearm. It holds 14 rounds! SO! I don’t shoot WB because it goes against my training and practice to shoot five or seven rounds and drop the magazine! I’m more than happy that others participate and enjoy the regimen. BE SAFE! HAVE FUN!! Some have expressed their opinions here with respect and politeness. Others have called for clubs that conduct this type of match to have their matches taken from them and their sanctions rescinded! That kind of comment is neither polite nor respectful! If ya’ don’t wanna play then DON’T! But you shouldn’t try to rain on someone else’s parade!! TKD and the North Alabama Regulators are first class people running a top shelf range and some truly great matches! I’LLSAY NO MORE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Creek Jack Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Dammit,I’m out of popcorn……… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 7 minutes ago, Silver Creek Jack said: Dammit,I’m out of popcorn……… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 5 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said: Others have called for clubs that conduct this type of match to have their matches taken from them and their sanctions rescinded! That kind of comment is neither polite nor respectful! If ya’ don’t wanna play then DON’T! But you shouldn’t try to rain on someone else’s parade!! Here is the problem...scares me to think that some can't see this. What is not polite or disrespectful about having the opinion that running a Side Match that has ZERO connection to CAS should disqualify a club from having the privilege for running a Regional? The atmosphere of a Cowboy Match is important to many. Saying that if you don't like "it", just don't play doesn't change what is actually occurring on the premises...and that can diminish the experience for those that want to be ALL cowboy during those few days. So rather than just point fingers at folks and tell them to ignore what's going on at this SASS CAS event...yeah, it's not Cowboy but if you don't like it just don't play...close yer eyes, how's about trying to be creative and come up with something new involving cowboy guns? Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 I've never heard of a PCC side match. As much as it pains me to say it, I agree with Phantom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 By this same logic, Wild Bunch would never have been allowed as a Side Match either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Changing the match to appease people who never have and most likely never will attend ? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Bob Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 46 minutes ago, DeaconKC said: By this same logic, Wild Bunch would never have been allowed as a Side Match either. Are you referring to the original WB side matches or the current WB matches? But yeah...let's ignore the fact that you're shooting lever guns and 97's. Totally see the reasonable comparison with a Pistol Caliber Carbine... Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 If it doesn't displace other inherently "cowboy" side matches, I've got no problem with it... I don't have the guns, nor the inclination to go out & buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 4 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Here is the problem...scares me to think that some can't see this. What is not polite or disrespectful about having the opinion that running a Side Match that has ZERO connection to CAS should disqualify a club from having the privilege for running a Regional? The atmosphere of a Cowboy Match is important to many. Saying that if you don't like "it", just don't play doesn't change what is actually occurring on the premises...and that can diminish the experience for those that want to be ALL cowboy during those few days. So rather than just point fingers at folks and tell them to ignore what's going on at this SASS CAS event...yeah, it's not Cowboy but if you don't like it just don't play...close yer eyes, how's about trying to be creative and come up with something new involving cowboy guns? Phantom There is such a match were all non-Cowboy vendors, guns and side matches are banned. No It called NCOWS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 4 hours ago, DeaconKC said: By this same logic, Wild Bunch would never have been allowed as a Side Match either. I guess all's well that ends well, because Wild Bunch is no longer a "side match." It's another main match, co-equal to CAS. FWIW I am not a PCC person but I think SASS could learn a lot by looking at and incorporating ideas from other shooting disciplines. I am fortunate to have done several before I settled on SASS. If steel challenge shoots static steel with a PCC, then it can be done safely. I would choose a steel over paper match all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusty Knees Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Going back to the original question about Steel vs. Paper. I don't know anything about Pistol Caliber Carbines or the AR platform. But, since most of us reload, will these guns work with lead bullet cartridges at <1,000 fps? If yes, why not set it up like a regular stage, at whatever distances you want? Those who don't reload could use Federal Synthech Frangible ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 I think I missed some of the more ‘interesting’ posts. Some of us are fine with shooting a PCC side match, some have no interest, some won’t attend because modern guns being shot ruins their cowboy experience and some not only won’t attend but think clubs that include PCC side matches should have their major match contract cancelled. Have I got the various opinions right? If I had the time to get involved with PCCs I would be in the first group, but I don’t, so I’m in the second group. I’m mildly interested but don’t have the time to play with PCCs. My enjoyment of SASS matches isn’t dependent upon what other folks are doing for side matches, what they’re wearing, or anything else that doesn’t directly impact my shooting experience. If I ever get to a point in my life where a PCC side match is important enough to me to affect my decision to attend a major match I’ll count myself lucky not to have bigger things to worry about in my life. Years ago I had a neighbor who got really ticked off at neighborhood kids playing outside in the community. The sound of children laughing interfered with him enjoying reruns on TV… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said: Yadda yadda some other stuff.... Years ago I had a neighbor who got really ticked off at neighborhood kids playing outside in the community. The sound of children laughing interfered with him enjoying reruns on TV… I bet he was watching reruns of Gunsmoke. Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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