Why I miss Trail Boss

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Because, this can't happen...

 

And this certainly can't...

 

Now in all fairness, I have no one to blame but myself for this.  A minimum load of .45 Colt with Win231/HP-38 may seem rather wimpy, but a double charge of it will obviously lead to catastrophic results.   Let my mistakes serve as a warning to be be super careful at the reloading bench, especially when you have switched to something new.

I am pleased to report that neither of my friends who were using these pistols were injured, so thank God for that.  I should have called a halt to our activity after the first failure, but my second friend was already shooting by the time I figured out what had happened.   Needless to say, I immediately told the man running the shoot that all four of us were done.  I was not gonna risk the safety of myself or my friends any further.   (There were four of us, including me)  Everyone on the posse was very gracious and helpfully concerned, and they even suggested a local vendor who had ammo we could use, but at this point, my head was out of the game, and I felt it was wiser to call an end to our participation.  

Now all I gotta do is break down the better part of 2000 rounds of .45 Colt and start over. 

 

Take care, everyone, and I'll see you at the range again sometime.

[Texas Jack Black]

 OUCH! glad no one was hurt. This is why I reload all match ammo and any ammo I share  on a single stage press and weigh the charges with a bar scale.

 

Best wishes

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

3 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 OUCH! glad no one was hurt. This is why I reload all match ammo and any ammo I share  on a single stage press and weigh the charges with a bar scale.

 

Best wishes

 

Sadly, that's how I reload ALL my ammo.   (Well, I use a turret press, but I do measure the powder charge for every cartridge.)  Takes a bit longer, I think, but worth the effort.  I must have measured a charge, dropped it in the case, and then repeated the process without realizing I had done so.   Don't know how I made such a stupid mistake.

 

[Cholla]

WOW! I am sorry to see that. Just be glad it wasn't your AWA Lightning Bolt. I use a Dillon 550 with a RCBS powder check die.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

19 minutes ago, Cholla said:

WOW! I am sorry to see that. Just be glad it wasn't your AWA Lightning Bolt. I use a Dillon 550 with a RCBS powder check die.

 

Or my Dad's Colt, or my Big Iron...    Or that the fellow who had the ASM set up to GI specs didn't lose a finger.

I guess this is a good reminder of how we need to be careful.

[SHOOTIN FOX]

Glad everyone was ok.

 

What was the intended load?

 

45 colt for  me uses 4-5 gr of Promo.

 

curious that a double charge of WST did not overfill the case. Are you sure it was not a squib followed by another round?

 

No blame or fault, just curious?

 

Fox

[Tyrel Cody]

Can't do that with Black Powder either...

 

 

Glad no one was hurt.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Based upon how LOUD the report was, and the fact that nothing is in the barrel, I doubt a squib.

With a 200 grain bullet, the minimum charge is 5.9 grains and the max is 8.0   The 5.9 is very light.   Almost wimpy light, so I upped it to 6.5.   Either one doubled is way over the max.

 

And it doesn't take up very much room in the case.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Started loading with WW231 since 1967.

Been using a Dillon 550 since 1987.

No issues....

Why, it's simple, I don't allow any distractions at all while loading.

Phone OFF, TV OFF, no visitors! 

I may have a radio playing in the background at most.

[Texas Jack Black]

2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Sadly, that's how I reload ALL my ammo.   (Well, I use a turret press, but I do measure the powder charge for every cartridge.)  Takes a bit longer, I think, but worth the effort.  I must have measured a charge, dropped it in the case, and then repeated the process without realizing I had done so.   Don't know how I made such a stupid mistake.

 

 I am glad you are OK.

 

and thank you for posting it reminds us to be cautious it could happen to anyone of us.

I always use a tray ,measure powder and check the tray before I move to the press.

 

Best Wishes

[Sedalia Dave]

I was taught long ago when loading on a single stage press to pour powder into one case at a time and then seat a bullet into that case. If there is any doubt pour out the powder and start over.

 

No matter how careful you are, charging multiple cases in a loading block will bite you sooner or later.  Looking into the case doesn't work as over time your eyes will see what they expect not what is actually there.

The only possible exception to this rule is when the powder charge fills more than 50% of the case volume.

 

BTW Even then I charge one case at a time. 

[Warden Callaway]

It likely can be fixed.  But not cheap rebuilt.  Bill Fuchs at Spring Creek Armory can do this kind of work.

 

You can weigh each loaded cartridge and identify any suspicious overweight cartridges. 

[Sedalia Dave]

3 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

It likely can be fixed.  But not cheap rebuilt.  Bill Fuchs at Spring Creek Armory can do this kind of work.

 

You can weigh each loaded cartridge and identify any suspicious overweight cartridges. 

 

I tried that one time and gave up. Too much variation in the empty case weights ( Multiple head stamps ) combined with the variation in the weights of lubed bullets.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

3 hours ago, Cholla said:

WOW! I am sorry to see that. Just be glad it wasn't your AWA Lightning Bolt. I use a Dillon 550 with a RCBS powder check die.

+1 for the RCBS powder check die.  I doesn't get distracted or forget where the loader is at in the loading sequence.  It doesn't need to remember to be careful.  Over charged or under charged it stops the press.

 

Consider donating the second revolver to a shooting range or sporting goods store that sells reloading supplies.  On display it would be a reminder of what happens when a revolver case is double charged.

[Rip Snorter]

Have only had one issue over the years, and that a combination of machine and attention failure  together.  No great harm.  If interrupted or distracted, I remove all stages from the 550, recycle as needed and start over.  I don't load a great deal anymore or I'd add one of the powder check dies.

[Hoss]

Powder check die on a progressive press is your friend. 
if using a progressive like a D650/750 it’s not impossible to double charge a case, but you would have to work at it. If you do double charge, (or undercharge) the powder check die will catch it. 
 

unless of course you load up a bunch of rounds with the wrong powder and/or charge!

[Burn Through]

just start loading black powder all is well no more kaboom

[Renegade Roper]

4 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Sadly, that's how I reload ALL my ammo.   (Well, I use a turret press, but I do measure the powder charge for every cartridge.)  Takes a bit longer, I think, but worth the effort.  I must have measured a charge, dropped it in the case, and then repeated the process without realizing I had done so.   Don't know how I made such a stupid mistake.

 

Please dont take this the wrong way but you may want to look at your whole reloading process.  All of your ammo was extremely inconsistent (shotgun, rifle and pistol).  You and your 3 friends would have rounds that sounded like they had barely enough powder to leave the barrel and then rounds that sounded like they were double charged in all 3 guns.  The TO stopped one of your friends to check the barrel of his sxs because he wasnt sure the wad had even left the barrel because the round was so light.  Again this isnt meant to be a demeaning comment but there is something more going on than two double charges in the pistols as it was a common theme in all 3 guns.  I just wouldnt want it to happen to you again or someone to get hurt if there's some other issue you need to correct.  You and your 3 friends all seemed like nice pards for the 2 stages we shot together and we all hope you solve this issue and come back.

[Warden Callaway]

1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

I tried that one time and gave up. Too much variation in the empty case weights ( Multiple head stamps ) combined with the variation in the weights of lubed bullets.

Separate the headstamps.  

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

48 minutes ago, Renegade Roper said:

Please dont take this the wrong way but you may want to look at your whole reloading process.  All of your ammo was extremely inconsistent (shotgun, rifle and pistol).  You and your 3 friends would have rounds that sounded like they had barely enough powder to leave the barrel and then rounds that sounded like they were double charged in all 3 guns.  The TO stopped one of your friends to check the barrel of his sxs because he wasnt sure the wad had even left the barrel because the round was so light.  Again this isnt meant to be a demeaning comment but there is something more going on than two double charges in the pistols as it was a common theme in all 3 guns.  I just wouldnt want it to happen to you again or someone to get hurt if there's some other issue you need to correct.  You and your 3 friends all seemed like nice pards for the 2 stages we shot together and we all hope you solve this issue and come back.

This is why I am gonna break everything down and start over.   Something is not right.   All of this ammo is less than 6 months old, and in all the years I've been loading, I've never had such uneven results.   I need to carefully reassess everything.

[watab kid]

that wont happen if your careful in your reloading but then im probably overcautious in this - ive seen a lot of problems over the years - the most expensive that didnt include bodily injury involved a $19000.00 shotgun that cost an additional $15000.00 to fix , good thing the guy had more money than sense in his reloading , 

[Rip Snorter]

4 minutes ago, watab kid said:

that wont happen if your careful in your reloading but then im probably overcautious in this - ive seen a lot of problems over the years - the most expensive that didnt include bodily injury involved a $19000.00 shotgun that cost an additional $15000.00 to fix , good thing the guy had more money than sense in his reloading , 

That sounds like bad math unless it was a family gun or irreplaceable.  New gun, part out the old one.

[Tennessee williams]

10 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

That sounds like bad math unless it was a family gun or irreplaceable.  New gun, part out the old one.

I sold my last Krieghoff for $22,000.00 so the math may not be bad. And forget getting a new one instead of repairing the old one.  Unless you want to pay 3 or 4 times that.

[Rip Snorter]

4 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

I sold my last Krieghoff for $22,000.00 so the math may not be bad. And forget getting a new one instead of repairing the old one.  Unless you want to pay 3 or 4 times that.

Well out of my pay grade for a firearm!

[Tennessee williams]

Just now, Rip Snorter said:

Well out of my pay grade for a firearm!

Mine too. I swindled an older Widow woman out of it by paying her what her husband told her he gave for it.

[Rip Snorter]

5 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

Mine too. I swindled an older Widow woman out of it by paying her what her husband told her he gave for it.

Well, I guess, unless you were raised differently than I was, hope you are joking.

[Three Foot Johnson]

I got a badge when I kaboomed this .38-40. 

Probably a double charge of Clays. Should have been 4.2 grains, so a double charge would have been 8.4 - Hodgdon's listed max is 5.5.

Loaded on a 550, and probably got up to get coffee or telephone or something, came back, and ran the same case back up into the charge die again. If you leave the bench, either run the turntable empty or leave the handle down/ram up. 

 

[watab kid]

28 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

That sounds like bad math unless it was a family gun or irreplaceable.  New gun, part out the old one.

it was a gun the shooter was trying out - thinking to buy , when it happened he was committed to buy then ....he figured it was needed to keep face within the shooting community he travels in , he has the money - it was not the issue  - he couldnt face them all if after buying it damaged he didnt fix it and shoot it , 

i agree bad math , but mostly on his reloads and frugal attitude regarding the paper hulls he reloads well beyond their useful life ....FWIW he has not learned his lesson , he continues down that same path , and at 85 probably will for a couple more years 

[Tennessee williams]

22 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

Well, I guess, unless you were raised differently than I was, hope you are joking.

Obviously. Hence the laugh emoji after my comment. Have you never heard anyone say, "when I die I hope my wife doesn't sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them"?

 

[Equanimous Phil]

7 hours ago, Cholla said:

I use a Dillon 550 with a RCBS powder check die.

another +1 from me!

 

40 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

If you leave the bench, either run the turntable empty or leave the handle down/ram up. 

and +1 !!

 

If you know it's a good round, it's a good round.
If you think it's a good round, it's a bad round.

Don't gamble.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Cowboy45Special cases help with this, as it is even more difficult to double charge with any kind of bulky powder. Doesn't have to be Trailboss. I have 3- 9 oz cans left and hope it will last my wife the rest of her shooting career. Although Unique loaded cases seemed to work well also. My daughter and I shoot BP, so we don't have this problem. 

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

+1 on the distractions. IDK if that is the case here, but I know for me if I'm distracted, I'll pull everything off the 550 and come back later.

I did try the "weigh loaded cartridges" thing with 45 Colts... nope. Too much variation even with same head stamps.

Sorry bout the Colts and am glad no one was hurt. 

[Presidio]

Awful glad no one was hurt.  Real sorry for the misfortune of you irons.

 

Silver lining, lessons learned.

[Mister Badly]

I use Trail Boss to visually verify the powder drop in my .357 cases. I load with a Lee 4 hole turret press. It's slow but I get feedback through the handle on every stage on one round. It helps me catch invisible splits in the sizing and belling stages. When I run out of TB I will switch to Clean shot, Titegroup, or HP38. The visual check will be a smidge more difficult but I wet tumble my cases so they reflect the light I have pointing at the case mouth pretty well. 

[Bison Bud]

It's bad enough that some fine handguns were destroyed here, but as others have already stated, thankfully no one was hurt!  Failures like this can be very dangerous to say the least and although nothing is perfect, steps must to be taken to prevent double charges when rolling your own.  The primary methods used will have to vary with the type of press used, but there are things that can be done.  Some one here earlier mentioned that when using a single stage press it is best to pour powder into a single cartridge and then immediately seat the bullet on it prior to dumping another powder charge.  Trying to fill multiple cases at the same time opens up the odds of double charging, so this makes really good sense!  For those using progressive presses, the most popular way to prevent a double charge is to use a powder check die.  This can be very effective if one has a die position for it and is highly recommended.  However, I personally use a Dillon 550B and it has only 4 positions.  One can still use a powder check die on the 550B, but I like to seat and crimp separately and don't have a position for a powder check die and still do so.  So, as a simple solution, I remove the shell pin from the plate in position 3 (where I seat the bullets) and pull each and every case out and visually inspect the powder charge before putting it back and seating the bullet.  Probably not a perfect solution either and it does slow the loading process down, but I have already caught two double charges that occurred after other press issues came up while loading and have so far prevented any double charges or powderless charges from making it out to the range and I've been doing this for a long time now.  Anyway, I've said this many times before and still find it to be appropriate in that "If you want to shoot fast, it's best to load slow!"  Good luck and good shooting to all.