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EoT Attendance


Captain Bill Burt
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You make a excellent point. I don’t  think I could pull my child out of school for a week. Though many schools no longer have “snow days” as they can do “virtual learning” those days. So I would think they could attend the match and do cyber school on match days. 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/11/2022 at 7:21 AM, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

You make a excellent point. I don’t  think I could pull my child out of school for a week. Though many schools no longer have “snow days” as they can do “virtual learning” those days. So I would think they could attend the match and do cyber school on match days. 

.

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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When the kid can't go, often you loose the parents/grandparents too.  My kids are grown now but we always had a school first policy in our house.   

 

Whoops.  I guess since my kids are grown, that makes me part of the peanut gallery.

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3 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

When the kid can't go, often you loose the parents/grandparents too.  My kids are grown now but we always had a school first policy in our house.   

 

Whoops.  I guess since my kids are grown, that makes me part of the peanut gallery.

Not at all.  That comment was about responses to my 'got me to thinking' statement.  Hard to believe, but the grey matter occasionally still works.

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1 minute ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Not at all.  That comment was about responses to my 'got me to thinking' statement.  Hard to believe, but the grey matter occasionally still works.

Yea, I let that slide.

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44 minutes ago, Beartrap SASS#57175 said:

Call it Winter Range or EOT, but to me it's still the same match put on by the same people at the same time of year that has the highest attendance of any match.

Ok! What does that have to do with my question about attendance by school age shooters?

29 minutes ago, Assassin said:

EOT was held in late April prior to 2006.

 

Same question.

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Since the current version has only existed once I'm not sure that gives you enough data to draw a conclusion.  But in your OP you indicated the current EOT and the previous Winter Ranger are essentially the same match.  If we use all that data I'm still not sure you can draw a conclusion because, as was just said, they're the same match.  Nothing's changed except the name.

 

More to your question though, would they draw more young shooters if the match was held outside of the school year?  In theory this would seem obvious but there's really no way to tell without trying it.  I highly doubt they're going to try since it's sold out pretty much every year.  And the only time to move it that doesn't fall in the school year would be Summer.  My guess is they'd actually lose shooters if they tried to hold a big match in Phoenix in the middle of summer.  All in all I see your point in that we need to do everything we can to attract young shooters.  Not totally sold on this idea though.

 

Speaking of young shooters, I found Mini Me this year. :lol: 

Mini Me.jpg

Edited by Shooting Bull
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Back in the early days of SASS, I attended EOT while living in CA (local to EOT), and Texas, (not local).  I still took my son out of school so he could attend.  There's more than just "school" to provide a kid a well rounded education.  It took a little effort on my part (mostly wife's), to gather what he needed to study while absent to ensure that his school work didn't suffer.   Me and him flew to attend from TX, while Mom drive the travel trailer both directions, so absence was minimal.  Takes a bit of planning and effort, but, seeing him win his category was priceless!  An experience few of us get!

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30 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

Since the current version has only existed once I'm not sure that gives you enough data to draw a conclusion.  But in your OP you indicated the current EOT and the previous Winter Ranger are essentially the same match.  If we use all that data I'm still not sure you can draw a conclusion because, as was just said, they're the same match.  Nothing's changed except the name.

 

More to your question though, would they draw more young shooters if the match was held outside of the school year?  In theory this would seem obvious but there's really no way to tell without trying it.  I highly doubt they're going to try since it's sold out pretty much every year.  And the only time to move it that doesn't fall in the school year would be Summer.  My guess is they'd actually lose shooters if they tried to hold a big match in Phoenix in the middle of summer.  All in all I see your point in that we need to do everything we can to attract young shooters.  Not totally sold on this idea though.

 

Speaking of young shooters, I found Mini Me this year. :lol: 

Mini Me.jpg

Hey, there’s Racen Jasen. A fine young man to posse with. 

Edited by KingSnake
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I'm sure it does hurt the number of school age shooters. 

 

But if my kid was really into SASS and wanted to attend and we could except for school

I would take them out.

 

They let them out for baseball, football, basketball, track, volleyball, drama club. 

You name it and they let them out AND provide transportation to most of all that.

 

So they will let me take mine out for SASS if wanted. 

Just get the lesson plan for him to work on while gone. And make up any work when back.

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1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:

Since the current version has only existed once I'm not sure that gives you enough data to draw a conclusion.  But in your OP you indicated the current EOT and the previous Winter Ranger are essentially the same match.  If we use all that data I'm still not sure you can draw a conclusion because, as was just said, they're the same match.  Nothing's changed except the name.

 

More to your question though, would they draw more young shooters if the match was held outside of the school year?  In theory this would seem obvious but there's really no way to tell without trying it.  I highly doubt they're going to try since it's sold out pretty much every year.  And the only time to move it that doesn't fall in the school year would be Summer.  My guess is they'd actually lose shooters if they tried to hold a big match in Phoenix in the middle of summer.  All in all I see your point in that we need to do everything we can to attract young shooters.  Not totally sold on this idea though.

 

Speaking of young shooters, I found Mini Me this year. :lol: 

Mini Me.jpg

That was someone else.  To me they're different, but what do I know, I've never been to either one.

 

Some are reading to much into my post. I was wandering whether this schedule impacts the ability of younger shooters to attend and thus decreases their participation in EOT.  I didn't advocate anything.  I used to live in Camp Verde.  I understand the weather implications of winter vs summer.


Hearing how others deal with it could be helpful so I certainly welcome that feedback. 

 

As it stands attending EOT would mean missing about a week of school.  No way I would approve that and no way my kid's school would call those absences excused and allow the work to be made up.

 

Best Walter Cronkite voice: "and that's the way it is."

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There is a skill that can be learned at a event of that size that cannot be learned at school, how to interact with people of different ages, nationalities,  etc.

 

I work with lots of highly educated people, but they have no life experience,  and that makes them awkward when interacting with others.

 

I would definitely take my son out of school for something like that.

 

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Just make it known to kids is, if you want to shoot EOT or any match make it a point to do your job by doing your school learning & get good grades. Then you can go shooting. Takes some parenting help to get youngsters to study.

 

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wanted to fly grandson out to EOT last year but parents were the problem. He has real good grades but still a no go due to the Covid flight restrictions at the time

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Just a matrix for you, for EOT's from 15 to 22

 

Year       Buckaroo             Buckarette          Jr Boy    Jr Girl

15           9                            4                            8             8

16           8                            3                            16           10

17           12                          7                            11             6

18           16                          3                            9             5

19           9                            3                            9             5

21           7                            2                            7             3

22           5                            2                            3             3

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As a parent - I pulled Desert Scorpion out of school every year for a week during match setup and shooting for Eldorado.

 

One, she was a great assistant

Two, I always figured that time would teach her about having goals, interacting with various people and the importance of truly putting in the effort to make ideas become reality.  

She sweated and bled with me; went to bed exhausted and sore; and learned about pride of ownership and the satisfaction that comes with a job well done.

 

These (to me) always outweighed whatever minutia or dead history she might have absorbed in that same week sitting in a classroom.

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4 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

 

Some are reading to much into my post. I was wandering whether this schedule impacts the ability of younger shooters to attend and thus decreases their participation in EOT.  I didn't advocate anything.  I used to live in Camp Verde.  I understand the weather implications of winter vs summer.

 

 

 

No way to prove it one way or another but I think it's a very safe assumption to make that yes, holding the match during the school year does have that impact. 

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16 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

These (to me) always outweighed whatever minutia or dead history she might have absorbed in that same week sitting in a classroom.

I agree...but I wouldn't put going to EOT as a prime location to accomplish exposing your kids to an truly educational...real life experience.

 

;)

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1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Thanks!

 

So:

2015 - 29

2016 - 37

2018 - 36

2019 - 26

2021 - Indiana 20

2022 - 13

EOT was in IN in 2021, no EOT in 2020.

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As a teacher I can honestly say that if a child misses school for more than a few days they are loosing out on information that will help clarify test questions and they struggle to catch up with missed school work while trying to keep up with what they are currently working on.  Rarely does having a child out of school benefit them. 

I understand that there are circumstances that are unavoidable and those are excused.i know this will not be the popular answer but that is what i have experienced in my 19 years of being a teacher.

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45 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I...We’ll just have to hold off on EOT until all three are out of school, in 2029. Hopefully I’ll still be kicking and perhaps have a better chance in an older category!

Yeah, but all the people who are faster than you now will still be in your category. :)

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The kids who take their education seriously and are attending schools that also do so, along with parental involvement, may benefit more attending school.

More and more kids are attending social justice centers where traditional education is a secondary goal. They won't miss much if not there.

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Indoctrination was already replacing education in the Midwestern city we lived in 20 odd years ago.  Can't imagine what it is like in some places today, I'd have to send the kids to a private school (if I could find one) or home school.  A week without propaganda is a week of sunshine and freedom.  I can't think of what absolutely critical, unrecoverable content could be lost in a week of absence.

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Cody James started shooting at 9 and Jessica at 11. Both shot EOT and Winter Range every year.  We live in AZ so travel time was not an issue.  We had no problem with them missing school for three days of competition.  Just let the teachers and the principal know.  It is travel time that cost the kids extra days.  I am sure the schools they went to would have excused them for a week if necessary.  As Creeker was saying the experience of shooting in a world or national competition is incredible.  These kids sacrifice so much to become great shooters.  Waking up a 5 am to make most shoots, giving up their week ends, missing proms or homecomings, hard practice are just a few of the many sacrifices these kids make.   Imagine the sacrifice great tennis plays, golfers, basketball players etc make and the time out of the classroom.  My oldest son was a wrestler and missed school often.  We have had a blast!!!

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1 hour ago, Kirk James said:

Cody James started shooting at 9 and Jessica at 11. Both shot EOT and Winter Range every year.  We live in AZ so travel time was not an issue.  We had no problem with them missing school for three days of competition.  Just let the teachers and the principal know.  It is travel time that cost the kids extra days.  I am sure the schools they went to would have excused them for a week if necessary.  As Creeker was saying the experience of shooting in a world or national competition is incredible.  These kids sacrifice so much to become great shooters.  Waking up a 5 am to make most shoots, giving up their week ends, missing proms or homecomings, hard practice are just a few of the many sacrifices these kids make.   Imagine the sacrifice great tennis plays, golfers, basketball players etc make and the time out of the classroom.  My oldest son was a wrestler and missed school often.  We have had a blast!!!

 

 

Every child is different; but I believe unless the student is in some extremely advanced curriculums - there is ZERO that they will miss within a single individual week of public (teach to the average) K-12 education that cannot be caught up on or that will so isolate the student that they will be completely and utterly lost upon return.

 

But on the range (or sports field, or within most life experiences outside the daily routine) a child learns the real world life lessons of winning with class, losing with grace, exhibiting sportsmanship, compassion and cooperation.

Traveling our country - seeing other places, peoples and environments opens their eyes more than listening to yet another stuffy lecture. 

 

Those attributes (imo) contribute infinitely more to life long success than memorization tests and historical dates that can be brought up via Google search.

 

I missed school for travel and athletics when I was a kid.

Scorpion missed school for travel and shoots.

 

Small sample size but Im thinking we turned out ok.

My grandsons will miss school for travel, athletics and shoots.

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