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Forty  Rod SASS 3935

Stopped by a Sheriff's patrol car this a.m.

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Posted (edited)

First time in many years that I've seen a cop car behind me with the lights flashing.

 

Wasn't speeding or driving wildly, checked it all as I pulled over. Good looking young deputy sort of snuck up to the side window and asked me to open my trunk and unlock all of my doors.

 

After a few seconds he explained that they just got a report of a child being taken and thrown into the back of a white late model Chevy sedan.

 

As  I pulled back onto the highway I saw a few dozen LEOs, State, County, Township, and City, plus a County Constable all pulling white sedans over....and that was only in one direction from where I was going.

 

We have great police here, take the job very seriously, and manage it almost always with a smile or a grin.

 

God bless 'em all.

 

I hope they found the kid alright.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Forty Rod SASS 3935
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Forty,

 

lotsa people these days would yelled, screamed and cursed those rotten cops for hindering their evening...you took the time to realize how important it actually was and were grateful for them. You are a class act my friend, I'll stake my oath on it!

 

OO

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Forty

Good on ya!!

If we had more exchanges of mutual respect such as you were a part of,this society wouldn't be in the shape it's in.

Once again, way to go!

Choctaw

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I hope that they find that child. 
 

Let us know if you hear anything, Forty. 

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Thank you! I spent 13 years tracking and hunting predators like that.

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Howdy,

Now you got me missing my white chevy.

o well.

Best

CR

 

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That wasn’t a moment to stand on principle and you made the good call.  That would have wasted the precious time of a child.

 

If it had been routine, be as big a pain the ass as necessary.

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8 hours ago, Whiskey Hicks said:

 

 

If it had been routine, be as big a pain the ass as necessary.

 

Why.

It doesn't get you anywhere.

 

I was stopped in Flagstaff many years ago. Wasn't speeding or anything else. Only thing I could think of was that it might be because my truck had TN tags and I was pulling a friends trailer that had CA tags.  Pull into a parking lot to get off the main drag and while he is getting ready I pull out my wallet and retrieve my Drivers license, Military ID card, and registration.  Cop comes up to the window and asks for license and registration. I hand all three to him, he gives it a cursory look, and gives it back. He then apologizes for stopping me. Tells me there was a truck on the hot sheet that morning that looked a lot like mine so he decided to pull me over. While I was finding a place to get off the street he has a chance to verify the description and it wasn't me but he had already started the process so he wanted to finish it and apologize for the inconvenience. I tell him it was not necessary and thank him because if it was my truck that was stolen I would want it back. He smiles and wishes me a nice day and leaves.  Took all of 15 minutes start to finish.

 

No how long do you think it would have taken if I hadn't been courteous?

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8 hours ago, Whiskey Hicks said:

 

If it had been routine, be as big a pain the ass as necessary.

Towards what end?  Courtesy goes a long way. 
 

Maybe 0.0001% of officers would pull someone over without a valid reason. There are bad people in all lines of work. How about giving the cop behind you the doubt’s benefit and just show respect. 

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4 hours ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

Towards what end?  Courtesy goes a long way. 
 

Maybe 0.0001% of officers would pull someone over without a valid reason. There are bad people in all lines of work. How about giving the cop behind you the doubt’s benefit and just show respect. 

I don’t mean in any way being unreasonable, just insisting on all constitutional rights and following procedure. I apologize since “pain in the ass” does give the wrong impression.

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4 hours ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

Towards what end?  Courtesy goes a long way. 
 

Maybe 0.0001% of officers would pull someone over without a valid reason. There are bad people in all lines of work. How about giving the cop behind you the doubt’s benefit and just show respect. 

I don’t mean in any way being unreasonable, just insisting on all constitutional rights and following procedure. I apologize since “pain in the ass” does give the wrong impression.

 

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50 minutes ago, Whiskey Hicks said:

I don’t mean in any way being unreasonable, just insisting on all constitutional rights and following procedure. I apologize since “pain in the ass” does give the wrong impression.

 
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There is no constitutional issue when an officer simply asks you to do something. You always have the right to say no.

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Had to grin when you described the lawman as a good looking young deputy.

I've always been impressed by how professional Sheriff's deputies and State Troopers look.

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14 hours ago, Whiskey Hicks said:

That wasn’t a moment to stand on principle and you made the good call.  That would have wasted the precious time of a child.

 

If it had been routine, be as big a pain the ass as necessary.

Courtesy doesn't cost anything, and it makes another person's day a little brighter. 

Cops have a tough enough job, why should I make it an harder for them.

 

Just because you are able to do something, doesn't mean you have to do it. 

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I apologize to anyone if I’ve given an unfavorable impression on this thread. Little bit of a libertarian, but I didn’t mean to come across as disparaging to any LEOs.

 

My bad, ladies and gentlemen.

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5 hours ago, Whiskey Hicks said:

I apologize to anyone if I’ve given an unfavorable impression on this thread. Little bit of a libertarian, but I didn’t mean to come across as disparaging to any LEOs.

 

My bad, ladies and gentlemen.

No impression taken. Just my slant on things. This life is tough enough on a lot of folks.

Especially First Responders. I feel it is my duty to do everything to make the details clear 

and available. 

 

Dang, sounds like I am getting preachy. Maybe I should get a tent.  :lol:

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Whiskey Hicks said:

I apologize to anyone if I’ve given an unfavorable impression on this thread. Little bit of a libertarian, but I didn’t mean to come across as disparaging to any LEOs.

 

My bad, ladies and gentlemen.

 

No worries.

 

There are multitudes of videos available to watch in which law enforcement officers are certainly overstepping constitutional boundaries. It's easy to get caught up in emotion one way or another. The individual certainly needs to be aware of what their rights are versus how far a law enforcement officer can push things versus a case like this where apparently there is a greater good involved, in today's example, a search for an abducted child in which there exists probable cause to search a specific type of vehicle.

 

In my interactions with law enforcement I have always been courteous yet I have stood my ground. And that has paid off 2 out of 3 times where I certainly felt I was in the right and the police were in the wrong.  Police officers are human and can and do and will make mistakes. That is part of human nature. However I think the sentiment involved with the YouTube 1st person videos certainly drives the topic more towards law enforcement acting outside their legal boundaries and that is not right. Video tape has certainly changed the dynamic of police and citizen interaction. Something we can all benefit from.

 

 And in my estimation, civilian/police intervention dynamics has changed somewhat between the 1970s and 1980s and today's proclivity towards human psychosis.

 

Edited by Dantankerous

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On 8/21/2020 at 2:45 PM, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

After a few seconds he explained that they just got a report of a child being taken and thrown into the back of a white late model Chevy sedan.


This was the secret ingredient:  Communication.

This instantly opened the doors of community cooperation.
Kudos to the officer.
 

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On 8/21/2020 at 2:45 PM, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

snuck up to the side window and asked me to open my trunk and unlock all of my doors.

 

On 8/22/2020 at 4:56 AM, Sedalia Dave said:

Cop comes up to the window and asks for license and registration. I hand all three to him, he gives it a cursory look, and gives it back. He then apologizes for stopping me.

 

See the difference?  Yes, the Deputy did give 40 the reason,  one for which I would happily give permission.  

 

On 8/21/2020 at 8:41 PM, Whiskey Hicks said:

That wasn’t a moment to stand on principle and you made the good call.  That would have wasted the precious time of a child.

 

If it had been routine, be as big a pain the ass as necessary.

 

While his choice of words may have been poor,  a "Why do you want to search my vehicle?" would certainly be on order.  If the answer seems unreasonable to you,  a polite "Sorry, Deputy,  you don't have permission to search. " would also be in order. So would an "Am I free to go?" 

 

I get that being an LEO is a difficult,  often thankless,  and sometimes dangerous calling.   I also know that we have the Constitution,  including the Bill of Rights,  to rein in the power of the State. People complain "Criminals have more rights than honest citizens!"  No, they have exactly the same rights.   That their lawyers have to apply some of those protective rights,  and often split legal hairs,  against the State does not mean that they have more rights. 

 

I want every iota, every jot and tittle,  of those protections we are guaranteed by the Constitution applied if i happen to interact with LEOs in their professional capacity. Exactly the same way we all say "shall not be infringed. "

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2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

See the difference?  Yes, the Deputy did give 40 the reason,  one for which I would happily give permission.  

 

 

While his choice of words may have been poor,  a "Why do you want to search my vehicle?" would certainly be on order.  If the answer seems unreasonable to you,  a polite "Sorry, Deputy,  you don't have permission to search. " would also be in order. So would an "Am I free to go?" 

 

I get that being an LEO is a difficult,  often thankless,  and sometimes dangerous calling.   I also know that we have the Constitution,  including the Bill of Rights,  to rein in the power of the State. People complain "Criminals have more rights than honest citizens!"  No, they have exactly the same rights.   That their lawyers have to apply some of those protective rights,  and often split legal hairs,  against the State does not mean that they have more rights. 

 

I want every iota, every jot and tittle,  of those protections we are guaranteed by the Constitution applied if i happen to interact with LEOs in their professional capacity. Exactly the same way we all say "shall not be infringed. "

And don’t be surprised when the friendly warning that you were going to get turns into so much more

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27 minutes ago, Henry T Harrison said:

And don’t be surprised when the friendly warning that you were going to get turns into so much more

 

And why should that be the case?

 

Insisting upon the proper respect for your rights should not lead to any adverse consequences.  I'm not talking about the horse's ass that belligerently threatens a civil rights suit; just the guy that politely asks for the basis for the stop or display of the warrant.  This "ask for your rights to be respected and we'll get you some other way" attitude is what causes the police to lose the respect of their community.  Respect is a two-way street; if you want to be respected as an LEO, you have to give some respect in return.

 

LL

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1 hour ago, Henry T Harrison said:

And don’t be surprised when the friendly warning that you were going to get turns into so much more

 

So, if you demand to search a vehicle you have stopped and the driver politely asks you why,  maybe refuses permission to search, you will go hostile and get even for them not caving to your awesome authority?

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35 minutes ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

 

And why should that be the case?

 

Insisting upon the proper respect for your rights should not lead to any adverse consequences.  I'm not talking about the horse's ass that belligerently threatens a civil rights suit; just the guy that politely asks for the basis for the stop or display of the warrant.  This "ask for your rights to be respected and we'll get you some other way" attitude is what causes the police to lose the respect of their community.  Respect is a two-way street; if you want to be respected as an LEO, you have to give some respect in return.

 

LL

 

Well said,  thank you. 

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Posted (edited)

The problem with law enforcement personnel is: they can't read your mind. So...since they can't do that, they have to stop folks, and take a look-see, especially in vehicles that match the description of the one they are looking for. If you ain't got nothing to hide, then should there be a problem?

 

My nephew is a State Trooper. He told me that once a lady accused him of having a quota to write tickets.  He said: "No Ma'am, I don't have a quota...I can write as many tickets as I want to". 

 

Just like every other profession under the sun, a few bad ones can ruin it for all the other good ones. 

Our State Troopers have to have an associates, or higher, degree, to qualify to apply to the state to be a Trooper. They have to go to school, and pass the tests, plus the physical tests, plus a lot more. 

Then, they end up being paid an hourly wage. They are not even salaried. They risk their lives, for an hourly wage!!! They are away from home a lot, and at night, and on weekends. They have families that have a husband/wife, and a dad/mom, that may not come home because someone has no regard, or love, for their fellow humans. 

 

You did exactly the correct thing. You cooperated, and did not get mad, or upset, or belligerent. Since they are not God, and since they cannot read anyone's mind, and heart, they have to do it the human way...check and see, and then they will know. 

 

You done good!

 

W.K.

Edited by Waxahachie Kid #17017 L
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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

So, if you demand to search a vehicle you have stopped and the driver politely asks you why,  maybe refuses permission to search, you will go hostile and get even for them not caving to your awesome authority?

There is such a thing as exigent circumstances If your car matches the description of a vehicle just used in the abduction of a child you better believe that your trunk is going to be open.

If I stopped you for a legitimate traffic violation and you took an attitude why would I give you a break?

Yes it is an awesome responsibility and needs to be used very judiciously something that those who sit at home in their recliner criticizing will never understand 

Edited by Henry T Harrison
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10 minutes ago, Henry T Harrison said:

If I stopped you for a legitimate traffic violation and you took an attitude why would I give you a break?

 

You see asking why you want to search a vehicle as "(taking) an attitude?"  

Perhaps you missed where I wrote:

 

Quote

  Yes, the Deputy did give 40 the reason,  one for which I would happily give permission.  

 

Tell me, "Sir, I pulled you over because a vehicle matching the description of yours was involved in a kidnapping (armed robbery, etc.), I would like to search your vehicle." then, fine have at.  Just put everything - including the trash - back in when you are done.
 

Tell me, "Sir, I pulled you over because your license plate light is out.  Oh, and I'm going to need to search your vehicle" and you can bet that I will say something like, "And why is that, officer?"  See the difference.  Not yelling, as you imply.  Not being belligerent, as you imply.  Not being hostile, as you imply.  Just asking for the reason.  Yet you see just ASKING why an officer whats to perform a search without even stating a valid reason as hostile and "taking an attitude."
 

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And I already said what I think about pretext stops

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Henry T Harrison said:

And I already said what I think about pretext stops

 

From what I can can tell from your rather vague statement, your opinion is that once you pull someone over you can search their vehicle for any reason or none.  And that you see a citizen daring to ask why as being unreasonable, aggressive, and "taking an attitude."  
You wrote: "
There is such a thing as exigent circumstances If your car matches the description of a vehicle just used in the abduction of a child you better believe that your trunk is going to be open.."

For the THIRD TIME - tell me that it is for something like that, and fine I'll agree, no problem.  Just walk up and say, "I pulled you over because your tail light (brake light, other minor issue) is out, and I'm going to search your vehicle." and I will ask why every time.   But you see just ASKING the simple question almost as a physical attack on you.  

Why is a citizen ASKING why you want to search considered belligerent?


 

Edited by Subdeacon Joe
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23 hours ago, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said:

No impression taken. Just my slant on things. This life is tough enough on a lot of folks.

Especially First Responders. I feel it is my duty to do everything to make the details clear 

and available. 

 

Dang, sounds like I am getting preachy. Maybe I should get a tent.  :lol:

 

Don't charge for your preachin'  You'll starve to death.

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On 8/21/2020 at 9:41 PM, Whiskey Hicks said:

That wasn’t a moment to stand on principle and you made the good call.  That would have wasted the precious time of a child.

 

If it had been routine, be as big a pain the ass as necessary.

Not sure exactly what you meant by that.

 

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40 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Not sure exactly what you meant by that.

 

That it was a good chosen moment not to stand on procedure and principle. There are other times for it.

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Looks like we broke the 170 rule. Again!

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9 hours ago, Henry T Harrison said:

And I already said what I think about pretext stops

 

Maybe you did but I don't know what 'pretext stop' means. 

 

 

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My middle son got his learner's permit last month.  A few days ago he asked me what to do if he was pulled over.  I told him to pull way over so the Officer had room to come to his window without having his butt hanging out in traffic.  Roll down the window, if it's dark turn on the inside light, put his hands on the steering wheel, politely answer any questions and provide whatever documents requested. 

 

Pretty straightforward.  Being rude is, well rude.  Besides that, it's certainly not going to change the officer's mind about whatever he is going to do, whereas polite honesty just might.

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