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Forty  Rod SASS 3935

New CCW choice

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I haven't kept up on CCW choices for a number of years but now have a couple fo people who have decided to carry and asked me for choices.  A search of the web has left me totally confused and annoyed.

 

Both are NOT gun savvy, are willing to take classes to learn (we have several in this area), and have problems with hand strength (pulling slides and heavy trigger pulls are likely unacceptable.) and are probably never going to need a gun for self defense.....but we all know that can change in a blink.  Recoil may be an issue for them both, too.

 

Help me out.  So far I'm thinking Beretta Ton Cat Inox .32 acp, S&W Airweight 38 Special, and Ruger LCP .380 (I understand there is a newer model with a very easy to operate action.) 

 

I'm open to any other suggestions, too.  Thanks.

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Posted (edited)

If they’re not gun savvy I would urge them to consider a J frame or Ruger. Without training and experience a semi auto is a problem. And I’m not talking the basic familiarity training you get at a ccw course.

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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7 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

If they’re not gun savvy I would urge them to consider a J frame or Ruger. Without training and experience a semi auto is a problem. And I’m not talking the basic familiarity training you get at a ccw course.

When I was still selling guns professionally we sold to a lot to ladies who came in with guys.  The men were always pushing "wonder nines" or the latest "gee whiz" guns  they saw an TV, and Undertaker and I would tell the guys to get coffee and come back in a half hour or so.  (Guys have a hard time getting out fro a testosterone mind set when it comes to guns.  I probably sold a hundred Desert Eagles, Colt Deltas, and super magnums, more than any other shop in the area.  A lot of them got traded for something more practical a few months down the line.)

 

We'd start by finding out how much the ladies already knew (a surprising large percentage) and start pulling out simple, reliable DA .38 Specials and explaining the advantages.  Lots of S&W, Charter Arms, Taurus, and Rossi pistol were sold.  2 to 4 inch barrels were nearly universal.  An occasional Beretta semi auto would leave in Tom Cat .32 acp form and some used guns would get in the mix.

 

Undertaker was a much better instructor than I was and he'd talk them through to procedures from purchase to competent shooter.

 

We had the same experience with older gents and disabled people with physical problems racking slide and pulling DA triggers.

 

That's been 30 years ago (my God I'm getting old) and I simple haven't kept up to date any more.

 

Thanks, and I'm still looking for more guidance.

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For those not gun savvy, it doesn't get much simpler than a DA .38

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Tell them to give the .32 H&R mag, Charter Arms Undercoverette a try. Light, affordable, decent DA trigger pull. And, one more round than a S&W small frame .357.

 

With 85gn self defense ammo, it will change a lot of people's bad intentions.

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6 minutes ago, Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme said:

Tell them to give the .32 H&R mag, Charter Arms Undercoverette a try. Light, affordable, decent DA trigger pull. And, one more round than a S&W small frame .357.

 

With 85gn self defense ammo, it will change a lot of people's bad intentions.

Good choice. I’d never recommend a small frame 357 for a novice. 

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I have 2 choices, S&W Airweight in .38spl the one I carry most. I also have a S&W Shield in 9mm. 

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Rock Island Armory DA revolver in 38 special.  Can be had in 2" or 4" barrel lengths with or without a hammer spur. 

Exceptionally nice trigger pull and very affordable.  At a glance they look a lot like the old detective specials.

 

Bought one for the wife. Trigger pull beat the Ruger LCR hands down

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No CCW here in Canada, but a friend down your way used to put her faith in a .22 Magnum DA revolver.

Loud report and enough poop to get someones attention was what she said.

 

She was originally using a 1910 Browning in .380 but the light weight and her (Then) inexperience had her limp-wristing it, causing jams.

Today, after her husband's training and a lot of practice, she could handle a .45ACP with no problems. 

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8 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Rock Island Armory DA revolver in 38 special.  Can be had in 2" or 4" barrel lengths with or without a hammer spur. 

Exceptionally nice trigger pull and very affordable.  At a glance they look a lot like the old detective specials.

 

Bought one for the wife. Trigger pull beat the Ruger LCR hands down

Is that a 6 shot???

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Posted (edited)

I carry a Tomcat on occasion.  It's my 'can't get away with carrying anything bigger' gun.  Small, accurate for it's size and comfortable to shoot.  With some practice, you can keep everything inside a playing card out to 20-25 feet.

 

The slide is stiff as expected from a blowback gun- but you shouldn't have to rack it since it's a tip up- and the lower corners of the slide are needle/razor sharp and will bite the snot out of you if your aren't careful.  Take down is simple- tilt the barrel to 90 degrees, cock the hammer (leave the safety off and alone!) and pop the slide up and slide it forward.  It's got an inertia firing pin, so the hammer being down doesn't put it in contact with the primer.

 

Loaded with a reputable 60gr hollowpoint (mine likes Silvertips and Gold Dots accuracy wise), I figure it'll do.

Edited by Smuteye John SASS#24774

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2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Is that a 6 shot???

Yeah.  Filipino copy of the Colt D frames.  The ones I've seen are rough but functional.

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2 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

I haven't kept up on CCW choices for a number of years but now have a couple fo people who have decided to carry and asked me for choices.  A search of the web has left me totally confused and annoyed.

 

Both are NOT gun savvy, are willing to take classes to learn (we have several in this area), and have problems with hand strength (pulling slides and heavy trigger pulls are likely unacceptable.) and are probably never going to need a gun for self defense.....but we all know that can change in a blink.  Recoil may be an issue for them both, too.

 

Help me out.  So far I'm thinking Beretta Ton Cat Inox .32 acp, S&W Airweight 38 Special, and Ruger LCP .380 (I understand there is a newer model with a very easy to operate action.) 

 

I'm open to any other suggestions, too.  Thanks.

 

Take them to a gun range(s) that rent guns and have them handle and dry fire some, the ones they find the most comfortable have them try the gun with live ammo.

 

And have them read the following: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/how-to-rack-pistol-slide-weak-hands/

 

If recoil is going to be an issue, then forget almost all of the blow back .semi-auto's and the small revolvers in conventional calibers. 

 

In a full sized gun, the Steyr M9-A1 (9 mm) has a good trigger, it's points better then any other gun I've handled in 40+ years of shooting and the recoil & muzzle flip is mild.  I've heard good things about the Bersa .380's regarding their quality and mild recoil, but have not fired or handled one.

 

Thinking outside of the box, maybe the .22 Magnum or 5.7 x 28 in a semi-auto, although I have not fired of handled them either.  If they can manage the trigger, perhaps a small revolver in 9mm.  From what I have read a 9 mm revolver shoots "softer" then a .38 with decent defense loads.

 

 

 

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I’ll definitely second the Tomcat for a senior citizen living in a relatively safe area. It’s small and as accurate as it needs to be. It’s pop up barrel means that there is no need to manipulate the slide to load or unload. 
I wish that I still had mine and it’s little brother in .22 that my son “borrowed” 

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2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

If they’re not gun savvy I would urge them to consider a J frame or Ruger. Without training and experience a semi auto is a problem. And I’m not talking the basic familiarity training you get at a ccw course.

 

X2 on J frame S&W 38/357.

Crimson Trace LASER grip is a good choice to go with it.

I use the LG-405. I do see they are OOS of this and many other at this time.

OLG 

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12 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

X2 on J frame S&W 38/357.

Crimson Trace LASER grip is a good choice to go with it.

I use the LG-405. I do see they are OOS of this and many other at this time.

OLG 

Yup

airweight1.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Glock 43X

Sig P238

Glock 42

 

There have also been a few threads on it in the last week or so.

Might find some info in those.

Edited by Anvil Al #59168

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3 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Is that a 6 shot???

Yes. Six shots.

 

I inquired about +P defensive rounds and was told that the pistol was safe shooting them but that a steady diet was not recommended. 

 

Wife practices with our SASS cowboy loads and carries it with either Hornady Critical Defense or Federal PDX in all 6 chambers. They have noticeable recoil in such a small revolver but if she ever needed to actually use it the recoil would go unnoticed.

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Posted (edited)

From another thread the S&W Shield EZ9 or EZ380 are both good options.  They are designed to require significantly less effort to rack the slide than a typical semi-auto.

Edited by Sedalia Dave

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Based on the OP description of potential owners, I’m wondering if any semi auto is a good idea. Seems they’d be likely to limp wrist resulting in a possible jam. With a DA revolver, a follow up shot is always possible after the first one goes down range. 

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My early model 37 Airweight, I also have a Hammerless model

IMG_1541.JPG

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This is a GREAT study on handguns, maybe the best I have ever seen.  https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/4/8/right-for-you-ladies-pistol-project-3-results/

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2 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Based on the OP description of potential owners, I’m wondering if any semi auto is a good idea. Seems they’d be likely to limp wrist resulting in a possible jam. With a DA revolver, a follow up shot is always possible after the first one goes down range. 

My thoughts exactly. After they have the gun for a year and have made numerous fun trips to the range, it might be time to transition. If they can get good instruction.

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2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Yes. Six shots.

 

I inquired about +P defensive rounds and was told that the pistol was safe shooting them but that a steady diet was not recommended. 

 

Wife practices with our SASS cowboy loads and carries it with either Hornady Critical Defense or Federal PDX in all 6 chambers. They have noticeable recoil in such a small revolver but if she ever needed to actually use it the recoil would go unnoticed.

Is it a direct knock off of a Det special? I just ask because they were the same lockwork as the old Python, diamond back , etc . They take hand fitting to time up . Colt went to the trooper/king cobra style guns to get away from that . It’ll be interesting some day to get a look inside a new python I’m kinda surprised one of the you tubers hasn’t done one yet 

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The misses 1st carry gun was a Kimber Ultra CDP.  She purse carried it.  Latter she bought a 13 ounce 380 six in the mag 1 in the chamber.  A box of ball ammo was enough to convince her it wasn't for her.  It is my boot gun after I fixed the jam-o-matic issue.  I can only get two fingers around the grip.  After she tried a S&W 38+P bodyguard (J frame) with Crimson Trace laser grips in 2013 it went home with her.  She liked the 1st handgun we bought in the 90's with is a S&W model 66 w/4" barrel.  +1 for DA revolvers for 1st time handgun owners.

P.S.  The 327 Federal Ruger LCR is a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive.  You have the choice of 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R Magnum & 327 Federal Magnum ammo.

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9 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Good choice. I’d never recommend a small frame 357 for a novice. 

I don't care for a .357 snub gun for me with full loads.

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I forgot about "limp wristing" the gun.  We're going to Insight tomorrow and shoot some of their guns.  We'll see.  Looks like the revolvers are out simply because of the bulk.  My wife traded in her Charter Arms Undercover for a Tom Cat and when she died my daughter took the gun and got rid of her Rossi .38 snubby.

 

Both want to take the course offered by Insight and get an Arizona CCW.  They have some excellent instructors and a great indoor range, and they are only a half mile or a bit less from where we'll all be living

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4 hours ago, Buckshot Bob said:

Is it a direct knock off of a Det special? I just ask because they were the same lockwork as the old Python, diamond back , etc . They take hand fitting to time up . Colt went to the trooper/king cobra style guns to get away from that . It’ll be interesting some day to get a look inside a new python I’m kinda surprised one of the you tubers hasn’t done one yet 

 

Not a copy as far as I can tell. They just look similar.

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12 hours ago, Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme said:

Tell them to give the .32 H&R mag, Charter Arms Undercoverette a try. Light, affordable, decent DA trigger pull. And, one more round than a S&W small frame .357.

 

With 85gn self defense ammo, it will change a lot of people's bad intentions.

My wife has lupus, and the arthritis in her hands can be quite debilitating. Sh e went through numerous handguns before settling on the 32 H&R mag Coverette. She absolutely loves that handgun. On my range she has been able to shoot for enjoyment and practice without it leaving her in pain.  She has also spent most of the last 50 years working with the elderly, with the last 20 or so in Occupational Therapy. She highly recommends this handgun.

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20 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I have 2 choices, S&W Airweight in .38spl the one I carry most. I also have a S&W Shield in 9mm. 


I have those two and a Glock 19 on my permit.

 

Any of the hammerless J frames make a nice carry.

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I work at a gun store part time (every Sat) and am a CCW instructor in NC.   Lots of solid ideas here.  best advice is "let them shoot/hold several" before they just buy one. Many folks have seen FB posts from our gun shop and absolutely HAVE to have "that "x" that I saw on the internets cause it was Tiffany Blue/Purple/Pink". :rolleyes:  Til they hold it, and they dont like it.  We keep a stable of the Glocks, Sccy, Ruger, S&W.  First I ask what their budget is, then preference of SA or revolver,  then caliber (and why). Then put several out in their price range. Let them pick them up and see what fits.   Most of the time the gun chooses them. 

 

On the revolver situation, Hornady makes Critical Defense in "Lite" , and they also make it in 9mm as well.   Ive shot a few pistols during class with them , just to try them, and they are much tamer than other options.   

 

My take on what CCW:   low budget $200-300: Sccy 9mm/.380, Ruger LCP in .22 mag, Ruger EC9   mid grade300-400:  S&W 9mm/.380EZ series (bigger, but manageable with people with poor grip strength. High end$400-600:  Glock 42/43 or Sig 365

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For a carry firearm, I found my "virtual" S&W 442 to be ideal. Only draw back is only 5 rounds, 

but at bellybutton range, 5 rounds to the bread basket might change the picture for a prep.

Rated for .38+.  hammerless, and light weight, what is not to like?

 

But then again, VIRTUAL firearms are all light weight. 

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14 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

I forgot about "limp wristing" the gun.  We're going to Insight tomorrow and shoot some of their guns.  We'll see.  Looks like the revolvers are out simply because of the bulk.  My wife traded in her Charter Arms Undercover for a Tom Cat and when she died my daughter took the gun and got rid of her Rossi .38 snubby.

 

Both want to take the course offered by Insight and get an Arizona CCW.  They have some excellent instructors and a great indoor range, and they are only a half mile or a bit less from where we'll all be living

Insight does a great job!  Good choice.

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