Lead Friend, SASS #53635 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 My brother and I are having a discussion regarding reloading. He decaps before he tumbles (we both use the wet steel pin system) and I do not decap before tumbling. I am relatively new to reloading (a thousand rounds of .45 Colt on a Lee Pro 1000) while he, to his credit, has been reloading for years on an XL650. The Best Wife Ever is giving me an XL650 for Christmas (I know this because I can see it in the basement, I just can't touch it). Do we have a consensus on whether decapping before cleaning is necessary? I understand that in a perfect world it's probably better, but is it necessary. (I understand that in a perfect world case trimming is also beneficial but I have read many here on the wire saying it is not necessary given the tolerances in our sport, including this very same brother). FYI, I will be reloading .357 Mag for cowboy on the XL650. All thoughts are welcome.Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 You have to size but decapping before or after tumbling is a personal choice. I don't as it's an extra step I don't have time for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch McGie, SASS#71758 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 There is a slight risk of getting some media stuck in the primer pocket. So then one has to run them all thru the de prime and size again. Always seemed to me to be extra bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 We always clean before depriming. Media can get stuck in the primer hole and stop ignition, Decapping pin insures the primer hole is clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Seamus Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I decap before I wet tumble all of the time now. Extra time is needed to dry as water is retained in the pockets. Whatever you do - do not load ammo for your wife before pockets are dry and give her that ammo for club annual match. That does not add to domestic tranquility. Don't ask me how I know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Curly SASS#57086 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 When I switched to the walnut media I stopped decapping first. I found a lot of media in the primer hole from the walnut media. It took a lot more time in preparation cleaning out the media before anything else. Reloading is fun for me and the fact it saves some cash works out as well.Enjoy your new reloader. Merry Christmas my friend. Diamond Curly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Friend, SASS #53635 Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 Diamond Curly, you rascal. Been awhile since you beat me in a handsome contest. The good news for you is that I ain't got any better lookin' in quite awhile, although I shoot a little faster. Â Thanks to all for their observations which generally support my argument. Further observations welcome although I'm too smart these days to get invited I to another handsome contest. Learned my lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventura Slim, SASS #35690 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I do not decap first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Curly SASS#57086 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Diamond Curly, you rascal. Been awhile since you beat me in a handsome contest. The good news for you is that I ain't got any better lookin' in quite awhile, although I shoot a little faster. Thanks to all for their observations which generally support my argument. Further observations welcome although I'm too smart these days to get invited I to another handsome contest. Learned my lesson. If a guy can't shoot worth a shoot then he is forced to just "Look" good instead. We all have a place in this wonderful game and stay where we are comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 When I switched to the walnut media I stopped decapping first. I found a lot of media in the primer hole from the walnut media. It took a lot more time in preparation cleaning out the media before anything else. Exactly the way I do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I let the Dillon 650 do the decapping after wet tumbling my brass. Never had a problem. I use the ceramic media instead of the pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Never have and never will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 the press, whether it's a Lee Pro 1000 or Dillon 650 has nothing to do with it and doesn't say anything about the experience of the reloader. Lots of experts out there using presses other than a 650. Â I decap after cleaning for reasons stated above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Howdy  I never decap before tumbling. And by the way, I only shoot Black Powder in CAS, and even with the slight buildup of soot at the bottom of the primer pocket I never decap before tumbling. My ammo always goes bang.  And excuse me very much, but the press you use does have something to do with it. Decapping before tumbling defeats part of the efficiency of a progressive press. I have two Hornady AP Lock and Loads, one set up for small pistol primers and one set up for large pistol primers. Decapping before tumbling adds extra steps to the reloading process. If one is going to decap first, then tumble, one has to run all the brass through the first die only, then tumble them, then come back and run them all through the press again for seating the new primer, belling, powder drop, bullet seating and crimping. Progressive presses are designed to do it all in one swell foop. Interrupting the process just adds extra work.  Although, when loading 45-70 on a single stage I will decap, then scrape out the residue at the bottom of the primer pocket with one of those little steel brushes. Then I continue with the rest of the steps. But that's only with 45-70 for peak accuracy. For normal pistol ammo I don't bother, just run them through the press from soup to nuts.  And yes, you should ALWAYS size your brass to bring it all into the same spec and to have consistent neck tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Goodnight Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'm not gong to get into the debate about which is better to decap or not to decap. If you decide that you're going to decap before your cleaning process do you and your brass a favor. Don't use a Combo Decap/Resizing Die. Go spend $60 on a single stage press, a shell plate of your caliber and a Lee Universal Decapping Die. This die unlike the combo die does not resize the brass and will save on wear and tear. You could also use this die in your regular loader but I prefer to have it separate. There's no sense putting your brass through the stress of resizing twice every time you reload it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 And excuse me very much, but the press you use does have something to do with it. Decapping before tumbling defeats part of the efficiency of a progressive press. I have two Hornady AP Lock and Loads, one set up for small pistol primers and one set up for large pistol primers. Decapping before tumbling adds extra steps to the reloading process. If one is going to decap first, then tumble, one has to run all the brass through the first die only, then tumble them, then come back and run them all through the press again for seating the new primer, belling, powder drop, bullet seating and crimping. Progressive presses are designed to do it all in one swell foop. Interrupting the process just adds extra work. Howdy Driftwood, we seem to be talking about two different things. My point was that the brand of press has nothing to do with it, and frankly neither does single stage vs progressive for this question. The OP (by my reading) infers that the owner of the high end press is an expert by virtue of owning one. Â As I read the OP, he appears to be asking whether decapping before sizing is necessary. Extra steps is a related, but separate issue. (and I happen to agree on the extra step part). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Chevy's -Chrysler's - Ford's ... every caliber centerfire I shoot is decapped on a single stage press with the Lee Universal decapper die. Then wet cleaned in the rotary tumbler with media & burnishing solution. All rifle calibers reloaded on a single stage and handgun's on the 550B Why decap? Dirty pockets are not conducive to proper seating of the primer and ignition can vary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pick Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 When I dry tumble with walnut or similar media, I don't decap first for the reasons Assassin and others have mentioned. When wet tumbling with stainless or ceramic for my black powder brass, I decap first for a couple of reasons. First, I like the primer pockets to be clean for no particular reason other than I like it that way. Never made a difference for me setting primers clean or dirty really. Second and more importantly, I once went to a match with brass that I'd wet tumbled with the primers in place and then reloaded in a hurry. Turns out there was leftover moisture in the primer pockets that fouled around 30% of the primers resulting in a whole bunch of misfires. I didn't let the brass dry long enough before loading it. I ended up giving up on shooting that day and running the timer for the rest of the match. Lesson learned. Now I decap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I vibrate with dry media. I never decap before cleaning. Only downside is an occasional lizard litter granule that drops under the shell plate and makes a small dent in the primer when it smashes flat on the 550 primer seating anvil. Takes more time than I have to make another press pass before cleaning step. Â Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarillo Rattler Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I decap at the range and drop the brass into a 5% Simple Green/water solution. Makes the clear water rinse at home very easy. Â Wet tumble with SS pins. Less than 1 in a 1,000 will have 2 pins in the flash hole. Dillon SD punches those out with no problems. Â Clean primer pockets and flash holes is a big benefit, easy rinse and dry also. Â Oh, did I mention I shoot Holy Black only? Â Just sayin' Â Amarillo Rattler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I vibrate with dry media. I never decap before cleaning. Only downside is an occasional lizard litter granule that drops under the shell plate and makes a small dent in the primer when it smashes flat on the 550 primer seating anvil. Takes more time than I have to make another press pass before cleaning step. Â Good luck, GJ Â +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I always decap first, even before when I was using dry media. Several years ago switched to wet stainless steel pins, and if you don't decap, you will have a wet primer pocket when you decap. Once in a while I will find a cleaned primed shell, and when I do decap the primer pocket is always wet. Personal choice with dry media, with wet, you have to decap first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I have always decapped first with a universal die. I do so on a Lee turret. I tumble with dry media and use Lizard Litter - Desert Blend - it is a fine grind & doesn't tend to get stuck in the flash hole. I also have a little car wax & about 2# of steel shot, size BBB in the media. Might get 1 case in 200 with granule stuck in flash hole that I remove while inspecting brass for splits. It would be removed in the re-sizing operation if I missed it. I use a hand priming tool, I think it gives me a better feel for seating.I had a high primer - only once in 11 years. I have the time to do the extra steps & enjoy reloading. Just my experience - YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I de-cap then wet tumble. I feel like the solution circulates better and cleans the inside of the brass better. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Friend, SASS #53635 Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Howdy Driftwood, we seem to be talking about two different things. My point was that the brand of press has nothing to do with it, and frankly neither does single stage vs progressive for this question. The OP (by my reading) infers that the owner of the high end press is an expert by virtue of owning one. Â As I read the OP, he appears to be asking whether decapping before sizing is necessary. Extra steps is a related, but separate issue. (and I happen to agree on the extra step part). Â Â Sorry for any confusion caused by an error in my original post. I wrote case sizing when I meant case trimming. I have fixed that. Â I certainly did not intend to infer that the owner of a high end press is an expert by virtue of owning one. I was merely trying to paint a picture and give credit that my brother, with whom I have been disagreeing on this subject, has been doing this longer than I have and is more invested in it on multiple levels. As my older brother he is quite generous to me with his unsolicited advice and while he may consider himself an expert on many subjects I figured I'd look here for consensus on this particular subject. Â My question seemed straightforward to me, is decapping before cleaning necessary, and the answer appears to be somewhere between "maybe" and "not necessarily". Â Thanks to all who responded. I learned a lot, specifically about water getting in the primer pocket on uncapped wet tumbled brass. I had not considered that possibility although for me it hasn't been an issue. I tumble somewhat frequently and load less frequently. I let the clean brass sit in an open bucket to air out, sometimes for a month or more, so it appears to dry just fine. Â Thanks to all. Sorry for any lack of clarity on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 When are you going to bring your brother out to the range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Lead Friend. I built a wood drying rack for letting the wet tumbled brass to dry. I have about 150 wooden dowels driven into a 3/4 inch board. After towel drying I put the clean brass on the dowels, and the next day they are dry, no need for oven or any other electrical device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I made up a drying rack with plastic coated screen on the bottom. After I polish the brass and tumble it in a separator to get the polishing media separated I rinse the brass a couple if times in a colander and then spread it out in my drying tray out in the sun. Throughout the day I will knead and stir the warm drying brass and by the end of a nice sunny day the brass is dry. The brass then goes in gallon pickle jars with desiccants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I do not wet tumble my brass... I do wash cases that have been fired after loading with BP, for these I "generally" decap before washing, then tumble with dry media. For any smokeless rounds to be loaded on a progressive, they just get dry tumbled then run thru the loading press. Not necessarily immediately, as I have several thousand cases of each cartridge I reload. Therefore, my washed cases have ample time to dry before being reloaded. Â There's a huge difference between reloading for bulk pistol ammo for use in cowboy action (or other action games), and precision reloading for target shooting, either pistol or rifle. As the saying goes, "a clean primer pocket is the sign of a sick mind." Or something along those lines.... IMO, it is unnecessary, unless your guns are so finely tuned that they can't set off a primer with a few mili-thousandths of residue in the pocket. In which case, it becomes necessary. You are the best judge of which category you fall into. Â I've never had to "trim" a pistol case once they've cleared the check when new. Straight walled pistol cases do not stretch, appreciably. One can argue that they do when sized. But I've yet to see one stretch to the point it will not chamber. Whether your .357 cases are fired in pistol or rifle, it is still a "pistol" case. If anything, as in the case of 45ACP, it'll be shorter after repeated firings; but in all likelihood, you'll experience case failure before it'll stretch enough to require trimming. Â Enjoy your new "surprise" Dillon. Never fear, there isn't a person on this great green earth that didn't start as a total newbie and didn't needed answers in obtaining the "expertise" they now have. I've always felt it was the smart ones that asked questions instead of just experimenting their way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Friend, SASS #53635 Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 When are you going to bring your brother out to the range? Working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I don't consider smokeless brass to be needful of cleaning. Maybe polish them up with some corncob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 No and No.......no decapping, that's what a progressive press is for And no case trimming pistol calibers ever. However, if I was gonna decap I would buy a universal decapping die so I would'nt be running dirty brass through my good resizing die. Good Luck  Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Pistol brass I do NOT de-cap before I dry vibratory clean it. Then I reload on one of 2 Dillon 650's with Dillon dies. For my Precision rifle rounds I de-cap then wet tumble. Then load on a Redding turret press with Redding dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 i do not decap before tumbling , i do not trim - straight cases and cowboy loading make that a fairly moot point , you have to resize [but thats a given] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZigMar Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 FWIW... I decap first with a Lee universal decapping die, tumble, first in lizard litter and then in corncob with Dillon rapid polish, and then resize. The decapping pin in the sizing die clears the flash hole of any media stuck in there. But like others have said, I think its more of a personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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