FCGF is on the TG Agenda!

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Call, write, visit or find some way to convince your TG to vote yes on this item.

 

A very upbeat - CR

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

AWESOME!!

 

GG ~

[Warden Callaway]

I don't think I need to talk to our TG. I've shot a couple of matches with him and visited with him a couple of other times. He shoots BP and cap and ball. At last visit, I mentioned I'd been shooting gunfighter, a big smile came on his face. He admitted he'd been practicing.

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

Once again, into the breach! I certainly hope this passes this time around. It was close in the past, but there is a significant contingent of folks (Not just TGs) that don't want to see any new categories, period. It's a tough call, but I will have my fingers crossed in anticipation.

 

Dogmeat (FCGF Is The Best) Dad

[John Henry Quick]

PLEASE pass it!!! I mean, c'mon! It's offered everywhere I've shot and the FCGF shooters are outnumbered only by 49rs.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

This is probably a dumb question, but how do you know who your TG is?

[Anvil Al #59168]

This is probably a dumb question, but how do you know who your TG is?

 

 

Do you belong to any local clubs????

 

Just ask one of the club officers. They should be able to point them out.

Or they should be listed in with all the club info.

 

If you are not a member of any local club. Then you don't have one.

I am a member of several clubs. So have a few TG's I talk to about what gets voted on.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Once again, into the breach! I certainly hope this passes this time around. It was close in the past, but there is a significant contingent of folks (Not just TGs) that don't want to see any new categories, period. It's a tough call, but I will have my fingers crossed in anticipation.

 

Dogmeat (FCGF Is The Best) Dad

 

 

Well. I am normally in this group of NO new category's. In fact I think some should be combined.

 

BUT.

 

Think this is one that it is time for.

[Outrider, SASS #72622]

 

 

Well. I am normally in this group of NO new category's. In fact I think some should be combined.

 

BUT.

 

Think this is one that it is time for.

Yep

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Great...another low participation category...I remember when Modern was killed...folks were complaining that it was a low participation category.

 

Sorry...I'm not for it.

 

Phantom

[Anvil Al #59168]

Great...another low participation category...I remember when Modern was killed...folks were complaining that it was a low participation category.

 

Sorry...I'm not for it.

 

Phantom

 

 

Wish they would combine some. Like FC Duelist and FC Gunfighter.

 

And also allow Gunfighter into ones like Classic Cowboy and Frontiersman.

[Blastmaster]

If one wishes, can one not shoot FCGF style in one of many many categories...All ya need to declare is GF and go for it.

 

Or you just want the category recognized so you can cut the herd down and get the trinket.

 

Hey, pick your category wisely as they say,,,, ya know you have an additional challenge by shooting BP. If you want the trinket, then shoot smokeless.

 

I am all for two category system.. A) Men & B)Women

[Grizzly Dave]

I'm with Al on this one, I think the time has come. After all, most big matches already offer it.

 

For Blastmaster and others who think there should be way fewer categories, perhaps only men's and ladies, if offered, would you sign up for a NC (no category) category? Any SASS legel guns, leather, caliber and shooting style. Only 'trinkets' you would be in the running for would be overall. That way you could play for what you feel is important and let others compete for the category trinkets.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

If one wishes, can one not shoot FCGF style in one of many many categories...All ya need to declare is GF and go for it.

Which of the "many many categories" allows THAT?

Currently there are only TWO that are "officially recognized" that allow GF-style shooting.

 

...

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Here is the agenda item as presented to the TGs for polling their club members:

3) Should we officially acknowledge the shooting category "Frontier Cartridge gunfighter" as a SASS sanctioned/recognized category?

The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current "Frontier Cartridge" category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current "Gunfighter" Category.

 

The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles.

Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands)

Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed); FCGF (both hands).

"Territorial Bulletin" Nov 2014

[Blastmaster]

I'm with Al on this one, I think the time has come. After all, most big matches already offer it.

 

For Blastmaster and others who think there should be way fewer categories, perhaps only men's and ladies, if offered, would you sign up for a NC (no category) category? Any SASS legel guns, leather, caliber and shooting style. Only 'trinkets' you would be in the running for would be overall. That way you could play for what you feel is important and let others compete for the category trinkets.

Grizz,

 

I would be fine if SASS went with No Categories,,,, just collect and post stage times +/- penalties & bonus.

 

To answer your question, yes... I look at where I place overall. Keep the trinket because today will soon be tomorrow and one should be looking forward to tomorrow.

 

No one but your ownself cares who won what the next day and after a short time, neither do you.

 

 

Would you continue to shoot SASS if there were No Categories? you should, cause it is fun for the moment.

 

Winning a category trinket in a low populated class and being in the 70 percentile (pick a percentile) of the match means what?

 

If it means something, then take your placement overall and make up a class. Hmmmm the person that lives the closest to 123miles from the match. There's a category to be proud of.

 

Same question to the afternoon crowd.

[Blastmaster]

 

If one wishes, can one not shoot FCGF style in one of many many categories...All ya need to declare is GF and go for it.

Which of the "many many categories" allows THAT?

Currently there are only TWO that are "officially recognized" that allow GF-style shooting.

 

...

 

Fair enough. Many, many boils down to two.

 

You answered my main question. Once can shoot FCGF style at a match today. May not be reconized as such, but can shoot it.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Fair enough. Many, many boils down to two.

 

You answered my main question. Once can shoot FCGF style at a match today. May not be reconized as such, but can shoot it.

 

Certainly....in either GF (using BP against the smokeless competitors) or in BW (with the additional factor of being subject to costume judging).

Otherwise, the progressive P/SDQ/MDQ penalty applies for shooting out of category...that would be three stages & OUT.

 

Denigrating comments regarding acquisition of "trinkets" is counterproductive to the conversation, IMO.

[Blastmaster]

Trinket= ornament/ knick-knack/Souvenir/charm/figurine

 

Isn't that what a prize is?

 

Using BP against smokeless is about like shooting left hand in a right hand world.

[Tyrel Cody]

Trinket= ornament/ knick-knack/Souvenir/charm/figurine

 

Isn't that what a prize is?

 

Using BP against smokeless is about like shooting left hand in a right hand world.

Have you shot BP and more importantly have you shot BP Gunfighter against smokeless gunfighter? If the smoke requirement is actually met there IS a distinct disadvantage.

[Missouri Marshal SASS #50682]

Trinket= ornament/ knick-knack/Souvenir/charm/figurine

 

Isn't that what a prize is?

 

Using BP against smokeless is about like shooting left hand in a right hand world.

Not even close! Just guessing but I'd bet you don't shoot BP.

[Dewey Cheatem, SASS #75620]

If you don't think BP shooters can hold their own look at the top 20 at SW Regionals CAC. Ain't Dunit shot clean and finished 4th overall with Spur Roberts right behind him.

I support FCGF as more people are shooting BP. If powder doesn't come back available more people may be shooting it. Why not offer the base categories to BP shooters. If you want to cut down categories change up age brackets in smokeless to 40 and under and 40 and above. Just a thought

 

DC

[Blastmaster]

Have you shot BP and more importantly have you shot BP Gunfighter against smokeless gunfighter? If the smoke requirement is actually met there IS a distinct disadvantage.

No I haven't. But looks like fun.

 

Don't have the skill set (operating pistol with right hand)to shoot GF...More power to them that do.

 

Heavens yes,the smokeless powder folks have an advantage. Unless the BP shooters are shooting 32mag and or 32 Longs loaded with BP tht make minimal,,,, but legal smoke. I've witmess a couple shooters that do just that,,,,shoot BP in 32 caliber firearms and they see to do pretty well.

 

Shooting Left Handed is a disadvantage too.. try running backwards to next shoting location most if not all the time.. but that is a different topic. And no, I am not saying that all 32 categories should have a mirror awards for being LH.

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

Wish they would combine some. Like FC Duelist and FC Gunfighter.

 

And also allow Gunfighter into ones like Classic Cowboy and Frontiersman.

 

 

Why not carry it a step further and combine Duelist and Gunfighter?

 

I have to disagree with you here. All else being equal, Gunfighter is faster than Duelist.

[Rye Miles #13621]

There's already more FCGF's at local shoots than FC Duelists or FC. Why not??

[Blackwater 53393]

I just hope they don't attach some "poison pill" amendment to the proposition. Last time it would have passed easily except for the fact that they added an amendment to eliminate some categories, specifically Grande Dame, to the proposal effectively killing it's chance of getting the required percentage of "yes" votes.

 

It received a majority of affirmative votes, but many TGs couldn't bring themselves to eliminate the other categories threatened in the proposal, and rightly so.

 

Anyone with a third of a brain could recognize the chicanery of that situation!!

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

I doubt that I will ever shoot in any Gunfighter in any cat., just not talented OR smart enuff to figure it out BUT I do think it should be offered, with one caveat. Either pass it OR start a required annual vote to eliminate two (or more) cats until such time as we arrive at the mens, womens and buckaroo only cats, in ever how many finish places the match wants to recognise. Shux, we have all sorts of age and other non-shooting junk added in at the time we felt all giddy about recognising everyone with an award so either we really mean that there are to many or accept that there are not enuff. As much as I have wanted a FCGF cat., I think I like the idea of only having three (and secretly even favor just two- Adult and Buckaroo). Every time we vote on this we have the smokeless shooters who added so many non shooting cats into the bag hollering its time to stop the madness when it is about something they do not understand or even care about.

[J-BAR #18287]

Many have stressed that our sport is "entertainment", but seem to fail to understand that getting a plaque, even in a category with few shooters, is a big part of the entertainment...

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Great...another low participation category...I remember when Modern was killed...folks were complaining that it was a low participation category.

 

Sorry...I'm not for it.

 

Phantom

In this part of the world we can get 4 or 5 FGCF at a 50 to 60 shooter local match. Most places I go have the category available. I guess if it's not raining at your place it's not raining anywhere? This proposal only provides the same shooting styles available to smokeless shooters, except we do not have age based breakouts. BP cartridge is 3 categories per gender. Smokeless should be so simple.

 

CR

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

I don't shoot FCGF to get a "Trinket". I shoot it because it's fun! In fact, I have tried on a few occasions to get the best GF in the (Old) NE Region to switch to FCGF. If I am gonna get my butt kicked, I want it kicked by the best! And yes, I have shot FCGF in Big Matches in the GF category because FCGF wasn't offered.

 

There are already constraints about how many competitors need to be in a category for it to be offered so I don't see the issue. There are no age breaks in the BP categories, no Senior Left Hand Frontier Cartridge Duelists, just FC and FCD. Adding FCGF just fills out the options for us BP folks.

 

Personally, I think all categories should be offered at all matches, regardless of participation level. If the Match Director, or SASS, wants to put constraints on anything, let it be on the number of competitors required for the category to RECEIVE AWARDS, not to PARTICIPATE. I had one Match Director, at a club Annual Match, tell me that he couldn't offer FCGF because there were not enough competetors and I couldn't switch to GF for the same reason. I told him that was fine, I would shoot it anyway, just don't give me an award, but don't disallow me to participate as an FCGF competitor. If the MD felt the need to say anything at all, he could just say...

 

"And, in a Category By Himself, Shooting FCGF, Dogmeat Dad!"

 

It doesn't cost the club anything to let me do it. I don't get to walk around with a shiney buckle someone may think I didn't deserve, or take home a plaque to hang on a wall that no one will ever see. How does that diminish anybody elses participation or achievements? It doesn't.

 

FCGF is a category whos time has come. I hope it passes.

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

Many have stressed that our sport is "entertainment", but seem to fail to understand that getting a plaque, even in a category with few shooters, is a big part of the entertainment...

 

Not to mention the folks who walk up and ask about it, talk about, dream about being able to do it, etc. As I always say, I may not be good, but I am fun to watch!

[Tyrel Cody]

I don't shoot FCGF to get a "Trinket". I shoot it because it's fun! In fact, I have tried on a few occasions to get the best GF in the (Old) NE Region to switch to FCGF. If I am gonna get my butt kicked, I want it kicked by the best! And yes, I have shot FCGF in Big Matches in the GF category because FCGF wasn't offered.

 

There are already constraints about how many competitors need to be in a category for it to be offered so I don't see the issue. There are no age breaks in the BP categories, no Senior Left Hand Frontier Cartridge Duelists, just FC and FCD. Adding FCGF just fills out the options for us BP folks.

 

Personally, I think all categories should be offered at all matches, regardless of participation level. If the Match Director, or SASS, wants to put constraints on anything, let it be on the number of competitors required for the category to RECEIVE AWARDS, not to PARTICIPATE. I had one Match Director, at a club Annual Match, tell me that he couldn't offer FCGF because there were not enough competetors and I couldn't switch to GF for the same reason. I told him that was fine, I would shoot it anyway, just don't give me an award, but don't disallow me to participate as an FCGF competitor. If the MD felt the need to say anything at all, he could just say...

 

"And, in a Category By Himself, Shooting FCGF, Dogmeat Dad!"

 

It doesn't cost the club anything to let me do it. I don't get to walk around with a shiney buckle someone may think I didn't deserve, or take home a plaque to hang on a wall that no one will ever see. How does that diminish anybody elses participation or achievements? It doesn't.

 

FCGF is a category whos time has come. I hope it passes.

+1

[Cat Brules]

There are so many categories already, that a lot of members don't know that many of those categories even exist.

 

Furthermore, with so many categories (and with many of those poorly represented at matches), the presentation of awards, for the members at large, begins to become meaningless.

 

Shooters decide what and how they're going to shoot and how they will dress. It is NOT the best of many unpalatable choices. THEY decided. They aren't being discriminated against. THEY decided their gear and dress with full knowledge that competing with that gear might make them less competitive.

 

I'm not for new categories.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

There are so many categories already, that a lot of members don't know that many of those categories even exist.

 

Furthermore, with so many categories (and with many of those poorly represented at matches), the presentation of awards, for the members at large, begins to become meaningless.

 

Shooters decide what and how they're going to shoot and how they will dress. It is NOT the best of many unpalatable choices. THEY decided. They aren't being discriminated against. THEY decided their gear and dress with full knowledge that competing with that gear might make them less competitive.

 

I'm not for new categories.

So, if you were thinking about defining categories, what would your instincts be? FCGF has to be about as natural as breathing.

 

CR

[Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372]

There are so many categories already, that a lot of members don't know that many of those categories even exist.

 

Furthermore, with so many categories (and with many of those poorly represented at matches), the presentation of awards, for the members at large, begins to become meaningless.

 

Shooters decide what and how they're going to shoot and how they will dress. It is NOT the best of many unpalatable choices. THEY decided. They aren't being discriminated against. THEY decided their gear and dress with full knowledge that competing with that gear might make them less competitive.

 

I'm not for new categories.

When everyone is special, no one is special. All the categories with all the awards is like having college classes pass/fail so no one is offended by those doing very well. Might as well just hand each shooter a plaque for showing up.