FCGF is on the TG Agenda!

[Bill Bonney]

Howdy

 

Get a hold of all your SASS friends and get them to vote on the agenda items and then give their TG their vote. Your TG must vote at the convention (or through a proxy) the way the club(s) he or she represents vote.

 

So get out the club vote, and participate, this is your chance to make a difference.................your a daisy if you do ! ! ! !

 

Bill Bonney

[Colt Walker 45]

So have BP duelist, GF, and cartage. Same for smokeless. Move age based to buckaroo, then 18 - 60, and 60 and over. If you are still shooting at 75(give or take) then it's a separate catagory. And b western and classic as the only dress type. As far as gender, don't care as a lot of the ladies shoot every bit as good as their men counterparts.

[Wyatt]

I think that FCGF is worth 5 minutes of my time at every award ceremony so Pards can be recognized for their desired shooting style. They sit through mine

[Gawd Awful]

I think that FCGF is worth 5 minutes of my time at every award ceremony so Pards can be recognized for their desired shooting style. They sit though mine

Well said

[Outrider, SASS #72622]

Forgive my ignorance but...

If it does pass, when will we know?

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Forgive my ignorance but...

If it does pass, when will we know?

most likely during or after the SASS Convention. After January 9th?

 

http://www.wolverinerangers.org/pdf/2015TGSummit.pdf

 

GG ~

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Here's something to consider.

 

1) If ALL the TG agenda items have been presented in a simple and straightforward manner to all the clubs (which I trust they will be here shortly!)

 

2) and the TGs have gotten the direction or consensus of their clubs before going to Convention (which they are required to do!)

 

3) and the agenda items DON'T GET CHANGED so that the TG's have to try to guess what the club would want to do about the new agenda item which might mush together several that the clubs did vote on

 

4) and the TGs actually vote without much change from what the club's consensus was,

 

THEN we have a representative process

 

If ANY of these steps above (can you say, #3?) get subverted or shortcut during the run-up to the Convention, then we really don't have a representative body, and the TG process is whatever someone tries to subvert it into.

 

So, TGs and SASS, stick by the process!

 

Good luck (honestly and earnestly offered), GJ

[Outrider, SASS #72622]

most likely during or after the SASS Convention. After January 9th?

 

http://www.wolverinerangers.org/pdf/2015TGSummit.pdf

 

GG ~

Thanks Gunner.

 

I guess I don't get it. If it is even offered at EOT, why wouldn't it be made an official category?

[Anvil Al #59168]

Thanks Gunner.

 

I guess I don't get it. If it is even offered at EOT, why wouldn't it be made an official category?

 

 

Just because something is offered at a match. Even if it is EOT. That does not make it an official category.

 

EOT even though it is the World Championship. It is still just a match.

[Yusta B.]

 

 

Just because something is offered at a match. Even if it is EOT. That does not make it an official category.

 

EOT even though it is the World Championship. It is still just a match.

Yep - unofficial categories are entirely up to the MD for any shoot.

[Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER]

I understand the "no new categories" camp, but FCGF is not a redheaded left handed one legged category.

 

It is a SASS accepted shooting style using a SASS accepted propellent that is afforded a certain amount of protection in every other SASS accepted shooting style.

 

It is time to recognize FCGF.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Smoke

[Blastmaster]

I understand the "no new categories" camp, but FCGF is not a redheaded left handed one legged category.

 

It is a SASS accepted shooting style using a SASS accepted propellent that is afforded a certain amount of protection in every other SASS accepted shooting style.

 

It is time to recognize FCGF.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Smoke

Here, here.

 

Let us then not overlook Senior FCGF folks. Make a cat. for them too.

 

In for a penney, in for a pound I say.

 

We're in it for the entertainment,,,, and the rest is history.

 

Edit;

Probably most MD offer the unofficial categories now. Ecomics says the match will make money even if awards are giving out to all official/unofficial category winners, even if they are under poplulated. Saves hard feelings too. So the unofficial category winners are getting awards now,,,, or most of the time.

 

The thing that is gained if any new category is reconized is the bragging rights to be called the official State/national/world Champion of a Category.

 

And we are not playing for Cadillacs and just for fun?

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Here, here.

 

Let us then not overlook Senior FCGF folks. Make a cat. for them too.

 

In for a penney, in for a pound I say.

 

 

Where did you come up with this non-sequitur? Please don't put words in our mouths. One of our biggest arguments for this is that we don't have age related breakouts. The addition of this ONE category only puts the field where it should have been all along.

 

CR

[Blastmaster]

Where did you come up with this non-sequitur? Please don't put words in our mouths. One of our biggest arguments for this is that we don't have age related breakouts. The addition of this ONE category only puts the field where it should have been all along.

 

CR

Well, they've divided Gunfighter style into two categories,,, a) gunfighter & Senior gunfighter.

 

So just following through with the logic of making FCGF into two categories (regular & Senior) so people have choice and more opportunity to have fun.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Well, they've divided Gunfighter style into two categories,,, a) gunfighter & Senior gunfighter.

 

So just following through with the logic of making FCGF into two categories (regular & Senior) so people have choice and more opportunity to have fun.

 

Senior Gunfighter is NOT an "officially recognized" category, either...no matter how many matches currently offer it.

 

There IS an agenda item regarding adding aged-based breakdowns to basic style/propellant/costume categories.

 

That is NOT what we are discussing on this thread.

 

I have yet to see anyone post a reasonable objection to official recognition of FCGF.

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

My Clubs supported it last time and I think they will this time, just waiting to hear from them on voting, as far as I'm concerned my opinion only I'm in full support.

 

KK

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

 

Senior Gunfighter is NOT an "officially recognized" category, either...no matter how many matches currently offer it.

 

There IS an agenda item regarding adding aged-based breakdowns to basic style/propellant/costume categories.

 

That is NOT what we are discussing on this thread.

 

I have yet to see anyone post a reasonable objection to official recognition of FCGF.

Thanks pard.

 

GG

[Judge'm All Duncan, SASS#67320]

 

Well said PWB!!!

 

FCGF IS A CATEGORY WHOSE TIME HAS COME.

 

Get out and vote at your club's so the TG's will VOTE.

[Missouri Marshal SASS #50682]

Well I know at least 4 clubs that will support it, at least they always have in the past.

[Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER]

 

 

I have yet to see anyone post a reasonable objection to official recognition of FCGF.

+1

[Blastmaster]

 

Senior Gunfighter is NOT an "officially recognized" category, either...no matter how many matches currently offer it.

 

There IS an agenda item regarding adding aged-based breakdowns to basic style/propellant/costume categories.

 

That is NOT what we are discussing on this thread.

 

I have yet to see anyone post a reasonable objection to official recognition of FCGF.

Yes, PWB, I know.

 

When major matches (annual and above) routinely offer an unofficial category, such as Senior Gunfighter, and people sign up, and awards are given, then it really doesn't matter any more if it is 'officially' recognized. Does it? Bragging rights are given and accepted,,,, and vast majority of SASS members and people off the street will not have a clue who is an official or unofficial category winner, when they are talking to the winner, or see their buckle.

 

Perhaps I am speculating too far and the 'unofficial' category winner was never given an award at these higher level matches.

 

I really don't care if FCGF and/or Senior whatever are voted in. The dilution factor for the winners continues to increase.

 

I do find it entertaining to study and witness the human behavior on several of these topics on the Wire and at matches, since there are no prizes given.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

The point is that SASS-sanctioned matches (State level and above) are not required to even OFFER any categories that are not "officially recognized". Those currently include some of the “upper end” age-based categories (any that are beyond Elder Statesman/Grand Dame), as well as perennial Regional favorites such as “Outlaw”, “Josey Wales”, “Pale Rider” and others that may have large local following such as SGF and FCGF.

 

Many DO, at the request of those competitors who feel they can muster the required minimum number of participants to qualify (those numbers are set by the Match Director) for recognition and/or awards. The SASS-sanctioning contracts also note that minimums may be required.

 

Adding FCGF to the list of OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZED categories (REF: SHB pp. 13-16) will mean that those sanctioned matches will have to, at least, put that option on their match applications (with or without a gender split, which has never been mandatory), and no reason to further break down by age.

 

They can still require a minimum number to honor those choosing to shoot in FCGF as with ANY category, sanctioned or not (although the <17 cats are considered “protected” from any minimum requirements; as well as the more advanced “age-based”); and give them the opportunity to list another category of their choice if that minimum is not met.

 

[Blastmaster]

Thank you.

 

I believe that ship has sailed and the camel is in the tent for most State and above shoots. Meaning most if not all unofficial categories are being offered. Heck, it would be financially foolish to not offer unofficial categories at a match. Match isn't loosing money by offering whatever category. Another $10 award brings in how much revenue? Well, the revenue is more than the award. Makes people happy too.

 

Another thought on the FCGF category. It would be nice 'if' the shooters had to shoot the more robust 40 caliber cartridges, such as the 45Colt, 44-40, and 38-40. Not the milder 45CS, 44Russian, 45Schofield, 32mag, 38/357. But that is just my opinion. I don't have a dog in the fight, but it would be nice to see.

[Blackwater 53393]

As you might expect, I'm with Judge 'em all Duncan on this one! It IS a category whose time has come!! A far as caliber restrictions, I shoot 45 Colt, often in full house form. I think caliber restrictions are counter productive in this instance. 31, 36, and 38 cal. guns were much more common than some give recognition to back in the 1800s. That is good enough for me!!

[Tyrel Cody]

Thank you.

 

I believe that ship has sailed and the camel is in the tent for most State and above shoots. Meaning most if not all unofficial categories are being offered. Heck, it would be financially foolish to not offer unofficial categories at a match. Match isn't loosing money by offering whatever category. Another $10 award brings in how much revenue? Well, the revenue is more than the award. Makes people happy too.

 

Another thought on the FCGF category. It would be nice 'if' the shooters had to shoot the more robust 40 caliber cartridges, such as the 45Colt, 44-40, and 38-40. Not the milder 45CS, 44Russian, 45Schofield, 32mag, 38/357. But that is just my opinion. I don't have a dog in the fight, but it would be nice to see.

Please stop trying to add stuff, those of us that strictly shoot this category would like for it to become official.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Thank you.

 

I believe that ship has sailed and the camel is in the tent for most State and above shoots.

Meaning most if not all unofficial categories are being offered.

NO...they are NOT...which is why FCGF is up for "official recognition" (again)

...under the same criteria it has always been propose, BTW...with no additional regs or restrictions.

 

Heck, it would be financially foolish to not offer unofficial categories at a match. Match isn't loosing money by offering whatever category. Another $10 award brings in how much revenue? Well, the revenue is more than the award. Makes people happy too.

It's not about the cost of awards/trophies/buckles...it's about equity with the smokeless categories...as written in the original proposal.

 

Another thought on the FCGF category. It would be nice 'if' the shooters had to shoot the more robust 40 caliber cartridges, such as the 45Colt, 44-40, and 38-40. Not the milder 45CS, 44Russian, 45Schofield, 32mag, 38/357. But that is just my opinion. I don't have a dog in the fight, but it would be nice to see.

There IS a minimum SMOKE FACTOR that must be met for ALL BP shooters. IMO...no need to tack on caliber restrictions.

[Blastmaster]

So be it Blackwater & Tyrell. Let the lease recoil and lease amount of smoke cartridges rule.

 

I don't have a dog in the fight.

 

Have fun.

[Tyrel Cody]

Let's just get this voted in and us FCGFers will worry about smoke, flame and age amongst ourselves.

[Blackwater 53393]

I always have fun!! I shoot a ten gage hammer double with 140 grains of FFFg and an ounce and a half of shot. I also shoot sometimes with 41 gr. of FFFg and a 250 gr. bullet in pistol and rifle when the notion takes me. Some of my best friends are Splitrail, Stone Creek Drifter, Fingers McGee, Noz, and Cleve and Fire 'n' Fallback as well as Judge 'em all Duncan and Tyrel Cody. I shoot Frontiersman, FCGF, Frontier Cartridge, and Pale Rider Gunfighter.

 

All of that being said, I am happy to shoot with the guys who shoot the lighter loads, the guys who shoot smokeless, the guys who shoot one pistol using two hands, the Juniors and Buckaroos, and the oldest active shooter in S.A.S.S.!! If they are having fun, I'm probably just as happy as they are and I really get a kick out of seeing them receive awards in their respective categories come banquet time.

 

If all you care about is who shot Top Cowboy or overall winner, that's your pleasure. I got no problem with that either, but I suspect that you are missing out on a lot of good times if that is all you enjoy!!

[Snakebite]

This FCGF category has been proposed and shot down so many times that I'm starting to think that the "Proposal" itself is becoming a Place Filler in the Agenda. IMO, there are not enough folks to fill such a category at any match, other than on the wire. On the other hand, if you could just get WR to offer Senior FC, I believe that it would fill very quickly.

 

Snakebite

[Blackwater 53393]

At the two most recent matches I have participated in, A State match and a Regional, there were six and seven FCGFs respectively. Two others shot other categories to accept challenges from friends who were there. When it was offered two years ago at EOT there were 14 FCGFs if I recall correctly! It is very popular in the Southeast and the Midwest.

 

 

Maybe California isn't so forward thinking after all....

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

The time has come to make this category officially recognized.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Thank you.

 

I believe that ship has sailed and the camel is in the tent for most State and above shoots. Meaning most if not all unofficial categories are being offered. Heck, it would be financially foolish to not offer unofficial categories at a match. Match isn't loosing money by offering whatever category. Another $10 award brings in how much revenue? Well, the revenue is more than the award. Makes people happy too.

 

Another thought on the FCGF category. It would be nice 'if' the shooters had to shoot the more robust 40 caliber cartridges, such as the 45Colt, 44-40, and 38-40. Not the milder 45CS, 44Russian, 45Schofield, 32mag, 38/357. But that is just my opinion. I don't have a dog in the fight, but it would be nice to see.

 

 

I don't have a dog in the fight.

 

Have fun.

 

For not having a dog in the fight, you sure are vocal. In addition to lobbying against the category you muddy the waters by insinuating that other addenda be included that have nothing to do with the agenda item. Next you'll be suggesting that we separate blue eyes and brown eyes. If you are against it, so be it - argue your point. But fercrissake stay on topic!

 

CR

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

We had a total of 10 Frontier Cartridge Gunfighters at the Michigan State championship this year. I consider that good participation for a 225 person shoot. I am pretty sure the two clubs I represent will vote for this proposal. The FCGF's I know are very passionate about the category and will continue to shoot it whether or not it's officially voted in.

[Most Wanted]

I usually am not for new catagories because they are just an age break down of existing catagories. But this is a catagory that in some regions the numbers shooting it will exceed many aged based catagories. There is a system in place at many matches that will drop a catagory if under populated. So no big deal for MDs that don't have many in their area. This is a Shooting Style / Propellent catagory that should be made official and I have a hard time believing it isn't. But history has shown that as the average age of SASS gets older the focus becomes more about age break downs. There's a lot of "ME" mentality to get around in adding a catagory that has nothing to do with age. Good luck this year!!