FCGF is on the TG Agenda!

[Earl Brasse, SASS #3562]

FCGF only hop around in different categories because we don't have one!

 

If shooting black powder was easy and if shooting gunfighter was easy, the category would be overloaded with people and divided up into a ton of age-based, clothes-based divisions like the Smokeless Ones. We do it because we love it, not so much to snatch a trinket. New BP shooters have gun issues, lube issues, cleaning issues, all kinds of things as they work that learning curve. The Gunfighter learning curve is pretty tough, too. Put 'em together and it's a lot of work for that few seconds of being able to do the coolest thing in the whole world that not many folks are able, willing or interested enough to put in the effort to accomplish. You can't just buy a couple a boxes of ammo and show up and shoot FCGF like you can in 49er or Cowboy or the other categories. It takes a lot of work and planning and practice just to show up and suck at it in the beginning.

 

Some matches that offer FCGF have offered to create a ladies version just for me - absolutely not! I don't want it. If some other ladies want to shoot black powder gunfighter style, I'm in. I'm fine shooting with my Soot Brothers and would rather do that than shoot with the Smokeless LGF. I don't belong with them, I belong with the BP shooters. I don't think smokeless shooters understand us.

 

You always have style Lou.

 

FCGF, the time is right. (Now)

 

Gun control is using both hands at the same time.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

I really want this to be a category because the one guy at my club that keeps beating me gunfighter does so with black powder. I might get first place if he moved over to fcgf. But knowing me, I'd just end up following him anyway.

[Blastmaster]

 

Most anyone will tell you when it comes right down to it that this is a game, not a sport.

 

Bull fighting, racing motor vehicles, and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are games. That thought is attributed to Ernest Hemingway. That's why they're called the "Olympic Games"!!!

 

And yeah!! You ARE stirring the pot!! 'S okay!! I got's me a big spoon too!!

Perhaps I am Stirring the Pot but not intentional , but it is rather entertaining dissecting this topic to figure out the motives of the interested parties.

 

First, Definitions:

 

Sport:

an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

 

 

Game:

a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

 

Entertainment.

the action of providing or being provided with amusement or enjoyment.You are correct, it is more of a Game... very similar definitions, but one has physical exertion and the other doesn't.

 

 

Several pards way back up the ladder said it was 'entertainment'... That struck a cord that I can rap my brain around. Yep, that is about sums it up and I can live with.

 

 

As far as I can tell, anyone can shoot FCGF at any match. There are two official Cats (GF and BW, or is that CC?) and one unofficial SGF that allow GF style. If one can not shoot FCGF in any way shape or form,,, then that is even wrong in my view. Wow!

 

Several have said they shoot it for fun and not to win an award. For those, it shouldn't matter then if there is an official cat.

 

Lou Graham has the best post.

 

Is FCGF difficult? Absolutely. Putting ones foot into a bucket and then shooting is difficult too. Shooting left handed and with a foot in a bucket is even harder. It was the shooters choice to up the challenge to themselves. Salute!!

 

I believe the BP shooters generally do have more fun that the smokeless.

 

Who draws the attention of spectators and who represents the fictional cowboy era to the spectators? The BP shooters and especially the FCGF with the huge booms, flame and smoke. The little 32/38 calibers pling-plings,,, not so much.

 

So, if FCGF shooters are in it just for the fun (which all shooters want) and not for the awards, then why campaign for an official cat?

Answer, for the award. That has to be it,,, what else can it be?

 

BTW, I did research on three biggy matches and how many GF of any shape or size attended.

 

EOT14

16-GF

16-SGF

9- FCGF (a true representation)

 

WR14

16-SGF

21-GF

15-LGF

no FCGF and presume they were mixed in with the regular GF's. If there was a FCGF cat, then the numbers in the SGF/GF would be something less.

 

Bordertown 14

13-GF

3-LGF

no FCGF and presume they were mixed in with the regular GF's, If there was a FCGF cat, then the numbers in the SGF/GF would be something less. even more less if you broke out the men/women.

 

Deuce had 10 out of 250,, which is a leg above.

 

 

I pondered my area and the eight clubs and how many FCGF shooters.. I can not think of one... I can think of just one, possible two shooters that shoot GF style. Surely, I made a mistake, so throw in another for good measures. Now I admit, that these clubs are smallish. Add all memberships/shooters up and possible there is a grand total of 100 shooters, maybe 120. You would think there would at least be one.

 

In conclusion:

You all are right, I am wrong. This is an entertainment event with a vary high bar

Open up the tent and let FCGF cat. in.

Open up the tent and let the Senior FCGF cat. in, even though they haven't asked

Open up the tent and let the Baptist shooters Cat. in, they/he have asked.

Open up a left hand, two fisted shooter cat. in .,,,, well, why not?

 

As I have mentioned a while back, it shouldn't be a financial burden on the Match Organizers and Match Organizers can offer unofficial anything category

 

I finally get it!! Wishing you all well.

 

Blastmaster

 

 

 

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

I am just so glad to have your blessing!!!!

[Tyrel Cody]

Perhaps I am Stirring the Pot but not intentional , but it is rather entertaining dissecting this topic to figure out the motives of the interested parties.[/size]

 

First, Definitions:

 

Sport:[/size]

an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.[/size]

 

 

Game:[/size]

a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.[/size]

 

Entertainment.[/size]

the action of providing or being provided with amusement or enjoyment.[/size]You are correct, it is more of a Game... very similar definitions, but one has physical exertion and the other doesn't.

 

 

Several pards way back up the ladder said it was 'entertainment'... That struck a cord that I can rap my brain around. Yep, that is about sums it up and I can live with.

 

 

As far as I can tell, anyone can shoot FCGF at any match. There are two official Cats (GF and BW, or is that CC?) and one unofficial SGF that allow GF style. If one can not shoot FCGF in any way shape or form,,, then that is even wrong in my view. Wow!

 

Several have said they shoot it for fun and not to win an award. For those, it shouldn't matter then if there is an official cat.

 

Lou Graham has the best post. A great post indeed!

 

Is FCGF difficult? Absolutely. Putting ones foot into a bucket and then shooting is difficult too. Shooting left handed and with a foot in a bucket is even harder. It was the shooters choice to up the challenge to themselves. Salute!!

 

I believe the BP shooters generally do have more fun that the smokeless.

 

Who draws the attention of spectators and who represents the fictional cowboy era to the spectators? The BP shooters and especially the FCGF with the huge booms, flame and smoke. The little 32/38 calibers pling-plings,,, not so much.

 

So, if FCGF shooters are in it just for the fun (which all shooters want) and not for the awards, then why campaign for an official cat?

Answer, for the award. That has to be it,,, what else can it be?Wrong, the main reason is that there are clubs that use Aces and we cannot sign up and shoot our category.

 

BTW, I did research on three biggy matches and how many GF of any shape or size attended.

 

EOT14

16-GF

16-SGF

9- FCGF (a true representation)

 

WR14

16-SGF

21-GF

15-LGF

no FCGF and presume they were mixed in with the regular GF's. If there was a FCGF cat, then the numbers in the SGF/GF would be something less.

 

Bordertown 14

13-GF

3-LGF

no FCGF and presume they were mixed in with the regular GF's, If there was a FCGF cat, then the numbers in the SGF/GF would be something less. even more less if you broke out the men/women.

 

Deuce had 10 out of 250,, which is a leg above.

 

 

I pondered my area and the eight clubs and how many FCGF shooters.. I can not think of one... I can think of just one, possible two shooters that shoot GF style. Surely, I made a mistake, so throw in another for good measures. Now I admit, that these clubs are smallish. Add all memberships/shooters up and possible there is a grand total of 100 shooters, maybe 120. You would think there would at least be one.

 

In conclusion:

You all are right, I am wrong. About time you admitted that This is an entertainment event with a vary high bar

Open up the tent and let FCGF cat. in.

Open up the tent and let the Senior FCGF cat. in, even though they haven't asked

Open up the tent and let the Baptist shooters Cat. in, they/he have asked.

Open up a left hand, two fisted shooter cat. in .,,,, well, why not?

 

As I have mentioned a while back, it shouldn't be a financial burden on the Match Organizers and Match Organizers can offer unofficial anything category

 

I finally get it!! Wishing you all well.

 

Blastmaster

 

[Tyrel Cody]

I am just so glad to have your blessing!!!!

It is a relief.

 

Hey CC, does that mean you're gonna play FCGF with us?

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

I do sometimes, got two regional buckles too!!! Mason Dixon and comin at cha!!

 

and some states as well....

[Judge'm All Duncan, SASS#67320]

Mr. Culpeper has shot PLENTY of FCGF.

 

He has shot PLENTY of BW Gunfighter.

 

If I'm not mistaken, he has shot Sr. GF also.

 

I know he loves to shoot BP as much as I do.

 

I would love to see all of these BP shooters get together and introduce Blastmaster to the WONDERFUL WORLD OF BLACK POWDER.

I JUST FIND IT KIND OF STRANGE THAT THIS COWBOY ONLY POST IN TOPICS TO STIR THE POT.

 

It's a big world and you need to get out and see more of it.

[Tyrel Cody]

I'd like that too Judge. I'd let him use my guns and ammo and buy him a drink of his choice afterward.

 

Hoping to get to shoot with Mr Culpepper at the Ohio State 2015, really hope FCGF is official then.

[Birdie Cage, SASS #32773L]

Folks, FCGF is the purest form of our sport.

 

Did John Wayne use two hands (as in our old Traditional category)? Did Wyatt Earp use smokeless loads? Nope.

 

Plus, our sport is entertainment. FCGF guys (and our special Soot-Diva Miz Lou) provide great entertainment. They work hard at it and they've been doing it for years without credit. They deserve to be officially recognized.

 

AND if you are in the northeast it is certainly NOT a low use category -- we've got plenty at monthly and major matches.

 

Its time. Give it to 'em.

 

~ Birdie

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

Thank you Judge!!!

 

TC, you come to OH and I'll shoot it with you, they'll have it regardless,,,

[Blackwater 53393]

Since I shoot almost every category except Buckaroo, Junior, the Ladies' categories, B Western, (I don't have the required leather or a post '73 rifle) or the above age 65 categories, (haven't lived that long yet) I won't descend into the "Let's add this or eliminate that category" debate. I really don't want to see someone else's category sacrificed just so we can have one of our own. I hope that the TGs will see the wisdom of recognition for these dedicated shooters and vote to make it happen.

 

Perhaps Blastmaster shoots in a part of the country where FCGF and maybe even GF are few and far between. There would have been 10 FCGF shooters at CAC if Fire 'n' Fallback hadn't accepted a challenge from Nuttin' Graceful to shoot Frontiersman and I hadn't taken up with the Outlaws for a few matches. We had seven at Tennessee. Woulda' been eight if I hadn't committed to Outlaw for the Triple Crown. In short, we got a lot of FCGFs most places I go, and they would like a category of their own to be recognized when they shoot their choice of disciplines. At Tennessee this year we had around forty Gunfighters of one description or another at a match that had 236 actual participants. There were a bunch of happy folks during and after the match!

 

As I said earlier, I shoot for the fun of it and to see old friends and find new ones. I don't let it bother me if I don't win. I drag raced and raced cars, boats, and motorcycles for too long to let losing bother me. I DO however like a little recognition and perhaps a small reminder if I do well! Most of the rest of us do as well. I figured out a long time ago that if you are only satisfied when you're the top dog, you will spend a lot of time dissatisfied. I've been fortunate! I've had a victory or two at everything I've tried. (Fortunate HELL! I've been d@mned lucky!!)

 

So thank you to all of those who have worked to make our category recognized by S.A.S.S.!! Thanks to all who support our efforts, whoever and wherever you are. Frankly.................I'm feelin' lucky tonight!!!

[Judge'm All Duncan, SASS#67320]

 

BLACKWATER,

 

YOU ARE THE MAN!!

 

You know I would and will shoot with you, CC and Tyrel anytime and anywhere.

[Blackwater 53393]

WALLY!! You know that goes both ways, my brother!!

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

WALLY!! You know that goes both ways, my brother!!

Guess that makes you "the Beav"?

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Yes! FCGF should be an official category. It only makes sense, after all, every other shooting category has it's FC counterpart recognized.

[Blackwater 53393]

Guess that makes you "the Beav"?

 

 

Hey Buffy!!

 

No cracks from the peanut gallery!!

 

 

What do you think about the proposal, Oh great one armed bandit????

 

 

anybody as old as you 'n' still falls outa' bed

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Perhaps I am Stirring the Pot but not intentional , but it is rather entertaining dissecting this topic to figure out the motives of the interested parties.

 

 

Open up the tent and let FCGF cat. in.

Open up the tent and let the Senior FCGF cat. in, even though they haven't asked

Open up a left hand, two fisted shooter cat. in .,,,, well, why not?

 

 

 

I finally get it!! Wishing you all well.

 

Blastmaster

 

 

 

What I get is your sarcasm. What are YOU in the game for? Obviously, your needs/wants are met, so why accommodate anyone else? I really think your motive is to stir the pot, as you continue to blindly assert that we are after more than we are asking. Other than your snide observations, I have not seen a cogent argument proffered in any of your posts. There are those who maintain that they are categorically against new categories. While this is disappointing to me, I respect their input. Your actions are those of a gadfly, with no motive except to argue. Other than using this forum to belittle others, do you have a valid, cohesive argument against the proposal?

 

CR

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

Hey Buffy!!

 

No cracks from the peanut gallery!!

 

 

What do you think about the proposal, Oh great one armed bandit????

 

 

anybody as old as you 'n' still falls outa' bed

No brainer, the time has come for FCGF.

[Blastmaster]

What I get is your sarcasm. What are YOU in the game for? Obviously, your needs/wants are met, so why accommodate anyone else? I really think your motive is to stir the pot, as you continue to blindly assert that we are after more than we are asking. Other than your snide observations, I have not seen a cogent argument proffered in any of your posts. There are those who maintain that they are categorically against new categories. While this is disappointing to me, I respect their input. Your actions are those of a gadfly, with no motive except to argue. Other than using this forum to belittle others, do you have a valid, cohesive argument against the proposal?

 

CR

Reread the last line of the post you responded to.

 

Anything more, then I would be repeating myself.

[Oklahomabound]

...+1 for its time to make FCGF an official SASS category....

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Reread the last line of the post you responded to.

 

Anything more, then I would be repeating myself.

Blast master,

 

You prefaced your acquiescence with so many disparaging remarks it was hard to tell if you were serious. Welcome to the pro side, and thank you for your support.

 

CR

[levi littleton]

[levi littleton]

Sport:

an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

 

Game:

a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

 

 

Ya missed the important part of all that. To put ""motor racing, climbing and bull fighting" into context as originally intended. A "real" Sport adds the distinct possibility of dying. Playing Games do not typically end in death. Sports don't have rules, games do. Make the rules, make it fair and move on.

 

Age group cuts make it "more fair". BP and smokeless breaks make it more fair.

[Blastmaster]

Ya missed the important part of all that. To put ""motor racing, climbing and bull fighting" into context as originally intended. A "real" Sport adds the distinct possibility of dying. Playing Games do not typically end in death. Sports don't have rules, games do. Make the rules, make it fair and move on.

 

Age group cuts make it "more fair". BP and smokeless breaks make it more fair.

Those were definitions taken from an internet dictionary. Sounds like you are adding/deleting what you want.

 

Can you give reference to a "real" Sport adds to the distinct possibility of dying?

 

Is "more fair' kinda like 'more gooder'?

 

Perhaps you should start a new thread if you want to continue.

[Blackwater 53393]

The reference to "Sport" above is from comments made by Hemingway as I said in one of my previous posts, and "more fair" is perfectly acceptable in this context.

 

Welcome, Mr Littleton!! Always open to new, (and varying) points of view from fresh perspectives.

 

Nevermind Mr. Blastmaster. I think he may be becoming a contrarian!!

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

I think Blastmaster and Cat Brules are brothers, maybe twins!!

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

CAS is easily a 'sport' (and it can be a game) - geez...ever hear of the term 'firearm SPORTS'??...never heard of firearm 'GAMES' now that I think of it.

 

GG ~

[levi littleton]

I spent a few minutes scanning this conversation last night. Much of it worthy opinion or original thought.

 

An idget comment gets called on "definitions taken from an internet dictionary" with out knowing their actual context? Really?

 

FCGF seem about as natural as CAS is every going to get.

 

CAS/SASS/Wild Bunch/Zoot/IDPA/IPSC/NCOWS/Skeet/ Trap/Sporting Clays/Bullseye are all shooting sports. Some are just dummer than others. Usually the level of dumb multiplies as you start thinking your particular sport is "more real" than the next shooting sport.

 

FCGF simply emulates actual historical fact. But then so does B Western :-)

[Gawd Awful]

I have a few questions for all the people against FCGF

 

Does it DIRECTLY affect you???

 

Are you currently shooting GF?????

 

Are you writing checks from you personal bank account for the awards??

 

If the answer to the above question is "no" then why do you care??? Why are you so willing to deny other peoples fun??? If your not shooting GF with BP (or interested in doing it) than this doesn't really affect you at all and you already shoot a different style with a catagorey that already exists, so please quit acting like it somehow negatively affects you personally.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I have a few questions for all the people against FCGF

 

Does it DIRECTLY affect you???

 

Are you currently shooting GF?????

 

Are you writing checks from you personal bank account for the awards??

 

If the answer to the above question is "no" then why do you care??? Why are you so willing to deny other peoples fun??? If your not shooting GF with BP (or interested in doing it) than this doesn't really affect you at all and you already shoot a different style with a catagorey that already exists, so please quit acting like it somehow negatively affects you personally.

Is that all that it is?

 

Based on this analysis of the arguement against FCGF, you'd never be able to vote NO on any new category introduction.

 

Where were you on the elimination of the MODERN category?

 

That was done so that we could get age based categories without adding any new ones...which at the time was almost a requirement.

 

But...what do I know...

 

Phantom

[Anvil Al #59168]

I have a few questions for all the people against FCGF

 

Does it DIRECTLY affect you???

 

Are you currently shooting GF?????

 

Are you writing checks from you personal bank account for the awards??

 

If the answer to the above question is "no" then why do you care??? Why are you so willing to deny other peoples fun??? If your not shooting GF with BP (or interested in doing it) than this doesn't really affect you at all and you already shoot a different style with a catagorey that already exists, so please quit acting like it somehow negatively affects you personally.

 

 

It does affect others. As the ones going into that category are affecting others.

 

Either pulling from GFer, Or Duelist, Or FC Duelist.

 

Now I am asking my TG to vote yes even though I was against it in the past.

 

As I feel it is an embarrassment to have so many category's with so few in them.

 

And yes. I think even 10-15 in a match with 400+ in a category is not much.

Don't see anything wrong with 40-50 in a category.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Is that all that it is?

 

Based on this analysis of the arguement against FCGF, you'd never be able to vote NO on any new category introduction.

 

Where were you on the elimination of the MODERN category?

 

That was done so that we could get age based categories without adding any new ones...which at the time was almost a requirement.

 

But...what do I know...

 

Phantom

The death of Modern was not pretty. It sure felt as though there should have been an easier way to configure the categories than what happened, even if Modern became like BP - no age breakouts.

 

Other than a blanket objection to new categories, why should this agenda item not be approved?

 

CR

[Gawd Awful]

Is that all that it is?

 

Based on this analysis of the arguement against FCGF, you'd never be able to vote NO on any new category introduction.

 

Where were you on the elimination of the MODERN category?

 

That was done so that we could get age based categories without adding any new ones...which at the time was almost a requirement.

 

But...what do I know...

 

Phantom

To answer your question ......... There was no "modern" when I joined

 

But yes if you follow my logic, if there is a market, and you can SAFELY provide what the customers want than why wouldn't you???

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

 

 

It does affect others. As the ones going into that category are affecting others.

 

Either pulling from GFer, Or Duelist, Or FC Duelist.

 

Now I am asking my TG to vote yes even though I was against it in the past.

 

As I feel it is an embarrassment to have so many category's with so few in them.

 

And yes. I think even 10-15 in a match with 400+ in a category is not much.

Don't see anything wrong with 40-50 in a category.

 

Thanks

 

GG ~