FCGF is on the TG Agenda!

[Judge'm All Duncan, SASS#67320]

Blackwater, Stone Creek Drifter, myself and a few others got this voted on three years ago. As BW mentioned the poison pill was added which kept it from getting passed.

 

My hope is that the TG's will VOTE. YES!!!!!

 

I mean after all....

 

WHAT LOOKS MORE COWBOY THAN TWO REVOLVERS BELCHING SMOKE AND FIRE!!!!

 

IMO it does not get more cowboy than that.

 

I have shot BP against all the Gunfighters in the club's that I shoot at. Heck I even shot it at EOT against the smokeless guys.

 

The time has come to recognize it.

 

Get your TG to Vote for it.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Blackwater, Stone Creek Drifter, myself and a few others got this voted on three years ago. As BW mentioned the poison pill was added which kept it from getting passed.

 

My hope is that the TG's will VOTE. YES!!!!!

 

I mean after all....

 

WHAT LOOKS MORE COWBOY THAN TWO REVOLVERS BELCHING SMOKE AND FIRE!!!!

 

IMO it does not get more cowboy than that.

 

I have shot BP against all the Gunfighters in the club's that I shoot at. Heck I even shot it at EOT against the smokeless guys.

 

The time has come to recognize it.

 

Get your TG to Vote for it.

 

Yessir - I sent a text to my TG - I believe he is on board...will see

 

GG ~

[John Henry Quick]

I doubt that I will ever shoot in any Gunfighter in any cat., just not talented OR smart enuff to figure it out...

 

Pard, if I'm bright enough to do it, then ANYONE can! I may always be at the bottom of the category, but so far I've never been at the bottom overall, and even if I ever do walk away from a match dead last, I'll still walk away with a stupid grin on my face because nothing has been more fun than FCGF!

[Henry T Harrison]

Why not makes about as much sense as a Baptist caterogy. (Sorry Bird gun) Every one needs recognition, look honey I took first place of course we forget to say there were only two of us.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Why not makes about as much sense as a Baptist caterogy. (Sorry Bird Gun) Every one needs recognition, look honey I took first place of course we forget to say there were only two of us.

 

 

GG ~

[Jackson Rose, SASS #45478]

FCGF makes a lot more sense than DD or FCDD which were offered at a recent state match.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

There's already more FCGF's at local shoots than FC Duelists or FC. Why not??

I see...so if we already have a poorly populated category...let add another!

 

Don't see the logic in that...but that's just me.

 

Phantom

[Blastmaster]

Many have stressed that our sport is "entertainment", but seem to fail to understand that getting a plaque, even in a category with few shooters, is a big part of the entertainment...

Agree about the entertainment point of view.

 

Then give a plaque to all and be done with it.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

In this part of the world we can get 4 or 5 FGCF at a 50 to 60 shooter local match. Most places I go have the category available. I guess if it's not raining at your place it's not raining anywhere? This proposal only provides the same shooting styles available to smokeless shooters, except we do not have age based breakouts. BP cartridge is 3 categories per gender. Smokeless should be so simple.

 

CR

Well thanks for insulting my intelligence.

 

I'll use your same logic...or at least apply the same silliness to your position.

 

If it's raining at your place, it's raining everywhere.

 

Oy...

 

Phantom

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

I strongly support a FCGF category.

 

However, please don't poison the well on this new category by trying to force gunfighter style into a very well designed Classic Cowboy category. CC is predominantly a shooting style category. It has been duelist since created. Leave it alone.

 

 

Good luck, GJ

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

I strongly support a FCGF category.

 

However, please don't poison the well on this new category by trying to force gunfighter style into a very well designed Classic Cowboy category. CC is predominantly a shooting style category. It has been duelist since created. Leave it alone.

 

 

Good luck, GJ

 

Thanks for your support pard.

 

GG ~

[J-BAR #18287]

Agree about the entertainment point of view.

 

Then give a plaque to all and be done with it.

 

 

I have received plaques for being the only shooter in a category. I don't display or talk about those.

 

But the quality of the competition determines the pride, not the number of shooters in a category.

 

If I ever beat The Brisco Kid in Frontiersman and we are the only two shooters in that category, I'm gonna put that plaque on my Christmas cards!!

[Blackwater 53393]

At the most recent Tennessee State S.A.S.S. Championships, we had nearly 45 Gunfighters of one description or another. 230 registered shooters, 226 of which actually shot the match with a waiting list that would have probably made 250 shooters. There were 8 or 9 FCGFs and as many Outlaws as well.

 

It ain't no sparsely inhabited category in these parts!!

 

 

If I recall correctly, there were a large number of FCGFs at CaC this year as well! I LIKE having two guns out and blazing away sometimes. It's nice to have a category for Frontiersman, but sometimes I just want to pull 'em both and blow things up!!

 

There are other "sparsely inhabited" categories that we keep just because it is the right thing to do!! Outlaw will likely NEVER become a recognized category because of the "shooting without aiming" perception, and I'm good with that. The perception ain't exactly true or correct, but some folks will never be convinced and some ranges already have enough things going against them. We'll choose our spots and be happy doing it. But Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter is a category who's time has come and I hope it finally gets done!!!

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Well thanks for insulting my intelligence.

 

I'll use your same logic...or at least apply the same silliness to your position.

 

If it's raining at your place, it's raining everywhere.

 

Oy...

 

Phantom

Perhaps my analogy was crude, but if it's just poorly populated categories that get under your skin, why not just eliminate a few of them? Your argument seems to lie in the fact that you don't see very many, so there must not be very many. Maybe so where you shoot, but here in the midwest there is a healthy appetite for this one. Ergo, we can't understand the resistance any more than you can understand the insistence.

 

We're not asking much because there are no age breakouts in BP. Every smokeless shooting style has age divisions for each time you get 6 months older. All we're asking is to have an official category for each shooting style (same as smokeless), but without the addition of several age brackets (unlike smokeless).

 

CR

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

I just hope they don't attach some "poison pill" amendment to the proposition. Last time it would have passed easily except for the fact that they added an amendment to eliminate some categories, specifically Grande Dame, to the proposal effectively killing it's chance of getting the required percentage of "yes" votes.

 

It received a majority of affirmative votes, but many TGs couldn't bring themselves to eliminate the other categories threatened in the proposal, and rightly so.

 

Anyone with a third of a brain could recognize the chicanery of that situation!!

 

 

Blackwater, Stone Creek Drifter, myself and a few others got this voted on three years ago. As BW mentioned the poison pill was added which kept it from getting passed.

 

My hope is that the TG's will VOTE. YES!!!!!

 

I mean after all....

 

WHAT LOOKS MORE COWBOY THAN TWO REVOLVERS BELCHING SMOKE AND FIRE!!!!

 

IMO it does not get more cowboy than that.

 

I have shot BP against all the Gunfighters in the club's that I shoot at. Heck I even shot it at EOT against the smokeless guys.

 

The time has come to recognize it.

 

Get your TG to Vote for it.

Howdy Blackwater, good to hear from you Judge'm All, maybe I'm miss-remembering ....but I thought one of the reasons it missed last time was because they decided to split Seniors into 5yr increments instead 10, thus creating even more categories Good Luck

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Blackwater 53393]

 

 

Howdy Blackwater, good to hear from you Judge'm All, maybe I'm miss-remembering ....but I thought one of the reasons it missed last time was because they decided to split Seniors into 5yr increments instead 10, thus creating even more categories Good Luck

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

 

That too was part of it, but I read the proposal in the aftermath, and the elimination of Grande Dame just leaped off the screen at me! As much as I am FOR FCGF, I could not in all good conscience have voted to eliminate that category or others that support the two extremes of age based categories. Our kids and elders are way too important to me, even if there are only a few of them involved in our game.

 

I'm not a TG, but if I was I would have been furious at the trickery that was used to kill FCGF the last time!! I've been around politics for too long not to recognize that kind of gamesmanship!! They figured, "Let's make it so if you vote for it, you're voting against another group!" and that way it looks like "At least we tried!".

 

When that happens, I call BS!

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

 

I'm not a TG, but if I was I would have been furious at the trickery that was used to kill FCGF the last time!! I've been around politics for too long not to recognize that kind of gamesmanship!! They figured, "Let's make it so if you vote for it, you're voting against another group!" and that way it looks like "At least we tried!".

 

I don't think it was intentional. It was the end of a long set of discussions concerning multiple items and I think it was a misguided attempt to combine several category based issues into a single voting item. The TG's, almost 100% of whom vote exactly the way their clubs instruct them to vote regardless of their personal feelings, had no way to reconcile the change with the votes they had so it died. Hopefully this year will be different.

[Ramblin Gambler]

I don't really get the male and female categories. I know in most competitions men have a decided advantage over ladies, but is that true in shooting? I'm gunna guess not since women regularly beat me.

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

I strongly support a FCGF category.

 

However, please don't poison the well on this new category by trying to force gunfighter style into a very well designed Classic Cowboy category. CC is predominantly a shooting style category. It has been duelist since created. Leave it alone.

 

 

Good luck, GJ

I think FCGF will round out the GF category nicely.

 

But while we're all talkin to our TG's, why isn't CC a black powder category? Maybe we should add that to the ballot.

[John Henry Quick]

But while we're all talkin to our TG's, why isn't CC a black powder category? Maybe we should add that to the ballot.

 

I've wondered EXACTLY the same thing, but didn't want to get people's skivvies in a knot.

[Tyrel Cody]

I think FCGF will round out the GF category nicely.

 

But while we're all talkin to our TG's, why isn't CC a black powder category? Maybe we should add that to the ballot.

+1

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

I think FCGF will round out the GF category nicely.

 

But while we're all talkin to our TG's, why isn't CC a black powder category? Maybe we should add that to the ballot.

We'd be right back where we were with the Grand Dame conundrum. Let's count our blessings and hope for the best. Call your senators and representatives - git 'er dun!

 

CR

[Cat Brules]

So, if you were thinking about defining categories, what would your instincts be? FCGF has to be about as natural as breathing.

 

CR

I didn't reply in order to get into a long debate regarding this matter, I'm simply stating my opinion that I don't think SASS needs any other categories and that, members who decided to gear-up and to dress in a certain way, did so with the full knowledge of the rules regarding gear and dress.

 

I do not believe that SASS needs more categories and that is how I will ask my territorial governor to vote. Others in my clubs may have other feelings regarding this matter and may ask our territorial governor to vote otherwise. Our territorial governor will have to measure the input and decide how he will vote based on input from the club members. That's how it works, and so it goes.

[Tyrel Cody]

We'd be right back where we were with the Grand Dame conundrum. Let's count our blessings and hope for the best. Call your senators and representatives - git 'er dun!

 

CR

Methinks Tom just having a little fun with us

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

Methinks Tom just having a little fun with us

You're no fun...

 

I do think the BP thing has some merit though. You're already allowed to shoot .36 cal C&B in place of .40 cal pistols.

[Tyrel Cody]

I didn't reply in order to get into a long debate regarding this matter, I'm simply stating my opinion that I don't think SASS needs any other categories and that, members who decided to gear-up and to dress in a certain way, did so with the full knowledge of the rules regarding gear and dress.

I do not believe that SASS needs more categories and that is how I will ask my territorial governor to vote. Others in my clubs may have other feelings regarding this matter and may ask our territorial governor to vote otherwise. Our territorial governor will have to measure the input and decide how he will vote based on input from the club members. That's how it works, and so it goes.

And that is how it should work. Everyone should talk to their TG. I'd like to see less categories myself, but this is one that should be added in my opinion. I believe Gunfighter and FCGF will only grow. If it doesn't pass I'll not be angry, I'll still shoot Gunfighter with BP.

[C.C. Moonshine]

Question after reading all the replies ....

 

How can any of us (as cowboys) blatantly state that because this person or that person (whom has ZERO skin in the game, i.e. "the category of topic" ) and has no intention to ever participate in it, can condemn it ? We should be supporting the additions of all things that enhance the enjoyment in this sport for others. Realizing there are very few who would qualify for the category of "one eyed fat man with one leg born in December shooting left hand duelist style BP "

But BP Gunfighter is a no brainier based on shear numbers of those that shoot BP (any style) and smokeless GF that may want to change over and find new spark in the game with BPGF.

 

We, as SASS members need to start finding ways to enhance the game and increase the ranks, this includes new energy in those that have been here for a long time, but also to have great options and offerings to those new to the game.

 

As for awards, Clubs such as ours work hard and spend a great deal of the clubs funds on awards and you know what,,, I'm GREAT with that !

It is none of your business if someone feels proud if they got first and were only competing against one other shooter or for that matter by them selves.

Each person plays this game, spends their money, uses their vacation time for their own level of enjoyment, their way. LET THEM PLAY....

Tend to your own horse in the race you want to be in and wish good luck and fun for the others.

 

Long story short + 1 for BPGF

[Rye Miles #13621]

At the Michigan State shoot this year there was a whole passle of FCGF's!!! I shot FCD and came in first!!! Congrats to me!!!

 

(I beat the other guy)

 

Rye

[Tyrel Cody]

If my 10 year old son, a future FCGF'er, had his way the TGs would be voting to add Frontier Cartridge BUCKAROO!!!!!!

[Dewey Cheatem, SASS #75620]

You could eliminate a lot of categories if you broke it down 40 and under, 40 and over and 80 and over leaving buckaroo and junior alone. If you don't have more than 3 competitors drop the category and let shooter switch to a different one.

 

DC

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

At the Michigan State shoot this year there was a whole passle of FCGF's!!! I shot FCD and came in first!!! Congrats to me!!!

 

(I beat the other guy)

 

Rye

 

Yup - there were (7) FCGF shooters and if you include the (3) PRGF that makes (10) black powder gunfighter participants.

 

GG ~

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

If my 10 year old son, a future FCGF'er, had his way the TGs would be voting to add Frontier Cartridge BUCKAROO!!!!!!

 

 

Here, Here! BP .22LRs can be made from regular .22LR's, just ask John Boy! (Actually, while I know there are exceptions, most kids that age are not really ready to handle that, so probably no.)

 

In all seriousness, the proliferation of categories is primarlily associated with the age divisions of the two handed grip, shooting categories. Only recently have they added an age division to Duelist to create Senior Duelist and that is treated as an age based category which is also a topic up for vote at the TG meeting.

 

When I started back in 2002, there was Modern, Traditional, 49'r, Senior, Duelist, Gunfighter (Which I think was new), B-Western, Classic Cowboy, Frontiersman, Frontier Cartridge, Frontier Cartridge Duelist, and the equivalent Ladies categories, as well as the Junior categories. Since then we dropped Modern and Traditional and replaced them with the age based categories Cowboy and Wrangler and we added, Silver Senior, Elder Statesman, Cattle Baron, Senior Duelist, and those equivalent Ladies categories, all of which are age based. So, where is the proliferation of categories? It's all age based.

 

When was the last time we added a shooting style category? It was Gunfighter! It only seems logical to complete the shooting style category list and add FCGF.

[Tyrel Cody]

 

 

Here, Here! BP .22LRs can be made from regular .22LR's, just ask John Boy! (Actually, while I know there are exceptions, most kids that age are not really ready to handle that, so probably no.)

 

In all seriousness, the proliferation of categories is primarlily associated with the age divisions of the two handed grip, shooting categories. Only recently have they added an age division to Duelist to create Senior Duelist and that is treated as an age based category which is also a topic up for vote at the TG meeting.

 

When I started back in 2002, there was Modern, Traditional, 49'r, Senior, Duelist, Gunfighter (Which I think was new), B-Western, Classic Cowboy, Frontiersman, Frontier Cartridge, Frontier Cartridge Duelist, and the equivalent Ladies categories, as well as the Junior categories. Since then we dropped Modern and Traditional and replaced them with the age based categories Cowboy and Wrangler and we added, Silver Senior, Elder Statesman, Cattle Baron, Senior Duelist, and those equivalent Ladies categories, all of which are age based. So, where is the proliferation of categories? It's all age based.

 

When was the last time we added a shooting style category? It was Gunfighter! It only seems logical to complete the shooting style category list and add FCGF.

Back in June he begged me to let him try BP for a match. Now he won't shoot anything else. He shoots a pair of 357 NMV, 1894 Marlin, and a 12 ga Stoeger; granted he is a big 10 year old. To be honest his BP load recoil less than smokeless and all are well above the smoke requirement for a BP shooter. WE have a lot of FUN making smoke together.

 

Only kidding about FCB as a new category.

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

OK, so I I stand corrected by myself. I just went back and looked at my PDF copy of the 2002 Handbook, all 15 pages of it . The categories did include Elderstatesman but did not include Frontier Cartridge Duelist so that was added at some point. There was no FCD and there were no Costume Based Categories, No B-Western and No Classic Cowboy. That surprised me! From my archives, it appears that B-Western was approved at the 2006 TG Meeting.

 

 

The category list in the 2002 Shooters Handbook was as follows (Plus the Ladies Categories)

 

Juniors (No Buckaroos)

Modern

Traditional

49'r

Senior

Elderstatesman

 

Duelist

Gunfighter

Frontier Cartridge

Frontiersman

 

If I had all the notes, which I might, it would be interesting to create a timeline of exactly when all of the categories became approved. (You can get the man out of engineering, but you can't get engineering out of the man! )

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

Back in June he begged me to let him try BP for a match. Now he won't shoot anything else. He shoots a pair of 357 NMV, 1894 Marlin, and a 12 ga Stoeger; granted he is a big 10 year old. To be honest his BP load recoil less than smokeless and all are well above the smoke requirement for a BP shooter. WE have a lot of FUN making smoke together.

 

Only kidding about FCB as a new category.

 

My grand daughter, who is 4, cant wait. She was with us at the awards ceremony for the last NE Regional and said she was ready to go. I told her that her Mom said she needed to wait until she was 9 (Worked down from 14!). She sat for a few minutes then told me that she thought 8 was good enough! I am looking forward to that day!