Boggus Deal #64218 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I am with Phantom on his first post. I write a lot of lines. I don't care if they are used and expect them to be massacred! I am even guilty of it. I do try to say the lines. Sometimes, a slightly sick mind lets my mouth get my butt in trouble.... Sometimes, I look around to make sure no children are present and ladies aren't within earshot..... BD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Sounds like some of the fun we have, though the term would have been 'gamer' We have a saying goes something like If you want to shoot with yer friends then you better bring some along. Catch the drift? We all have a lot of fun though and I wouldn't trade my name-callin' Pards for anybody. Waimea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Oh...gawd... I don't need to tell people that I understand their flawed logic...unless I'm just trying to make them "Feel" better about their stoopidity. Not all opinions are worth something...some ain't worth crap. Phantom So do you often explain to people how their logic is flawed and convince them to change their mind when you start off by calling them stupid? I find it much more effective to be able to walk thru the faulted logic and point out where the train went off the tracks than to just huff and puff and tell people how stupid they are. And I can't walk thru that logic if I don't first have a reasonable idea of what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Geeezz….can ya get into it a little??Next time you shoot try and remember the guy that took his time to write the stages, and who put a little story line or just a cool line to start us off. Some guys have fun with it but the ones that can't remember or could care less ….well………..what ya' all think??? What do I think? I think you should lighten up. I love reciting lines. I love changing them around to suit me. I might just say I'll feel better after I've robbed a few banks. But frankly, some of us have enough trouble just remembering the shooting order, much less the line. So if I need to be reminded of what the line is, it is not a sign of disrespect, it is just a sign of aging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 So do you often explain to people how their logic is flawed and convince them to change their mind when you start off by calling them stupid? I find it much more effective to be able to walk thru the faulted logic and point out where the train went off the tracks than to just huff and puff and tell people how stupid they are. And I can't walk thru that logic if I don't first have a reasonable idea of what it is. Where did I say that I would call them Stoopid? And no...I'm not on this world to try and enlighten people of their stoopid ways. Live and let live... But I'm also not a touchie feelie guy that has some internal urge to do what apparently you like to do. And brother, I'm in good shape...I don't huff and puff. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Where did I say that I would call them Stoopid? And no...I'm not on this world to try and enlighten people of their stoopid ways. Live and let live... But I'm also not a touchie feelie guy that has some internal urge to do what apparently you like to do. And brother, I'm in good shape...I don't huff and puff. Phantom Yes, you are in good shape. You clearly do not lean towards diplomacy, I do. Life would be boring if we were all the same. Some one once told me 'you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar' at the time I think my reply was something about where they could put something. But I have come to appreciate the truth in that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Yes, you are in good shape. You clearly do not lean towards diplomacy, I do. Life would be boring if we were all the same. Some one once told me 'you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar' at the time I think my reply was something about where they could put something. But I have come to appreciate the truth in that statement. Diplomacy...well there ya go...yer a diplomat Actually, I'm quite diplomatic. I just don't subscribe to your type of diplomacy. And..I'm not into catching flies... Anyone thinking of giving a SOG to someone that doesn't say a starting line correctly doesn't deserve my time or effort in being diplomatic. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 A grandmother in her 70s, is taking the game fairly seriously and has read the rule books and attended RO classes has the mis conception that a starting line is considered a non shooting activity under the failure to engage / SOG penalty specification and in her way of thinking not memorizing the line is a competitive advantage so she suggests to the TO that she thinks it should be an SOG. She doesn't deserve a little diplomacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Hi Folks, I would say that I forget the line (or starting position) more than half of the time. Sometimes, even when I remember, I like to change them to something similar that I think is funnier. Then Hubby says I have no sense of humor. So, I may be the only one laughing. I remember once around 2001, we encountered the berm marshals from He.., well you know. They gave Hubby a P for leaving one word out of the line among other things they did to other shooters that day. My posse gave the MD (club president) an earful and he spoke to them. I heard they never came back to that club and everyone lived happily ever after. Regards, Allie Mo PS Vinegar and honey, with tomato sauce, garlic, bell pepper, and onion are great on pork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 PPS Grizz and Phantom, be nice. PPPS Diplomacy is good (it isn't my strong suit). However, knowing all of the details of situation helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 A grandmother in her 70s, is taking the game fairly seriously and has read the rule books and attended RO classes has the mis conception that a starting line is considered a non shooting activity under the failure to engage / SOG penalty specification and in her way of thinking not memorizing the line is a competitive advantage so she suggests to the TO that she thinks it should be an SOG. She doesn't deserve a little diplomacy? Yes. By being taken to the side and told she is WRONG. Not for her to make others play by her rules just because she is old and don't know better. If she is not corrected there. it will happen again at the next one. But she should have been corrected right then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Yes. By being taken to the side and told she is WRONG. Not for her to make others play by her rules just because she is old and don't know better. If she is not corrected there. it will happen again at the next one. But she should have been corrected right then. Al, I certainly agree with that, but it should be done privately and with diplomacy, not a dressing down for the whole posse to watch and without a good explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I heard a captain say once... I don't have to be diplomatic when I am right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, May 9, 2014 - No reason given Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, May 9, 2014 - No reason given Al, I certainly agree with that, but it should be done privately and with diplomacy, not a dressing down for the whole posse to watch and without a good explanation. You may be diplomatic...buy your strawmaning all over the place. You do it on a rather regular basis the moment someone doesn't agree with you. Where did I say...or anyone say...that they should be "dressed down for the whole posse to watch"????? And I'll just leave it at that...Allie would not appreciate anything else added on this post for "Color". Phantom Link to comment
Grizzly Dave Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, May 9, 2014 - No reason given Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, May 9, 2014 - No reason given You may be diplomatic...buy your strawmaning all over the place. You do it on a rather regular basis the moment someone doesn't agree with you. Where did I say...or anyone say...that they should be "dressed down for the whole posse to watch"????? And I'll just leave it at that...Allie would not appreciate anything else added on this post for "Color". Phantom Do I need to go back and get the quotes from your earlier posts saying that anyone who would suggest that a SOG be awarded was a ()*$%()*#? And how any such person deserves no diplomacy because of their stupidity? Being a bit naive and inexperienced is not stupidity. All of this in front of not the whole posse, but the whole world wide web. And yes, I am trying to be diplomatic with you too, I'm trying to point out that the person suggesting the SOG could be doing so, while however wrong, with the best of intentions and with no ill will or self interests involved. As far as strawmanning, thanks for teaching me a new word by the way, neither of us is innocent of that. Not sure what you mean by on a regular basis outside this thread, but I'll keep it in mind for future posts and endevour to use the quote function more diligently. Just for the record, here is a recap of how I stand on the issue ignoring the big hairy debate that ensued. 1) Yes, it sometimes irks me when people are obnoxious about ignoring starting lines. But certainly not enough to say anything, and most certainly not enough to think that a SOG is appropriate. Some matches I've attended supply 'suggested' starting lines so as to make clear that the shooter is free to use the supplied line, creatively deliver it, or not use it at all. 2) No, I certainly don't think an SOG is appropriate for forgotten or creatively delivered starting lines, even if it were for deliberate, repeated, and obnoxious refusal to say starting lines. 3) Yes, I think the language of the failure to engage / SOG rule is vague enough that someone with a basic knowledge of the rule, but little experience in the game could question if starting lines are included in non-shooting activities. 4) Yes, I certainly think that anyone who suggests an improper penalty be awarded, or questions if one should be. should be educated on why it should not be, and also be shown from the rule book whenever possible the relative rules. We all don't have the benefit of having been in this game for decades or have the benefit of seeing every Wire WTC thread or rules clarification since the wire was on teletype. We need to encourage and educate the newer shooters in the sport when they seek to understand and apply the rules, not berate and intimidate them when they try to make or suggest a call to the best of their experience and knowledge. Enough of this, lets go shoot! Grizz Link to comment
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Back to the OP..........yes we always use start lines. I usually take them from a movie so there is a theme, or sometimes a book. I try to keep them short, and they are stapled right in front of the shooter. If the shooter forgets, any line they choose or "shooter ready" is fine. Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 I have no problem with someone forgetting the line, I've done it myself, it's the folks that have absolutely no clue because they don't give a hoot about the line or maybe the little story. Prairie Dawg wrote some stages for our Wed. shoot that were actual lines people said back in the day. They were preceded by a short little story. It was a cool kinda of a history lesson. My favorite line: SAY WHEN!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Sometimes I write lines that I EXPECT to get massacred, for instance, shooter starts holding plate and fork, when ready say, "Possum! I LOVE Possum!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, May 9, 2014 - Just an insult. Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, May 9, 2014 - Just an insult. "Yes, it sometimes irks me when people are obnoxious about ignoring starting lines." Funny how someone's own way of enjoying this game can soooo get under other people's skin... And Big Ol' Loveable Grizz...your post was terribly disingenuous. But I've been told by a very good pard of mine that I'm arguing with a fence post...so this reflects poorly on me...the Fence Post...well, it's just being a Fence Post...don't know any better. Cheers! Phantom Link to comment
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, May 9, 2014 - No reason given Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, May 9, 2014 - No reason given "Do I need to go back and get the quotes from your earlier posts saying that anyone who would suggest that a SOG be awarded was a ()*$%()*#?" Yes...by all means go back. And yes, anyone that would award a SOG for not saying the published starting line is a @#$(&@$!!!!! "And how any such person deserves no diplomacy because of their stupidity? Being a bit naive and inexperienced is not stupidity." Again, yes...you need to go back. This thing you have with Diplomacy is fascinating. "All of this in front of not the whole posse, but the whole world wide web." Yes..in front of the WHOLE world wide web...crazy ain't it. Tell me, just who was I directing my comments towards??? Give me a NAME...a specific person...since you seem to think that I was "Dressing Down" (to use your words), someone specific... Oy... Phantom Link to comment
Null N. Void Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I post the lines along with the starting position near the start point. Shooters are getting ready to send lead downrange and are concentrating on shooting the stage. I try to help them, not distract them. Distractions are a safety issue, in my opinion. We need to be careful about them right before and during the stage. I will start them when they indicate they are ready, regardless of how they do it. I'm there to safely assist them through the stage. I'm not a kill joy. I've had shooters either accidently or on purpose change a line that is so funny that everybody is laughing. I just back off until the laughter dies down and we're all focused, say "shooter is ready" and hit the beep. South Buffalo Slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, May 9, 2014 - No reason given Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, May 9, 2014 - No reason given Let's stay on topic, PLEASE! Link to comment
Anvil Al #59168 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I have no problem with someone forgetting the line, I've done it myself, it's the folks that have absolutely no clue because they don't give a hoot about the line or maybe the little story. Prairie Dawg wrote some stages for our Wed. shoot that were actual lines people said back in the day. They were preceded by a short little story. It was a cool kinda of a history lesson. My favorite line: SAY WHEN!! How short of a story?? Most around here don't put in stories anymore. One, maybe two lines. OK Make it longer than that. And I am tuning it out waiting for the shooting order. Have been on posses that voted to NOT read the story as they was just to dang long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Bob Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Great starting line heard from a young mom watching her 3 year old son getting to do something hazardous - "If you're going to do something real stupid - you'd better be real tough!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordyce Beals Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I print the hand position above the start line at the start position. Works for me. Fordyce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I print the hand position above the start line at the start position. Works for me. Fordyce You done good! As usual, it was a blast and is one of my favorite matches. I will be back and hope you never lose the State Match! Besides being a great match, your location draws folks from N and S. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 How short of a story?? Most around here don't put in stories anymore. One, maybe two lines. OK Make it longer than that. And I am tuning it out waiting for the shooting order. Have been on posses that voted to NOT read the story as they was just to dang long. VERY SHORT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I love stories and starting lines. I try to keep stories less than 2 paragraphs, and have a line that reinforces the story. It is what is "fun" to me. From tomorrow's match... Meanwhile, up in the engine cab, Elaine is showing a young passenger, Joey, around the cab. The Engineer, Clarence Oveur makes good friends with Joey when he asks “Have you ever been in a train?”, Joey replies that he hasn’t, then Oveur asks “Have you ever seen a grown man naked”? It is up to Elaine to save him from Engineer Oveur, and Conductor Roger Murdock (who looks surprisingly like Kareem Abdul-Jabaar).Procedure:Start standing behind barrel with weak hand loose at side and strong arm around RO’s shoulders. When ready say “Joey, Have you ever seen a grown man, naked?”. ATB, release the RO. draw your first pistol and engage the pistol targets in a regressive sweep from either direction (P4. P4. P4. P4, P3) . Holster and draw second pistol. Continue the sweep on the pistol targets (P3, P3, P2, P2, P1). Holster and move to rifle. Engage the rifle targets in a regressive sweep from either direction (R4. R4. R4. R4, R3, R3, R3, R2, R2, R1). Make rifle safe back on table and retrieve shotgun and engage the shotgun targets in any order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo slim Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Heck I can't remember the lines and I write the dang stages best line..."Indians" .....as loud as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Diplomacy. “Lady Nancy Astor: Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea. Winston Churchill: Nancy, if I were your husband, I'd drink it.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Diplomacy. “Lady Nancy Astor: Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea.Winston Churchill: Nancy, if I were your husband, I'd drink it.” I understand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Some of my favorites... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Starting with yer arm around the TO is probably one of the worst starting positions I've ever seen. What happened to keeping a little room between the RO/TO and the shooter? To me, yer starting off the stage with a huge potential for interference...or worse. We're not playing Tiddledywinks here. Sorry...just my opinion... Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mean gun mark Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Most of the lines in my stages are from Westerns. The shooter can say the line or "ready" or "Git R Done" or whatever. My favorite line story is from a shoot last year that had a Quigley Down Under theme. I believe it was Cowboy Rick who wrote the stage. You had your choice of these two starting lines:oment" (1) You know your weapons. It's a lever-action, breach-loader. Usual barrel length's thirty inches. This one has an extra four. It's converted to use a special forty-five caliber, hundred-and-ten-grain metal cartridge, with a five-hundred-forty-grain paper patch bullet. It's fitted with double-set triggers, and a Vernier sight, marked up to twelve-hundred yards. This one shoots a mite further. or (2) Ah-ha. The legendary Sharps. Buffalo Dick said the first line from memory!!!! Mighty impressive. Many of us who love cowboy movies know them by heart. That was an extra-special moment. We made Buffy repeat it at the awards ceremony to much cheering --Prairie (what's know for longish lines) Dawg.......Yeah but he forget that a 45 colt wont chamber in a 44-40....another classic "buffy moment" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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