BJT Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Pistol sequence is p1-p2-p1-p3-p1-p4-p1-p5-p1-p6. Targets are 7 yards out and spaced about 1.5 yards apart. p1 is directly in front of the shooter. Our gunfighter steps to the line and hits the targets with his 4 and5/8" revolvers in the given order using the left revolver on p1 and using the right revolver on the other p2-p6 targets. A spotter calls a P for shooting out of category. When queried he quotes the RO II "At no time is it acceptable for either revolver to be held in an unsafe position (e.g., one revolver behind the other)." The spotter points out that the geometry of the stage would require the second revolver to be behind the first if the first is pointed at p1 and the second at p6 with both arms extended. You are the RO, what is the call? Very Best Regards, BJT Quote
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 Unless one of his arms is 6" shorter than the other I see no problem. Quote
Choctaw Silver Wolf SASS 66636 Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 The "call " would be to ,have a talk with the spotter and if that dosent work ,the next "call" would be to replace the spotter Quote
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) my call is "NEW SPOTTER"... even if he used RT pistol on P1 and left on 2-6 Edited March 6, 2011 by Brother King, SASS #69031 Quote
Tn Tombstone Posted March 6, 2011 Posted March 6, 2011 What does Catagory have to do with the shooter having one long arm and one shorter arm Quote
Manatee Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) What does Catagory have to do with the shooter having one long arm and one shorter arm There has been a large increase in the number of gunfighters who have opted for elective orthopedic surgery to shorten one arm. Hence the term "short stroke"....which in this case, is an internal mod and therefore legal. Edited March 7, 2011 by Manatee Quote
Joe LaFives #5481 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) from page 14 of the SASS handbook Double Duelist Style may be used.... There is no set pattern as to how the revolvers are to be fired, but alternating revolvers is clearly the most efficient Why on earth did it even come up? Edited March 7, 2011 by Joe LaFives #5481 Quote
Tn Tombstone Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Manatee Thank you, I am still laughing as I type, but what about the bionics Widder had installed in those thumbs? No way he should be able to go that fast with mere human appendages Quote
Griff Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) OP is being argumentative... 3-day suspension from the Wire! BUT, since THAT ain't likely, or even desireable... how 'bout an example less cut 'n dried: Same target setup, but the shooter has left arm fully extended and right arm held so the muzzle of his right gun is behind his left wrist. Edited March 7, 2011 by Griff, SASS/CMSA #93 Quote
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Well if'n the shooter has real loooooooooog barrels.... GG ~ Quote
Four Bucks #36386 Life Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Sounds like one of those spotters that doesn't feel like he's doing his/her job unless they find SOMETHING wrong. Thanks for your help...now go tend the unloading table. Four Bucks Quote
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 There has been a large increase in the number of gunfighters who have opted for elective orthopedic surgery to shorten one arm. Hence the term "short stroke"....which in this case, is an internal mod and therefore legal. Okay, this caused some Sauvignon Blanc to exit the nasal passages... Quote
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 That spotter would have a heart attack if he ever saw T-Bone Dooley shoot Outlaw Gunfighter style B) B) Quote
Gawd Awful Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Okay, this caused some Sauvignon Blanc to exit the nasal passages... Really? I'm not sure what is worse, a cowboy with wine instead of wisky, or the waste of said wine being admitted to. Quote
Tn Tombstone Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 He$$,(is that how you spell it Phatom?)I had a heart attack when I had to shoot against T-Bone shooting Outlaw GF Quote
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) That's it I say OUTLAW the gunfighter category! It causes nothin but trouble!!!!!!!!!! Heh heh got ya goin didn't I ?? I would tell the spotter to go have a cup of coffee and come back when he knows the rules! Edited March 7, 2011 by Rye Miles #13621 Quote
Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 BJ, I'd say that the spotter should go back to his chicken farm and clean the product off his feet before returning to the match. We don't need that at matches. Quote
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) BJT: apparently, you've done your math homework. If those targets are placed as you have stated and assuming they are about 18" wide and the shooter is standing 7 yrds from P1, then it looks like the arch of the right arm is going to have to swing 45 degrees outward.....which in effect, does bring that pistol in the right hand behind the left hand under some (but not all) circumstances. In order for that right pistol to get behind the left hand, a couple things have to be common. 1. the shooter HAS to be standing perfectly parallel to the firing line for all 10 shots. 2. both arms are of equal length and held in the EXACT same position at ALL times. According to my math, the right hand pistol doesn't get behind the left hand until the 6th plate AND REMEMBER, the body still has to be perfectly parallel to the firing line. I don't know how any spotter or TO can calculate this event. 3. If the barrel of the right hand pistol is approx 6" long, than it appears that it was enough to be BEYOND the left hand. OOPS, one other VERY IMPORTANT item. The only person eligible to make such a call would have to actually observe it while standing to the side of the shooter and alittle BEYOND the firing line. Other than that, I don't think there is any way for someone to discern such an incident. Anyhow, I just threw all this in to help show that this guideline in the ROII book should not be viewed as some 'cast in stone' safety guideline to be used against Gunfighters. Just my .02 ..........Widder Edited March 7, 2011 by Widowmaker Hill SASS #59054 Quote
BJT Posted March 7, 2011 Author Posted March 7, 2011 Widder, The spotter talked with bad dentures and chain smoked. He was rolling two marbles together in one hand (perhaps trying to prove he had not lost his). He kept repeating "I proved with geometric logic that they stole the strawberries, er ah I mean the shooter violated the category". It was all pretty strange. Very Best Regards, BJT Quote
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Defense stance: Rule says one "revolver" behind the other. While the end of the right barrel might have been behind the end of the left barrel, the right revolver was not entirely behind the left revolver. Prosecutions stance: Anytime you pull two revolvers, one is behind the other...if only by a fraction of an inch. Hang 'em, the shooter and the spotter. Quote
Ugly, SASS #18106 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Defense stance: Rule says one "revolver" behind the other. While the end of the right barrel might have been behind the end of the left barrel, the right revolver was not entirely behind the left revolver. Prosecutions stance: Anytime you pull two revolvers, one is behind the other...if only by a fraction of an inch. Hang 'em, the shooter and the spotter. Buck, you spot for me; I'll spot for you; there will never be a problem. Quote
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 NO CALL on the shooter... A change of task fer da spotter .... And maybe an attitude ajustment ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, with an axe handel .... Ya just got's ta know he's axing fer it ........ Jabez Cowboy Quote
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 Did you make this up? Probably not. I've had low number experienced shooters as why I didn't have to alternate pistols If I decide to change leads on a double sweep. CR Quote
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted March 7, 2011 Posted March 7, 2011 it's all about COMMON SENSE, if someone is being obviously unsafe, take them aside and explain it to them. If they won't listen, then handle it. wether you call it a P a MS or whatever hanlde it. We once had a couple come to a shoot that had boasted they had shot for years on their farm, after listening to us explain all or their unsafe actions they never came back, we wern't disappointed at all. Cheyenne Quote
Bear Creek Reverend Posted March 8, 2011 Posted March 8, 2011 Wrong call, if he did in fact sweep himself, MDQ,,,,,,,,,,from the setup, I find it hard to believe he could do that, but a new GF,,,may have,,,just a thought,,,,Bear Creek Reverend Quote
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted March 8, 2011 Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) Wrong call, if he did in fact sweep himself, MDQ,,,,,,,,,,from the setup, I find it hard to believe he could do that, but a new GF,,,may have,,,just a thought,,,,Bear Creek Reverend Huh. Who said anything about the shooter sweeping himself? Besides show me in the rule book where the penalty for sweeping yourself is located. Stan Edited March 8, 2011 by Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Quote
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 8, 2011 Posted March 8, 2011 There is no rule about or against sweeping oneself. It has always been a no call. No call on the OP also. Quote
Bear Creek Reverend Posted March 8, 2011 Posted March 8, 2011 On my range if you point a loaded gun at yourself or anyone else,,,,,,your gone. Sweeping anyone with a loaded gun is MDQ, I consider the shooter to be a someone and included,,,,if it's always been a no call,, maybe that needs to change, it's poor safety in gun handling. If the shooter started with the left gun, I don't see why he would cross arm the pistols, if he started with the right gun, as possible a new gun fighter might do, yes, he could have been pointing a loaded gun at his own hands, and at the very least have the danger in doing that pointed out. Just my thoughts, Bear Creek Reverend Quote
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted March 8, 2011 Posted March 8, 2011 On my range if you point a loaded gun at yourself or anyone else,,,,,,your gone. Sweeping anyone with a loaded gun is MDQ, I consider the shooter to be a someone and included,,,,if it's always been a no call,, maybe that needs to change, it's poor safety in gun handling. If the shooter started with the left gun, I don't see why he would cross arm the pistols, if he started with the right gun, as possible a new gun fighter might do, yes, he could have been pointing a loaded gun at his own hands, and at the very least have the danger in doing that pointed out. Just my thoughts, Bear Creek Reverend I sweep my foot all the time... The SASS rules are fine IMNSHO. Hope you let folks know that you don't play by SASS rules before they pay their hard earned money. Quote
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted March 8, 2011 Posted March 8, 2011 I sweep my foot all the time... The SASS rules are fine IMNSHO. Hope you let folks know that you don't play by SASS rules before they pay their hard earned money. +1 Stan Quote
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