Question for Frontier Cartridge shooters

[DeaconKC]

Okay, mulling over trying out FC and if I do, I guess I would use the Magtech brass shotgun shells for the shotgun part. How do these hold up with black powder subs? How does APP work for these?

Part 2, would there be an advantage to using nickel cases with APP?

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

APP works extremely well and the magtech brass will hold up fine as long as they don't get stepped on.

No big advantage in using nickel, brass is fine. Just dump your brass, including the magtechs, in a jug filled with water after you shoot the stage.

[Double Tap Taylor]

Beartrap has it correct, if using APP, cleanup is easy, I use windex with vinegar right from store, then balistol. You can use plastic hulls too with plastic wads, I have had some magtechs stepped on even by me. 

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

I've been shooting app for years, as beartrap said just dump your brass in a jug of water, I squirt a little dish soap in it after shooting. By the time I get home all I need to do is rinse the brass, dry then tumble. 

Rafe

[Scarlett]

DO IT DO IT DO IT!! It’s the most fun and it takes me about 1/2 the time to clean all 4 guns as shooting smokeless. I shoot APP.  You can use hi-tek coated bullets or traditional lubed with APP. 

 

JOIN THE DARKSIDE!! We have COOKIES! 

 

Hugs!

Scarlett

[Chantry]

As long as you drop the Magtech hulls into soapy water or Ballistol and water right after you shoot them, case length is indefinite.  I have not had throw out a Magtech brass hull in at least 10 years of shooting real BP in them.  Elmer's wood glue does pretty good job of sealing the overshot card in and doesn't dry out nearly as quickly as Elmer's white glue.  There is no advantage to nickel cases that I have seen and they split far more often then brass cases.  I use .38 Special.

 

Keep in mind that if you use Magtech hulls you need to move up a gauge when using fiber wads and cards:  11 gauge  fiber wads and cards for 12 gauge, 9 gauge  fiber wads and cards for 10 gauge, unless you can find over sized plastic wads.  Plastic is quicker to load, but a bit more difficult to clean.  Fiber is a bit longer to load, but easier to clean.

 

Forget the cookies, Come to the Dark Side, we have BACON!

Edited February 13 by Chantry

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

You can load regular plastic hulls with app or black powder, I'd save the brass hulls for style points.  Cheaper and easier to use plastic hulls, load the same way as smokeless just have to adjust your load data to accommodate more powder just be careful to not blow a hole in your pattern by using way to much powder.

Rafe

[Burn Through]

What Rafe said

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Nah, Nope, NONE OF THE ABOVE (Except for the Lovely Scarlett Darlin).  I've been shooting Frontier Cartridge seems like FOREVER.  I have always been running APP.  For Pistol/Rifle Cartridges or Percussion, I run 3f APP.  3f meters well thru my DILLON powder measure with only an occasional bridge.  If running reduced charges, I use Cream-0-Wheat for filler.

 

Been running Magtech 12Ga Hulls FOREVER as well.  Never need to resize them although they are picky about primer seating.  I use an inexpensive Lee Classic for seating primers.  For the Shotgun I load 40Gr 2f APP, scooped (by weight) and (by Volume), A Ballistic Products "Spitfire" Wad for a One Ounce payload.  A BPI 1044 (10Ga) wad works well also but you need to cut the petals back some.  Oh, Only time you need to resize a Magtech hull is if some Ham Hock steps on one

 

Welcome to Frontier Cartridge > Resistance is Futile, You WILL be Assimilated  

 

Now for the "Nope, None" Rest of the Story (quote Harry).  Totally unnecessary to lug a jug of water around a match.   Just dump yer fired hulls and cartridges inna cartridge bag and haul 'em home.  When you get home, dump 'em all inna sink or bucket of water cut with a goodly amount of White Vinegar and let soak for 30 minutes.  Rinse and Dry then Reload.  Whoops, I do separate Shotgun from Pistol/Rifle inna Soak. 

Edited February 13 by Colorado Coffinmaker
jAdd really great Helpful Hints

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Part 2: Nickel cases.  I use nickel cases for my handgun loads when shooting APP or real black powder.  I use plain brass cartridges for smokeless loads.  This helps me keep my ammo sorted out.  However, I do not use nickel-plated ammo in my rifles as it splits much sooner than unplated brass.

 

Corrosion:  APP is gentle on steel but will leave a dark brown tarnish on unwashed plain brass.  Nickel-plating prevents this tarnish but will develop a light frosty surface if unwashed.

 

APP Loading Instructions

[Make do]

Have had good luck with Mac tech brass but last weekend 3 of them split length wise. Maybe because i shot them in a different shotgun. I also resize after each use with a CH sizer, I have found that after about 3 to 4 reloading they start to stick. 

[Reverend P. Babcock Chase]

Howdy Deacon (and Double Tap),

 

I don't shoot black or subs, but I'd add a caution about vinegar. For brass it may be fine. I've never tried it. However, I have used vinegar as a very effective blue remover. I guess if you are shooting stainless guns it would be no problem, but for blued guns, I'd use something other than a product with vinegar for gun cleanup. Maybe others have direct experience with the Windex deal on blued guns to chime in with.

 

That's all I understand about what I know about this,

 

Rev. Chase

[McCandless]

11 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

Part 2, would there be an advantage to using nickel cases with APP?

 

I will not use nickel cases in the rifle.  If the case splits, as they are prone to do, it can be very hard to extract.  All the while the timer is saying, "tick, tick, tick, tick..."

[DeaconKC]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

DO IT DO IT DO IT!! It’s the most fun and it takes me about 1/2 the time to clean all 4 guns as shooting smokeless. I shoot APP.  You can use hi-tek coated bullets or traditional lubed with APP. 

 

JOIN THE DARKSIDE!! We have COOKIES! 

 

Hugs!

Scarlett

It's good to see you back! Get completely well quick.

42 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

Part 2: Nickel cases.  I use nickel cases for my handgun loads when shooting APP or real black powder.  I use plain brass cartridges for smokeless loads.  This helps me keep my ammo sorted out.  However, I do not use nickel-plated ammo in my rifles as it splits much sooner than unplated brass.

 

Corrosion:  APP is gentle on steel but will leave a dark brown tarnish on unwashed plain brass.  Nickel-plating prevents this tarnish but will develop a light frosty surface if unwashed.

 

APP Loading Instructions

I was planning on using the nickel for the same reason you said, keeping the smokeless and APP separate. Hadn't considered splits in a rifle chamber.

[Lead Monger]

I like to use double A plastic hulls with 50g of GOEX 2F and 1oz of shot. Easy to load. They fall out of the gun and it doesn’t make me cry when they get stepped on. A regular star crimp works just fine but you can trim and roll crimp the shells if you like.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Deacon,

 

You only use Vinegar for your "Bath" for the cases and rinse well then dry.  Shooting APP and Black Powder, the ONLY CLEANER I use is "PAM."  PAM is equal parts Hydrogen Peroxide, Denatured Alcohol and Murphy Oil Soap.  Hydrogen Peroxide neutralizes the bad stuff in Subs and BP.  Murphy Oil Soap is a cleaner and lubricant.  Denatured Alcohol is a drying agent.

 

I use it to clean the guns and a keep a small spray bottle in my gun cart to swab out the shotgun chambers between stages as well as wiping down the cylinder face if needed and a little spritz on the cylinder base pin.  Same same treatment for Percussion gunz.

[DeaconKC]

Have any of you had success with the Dillon or Lee powder dispensers with either APP or Triple 7? I remembered we have some Triple 7 at the LGS I work at at prepanic prices. We also have Pyrodex but even I am not that masochistic...

[Mister Badly]

I use the Lee auto drum powder measure for app in my Lee 4 hole press. Works fine

[Sedalia Dave]

Just now, DeaconKC said:

Have any of you had success with the Dillon or Lee powder dispensers with either APP or Triple 7? I remembered we have some Triple 7 at the LGS I work at at prepanic prices. We also have Pyrodex but even I am not that masochistic...

 

Triple 7 meters great from any powder measure. However, you may find it a little hot for pistol loads. You can minimize this by seating the bullets deeper into the case. Load just enough Triple 7 so that when the bullet is seated it is barely touching the powder. You don't want any compression. 

 

3F APP runs just fine through my Dillon powder measure. Avoid 2F APP, it is way to coarse to meter properly. I load 3F APP the same as T7. Use just enough powder so that the bullet barely touches the powder. You don't want any compression.

 

Don't waste your time using filler in 38 specials. Light 38 special loads will not seal the case to the chamber and allow excessive blowby. This will just gunk up the chamber and action.

 

Rather than using nickle brass, I use different colors of powder coated bullets to let me visually verify the load.

[DeaconKC]

I won't be using it with .38s, my 45s will serve me well. And those that shoot with me know there aren't mouse-fart loads even with smokeless. I would definitely go whole [wart]hog if I do this.

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

BP subs works fine.  No need for nickel cases as they may crack sooner than later.  SG brass cases would work too.  Personally, I'll just use regular SG hulls as brass cases when step on will flatten.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I use nickle cases, but for BP pistol only.   I also mark the bottoms of the rims with sharpies.  Black line means BP with lubed bullets.  Blue line means BP with unlubed bullets (which are pistol only and I lube over the loaded rounds like cap'n'ball).  Red line means APP.  Green line means 777, though I haven't done many of those.  No line means smokeless.  In general I use coated bullets for smokeless and APP, all lead for BP.  But I mark the bottoms anyway.  

 

For shotshells, green STS or gold Nitro hulls (or all brass) for BP, and red AA's for smokeless (with worn ones going into boxes marked "97 only"). 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Hodgdon's Triple Seven loading instructions here.  A 45 Colt loaded with Triple Seven and no filler will easily meet anyone's Warthog requirements.  They would be legal for Champeen of the Hillbilly Nation category. (See this.)

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

DeaconKC

 

Yep.  I load Pistol and Rifle cartridges exclusively on my DILLON.  3f will meter well thru the powder measure with just an occasional bridge.  However, use the LARGE POWDER BAR.  DO NOT try to run 2F thru the powder measure.  2F thru the powder measure SUX.

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

9 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Nah, Nope, NONE OF THE ABOVE (Except for the Lovely Scarlett Darlin).  I've been shooting Frontier Cartridge seems like FOREVER.  I have always been running APP.  For Pistol/Rifle Cartridges or Percussion, I run 3f APP.  3f meters well thru my DILLON powder measure with only an occasional bridge.  If running reduced charges, I use Cream-0-Wheat for filler.

 

Been running Magtech 12Ga Hulls FOREVER as well.  Never need to resize them although they are picky about primer seating.  I use an inexpensive Lee Classic for seating primers.  For the Shotgun I load 40Gr 2f APP, scooped (by weight) and (by Volume), A Ballistic Products "Spitfire" Wad for a One Ounce payload.  A BPI 1044 (10Ga) wad works well also but you need to cut the petals back some.  Oh, Only time you need to resize a Magtech hull is if some Ham Hock steps on one

 

Welcome to Frontier Cartridge > Resistance is Futile, You WILL be Assimilated  

 

Now for the "Nope, None" Rest of the Story (quote Harry).  Totally unnecessary to lug a jug of water around a match.   Just dump yer fired hulls and cartridges inna cartridge bag and haul 'em home.  When you get home, dump 'em all inna sink or bucket of water cut with a goodly amount of White Vinegar and let soak for 30 minutes.  Rinse and Dry then Reload.  Whoops, I do separate Shotgun from Pistol/Rifle inna Soak. 

I don't lug a jug of water around the match, I bag my brass until I get to the truck then dump the brass in the jug and let it roll around the back of the truck. Just like a washing machine the brass is clean and ready to dry and takes less tumbling to get shiny. 

Rafe 

[Scarlett]

8 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

12 hours ago, Scarlett said:

It's good to see you back! Get completely well quick

Thanks so much! I’m feeling a whole

lot better! 
 

Hugs!

Scarlett

[Tennessee williams]

23 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

Okay, mulling over trying out FC and if I do, I guess I would use the Magtech brass shotgun shells for the shotgun part. How do these hold up with black powder subs? How does APP work for these?

Part 2, would there be an advantage to using nickel cases with APP?

Can you use them with smokeless? I'm assuming you can. Seems like they'd shuck better than the plastic hulls. Do they?

[Mister Badly]

9 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Thanks so much! I’m feeling a whole

lot better! 
 

Hugs!

Scarlett

Glad to hear that.

[Eyesa Horg]

10 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Thanks so much! I’m feeling a whole

lot better! 
 

Hugs!

Scarlett

That's great news, hope you have guns in your hands soon!

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I carry a 1/2 Gallon Jug of water with a little vinegar in it and a spot of Dawn dish soap. 

And dump all my brass from the whole day in the jug .

Shake it threw out the day.

When I get home I dump the brass out and rinse with fresh water .

Let dry a day and throw them back in the tumbler .

Start over !

So Saith The Rooster 

[Chantry]

17 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

Have any of you had success with the Dillon or Lee powder dispensers with either APP or Triple 7? I remembered we have some Triple 7 at the LGS I work at at prepanic prices. We also have Pyrodex but even I am not that masochistic...

 I use 2F Triple 7 in my Dillon 650.  Depending on the caliber and charge you MAY have to put in the large pistol charge bar to avoid bridging and to get a consistent powder drop

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

On 2/13/2024 at 2:23 PM, DeaconKC said:

Have any of you had success with the Dillon or Lee powder dispensers with either APP or Triple 7? I remembered we have some Triple 7 at the LGS I work at at prepanic prices. We also have Pyrodex but even I am not that masochistic...

Can’t speak for your measures, but they run fine though my Hornady. APP is prone to clumping, so be sure you break those up before pouring. That’s my experience with the older formulation, perhaps the newer stuff has eliminated that problem. 
 

Much is said about 777 being so much hotter than real BP. I don’t notice it for CAS loadings, especially in C45S pistols, 44-40 rifle. YMMV. 

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

3 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Can’t speak for your measures, but they run fine though my Hornady. APP is prone to clumping, so be sure you break those up before pouring. That’s my experience with the older formulation, perhaps the newer stuff has eliminated that problem. 
 

Much is said about 777 being so much hotter than real BP. I don’t notice it for CAS loadings, especially in C45S pistols, 44-40 rifle. YMMV. 

 

 

Forgot about the clumping of APP. I have a screen in the bottom of the funnel I use when filling the powder hopper. It is coarse enough to let the powder through but catches the clumps and desiccate packs. 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Old bottles of Triple Seven may have large clumps.  However, they break down into granules very easily.

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

Sent you PM.

I like nickel to separate from rifle and Sassy know not to shot the nickels.  Also different color bullets for BP versus smokeless.  Don't want to get one of Sassy's bad looks when she gets all that smoke.  Gold and Green for my BP sub and black and red for smokeless