Cholla Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) I spoke with a Hodgdon rep at the Shot Show today about Trail Boss. He felt it would start shipping again this spring. I expect it will take a long period before the market is saturated and it’s common on the shelf. he said the reason it’s not currently being made is the contractor that makes it also makes Retumbo and other powders that are a higher profit product. The rep said Trail Boss was a low-profit product because of the extra steps required to make it. He said the contractor was going to make high-profit powders first, then go to the low-profit powders. I suspect the world shutting down for COVID is a hard hurtle to get over when no money is being made. So, making higher profit powder to recover makes sense. I am seeing Retumbo and other popular target shooter and hunting powders back on the shelf more and more so that falls in line with what he told me. I expect every bit of Trail Boss to be gobbled up as fast as it hits the shelf until every subsonic shooter feels secure in their stash. On the bright side, I bought a brick of Federal LPP at CAL Ranch last week for $59.99. They had more but I left them for the next guy. Edited January 24 by Cholla 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equanimous Phil Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Thanks for the info. But honestly, that souns sounds like just their official marketing blabla story. Arguing with economic points while the market is willing to pay unreasonable prices for this powder doesn't make sense to me. During a time period when primer manufacturers more than doubled their prize tags, what had they could have charged for a unique special application powder that no other competitors has in their portfolio? IMHO, they just weren't technically able to produce it (keyword: REACH compliance). Maybe I'm wrong, but don't ever trust a marketing guy without double-checking. But for whatever reason it disappeared from the shelves, I hope for everyone who waits for TB that it will be back on soon!! Equanimous Phil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 The answer to everything use to be "in two weeks", now it is "this spring"!!! 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I'd be willing to accept them adding $5 per bottle to give them a better profit margin to get some Trailboss again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Although I like TB, and have enough for maybe two more shooting years, I've already started switching over to Unique on some of my cowboy loads. When I start seeing TB back on the shelves then I'll believe it's being produced again. Until then what they are saying is just smoke blowing to me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I haven't seen any shortage of powder over the last couple of years. Not at All. Of course, I shoot APP and have never run short. Try It - Yule like it!! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 11 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said: Thanks for the info. But honestly, that souns sounds like just their official marketing blabla story. Arguing with economic points while the market is willing to pay unreasonable prices for this powder doesn't make sense to me. During a time period when primer manufacturers more than doubled their prize tags, what had they could have charged for a unique special application powder that no other competitors has in their portfolio? IMHO, they just weren't technically able to produce it (keyword: REACH compliance). Maybe I'm wrong, but don't ever trust a marketing guy without double-checking. But for whatever reason it disappeared from the shelves, I hope for everyone who waits for TB that it will be back on soon!! Equanimous Phil The rep told me that Trail Boss was not impacted by REACH. He said some powders were but a replacement for the impacted compound has been developed. He also said they are focused on the hungry US markets now but when demand slows they will start shipping to the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 11 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said: Arguing with economic points while the market is willing to pay unreasonable prices for this powder doesn't make sense to me. The retail market may be willing to pay unreasonable prices, but Hodgdon isn't selling to the retail market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex M Rugers #6621 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I have had a couple of lbs of Trail Boss taking up space in my powder cabinet for several years. Wish I knew some sub-sonic shooters in my area. Rex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 4 minutes ago, Rex M Rugers #6621 said: I have had a couple of lbs of Trail Boss taking up space in my powder cabinet for several years. Wish I knew some sub-sonic shooters in my area. Rex I'll take it off your hands if you don't want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex M Rugers #6621 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Well , come on over and we can haggle. Call me when you are about an hour away. Rex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Stone, SASS #53366 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 9 hours ago, Savvy Jack said: The answer to everything use to be "in two weeks", now it is "this spring"!!! They just don't tell you which "this spring" they are referring to. I've been waiting 3 springs for a set of Dillion 44 mag. carbide dies. Marshal Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Well, I am gonna be in Ft Wayne Indiana in a couple of months. That's about half way between Boston and Utah. Can I meet you there? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Marshal Stone, SASS #53366 said: They just don't tell you which "this spring" they are referring to. I've been waiting 3 springs for a set of Dillion 44 mag. carbide dies. Marshal Stone I waited 15 "seasons" for 44-40 Winchester brass and JSP bullets, finally gave up years ago. To this day I have NEVER seen any factory 44-40 Winchester or Remington ammunition or components in any store I have ever been in.....LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I have about 1 1/2 bottles of TB. I only use it in a couple of loads, and they are low volume loads, but I was still trying to "save" it, since I didn't think it would be coming back. Knowing that it will, I will go ahead and use what I have and it will still probably last me a few years. I wonder if the people who paid a king's ransom for TB from the scalpers will be regretting it? Savvy Jack, I found Winchester 44-40 brass at a Cabelas, I think it was. BUT, that was probably 15 years ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 TB was developed primarily for CAS. It came out around 2005 when we had 60-70k shooters. The demand has diminished along with our membership. Probably, less than 5-6% of CAS shooters were using TB. Maybe a thousand shooters buying a couple pounds annually isn't exactly profitable. I don't know of any others that use TB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 21 hours ago, Cholla said: I spoke with a Hodgdon rep at the Shot Show today about Trail Boss. He felt it would start shipping again this spring. I expect it will take a long period before the market is saturated and it’s common on the shelf. he said the reason it’s not currently being made is the contractor that makes it also makes Retumbo and other powders that are a higher profit product. The rep said Trail Boss was a low-profit product because of the extra steps required to make it. He said the contractor was going to make high-profit powders first, then go to the low-profit powders. I suspect the world shutting down for COVID is a hard hurtle to get over when no money is being made. So, making higher profit powder to recover makes sense. I am seeing Retumbo and other popular target shooter and hunting powders back on the shelf more and more so that falls in line with what he told me. I expect every bit of Trail Boss to be gobbled up as fast as it hits the shelf until every subsonic shooter feels secure in their stash. On the bright side, I bought a brick of Federal LPP at CAL Ranch last week for $59.99. They had more but I left them for the next guy. Cholla is this Australian made Trail Boss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 "....I suspect the world shutting down for COVID is a hard hurtle to get over when no money is being made. ...." i see that motivation , i dont blame them if that was a truthful explanation , id like to know why trailboss has more steps and is more costly than any other powder , im not a chemist so i wont even pretend to understand these processes but i would like someone to explain them , i think one of the big questions of our time is what will be done with those that caused the covid issue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Spade Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 It isn't SASS shooters that are using large amounts of Trail Boss now it is the guys shooting suppressed 30 cal that are paying a couple hundred dollars a bottle for it. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, Buckshot Bear said: Cholla is this Australian made Trail Boss? Yes. He said it was made in Australia as are a few other popular powders. He mentioned Retumbo and a few others that I forgot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 minutes ago, Cholla said: Yes. He said it was made in Australia as are a few other popular powders. He mentioned Retumbo and a few others that I forgot. Well that's bloody good news, I hope this isn't scuttlebutt!!!! Here's a list of Aussie made powders that are marketed in the U.S under the right hand column - Trailboss - Trailboss AS30N - Clays AS50N - International AP70N - Universal AP100 - IMR SR4756? AR2205 - H4227 AR2207 - IMR4198 AR2219 - H322 Benchmark 2 - Benchmark BM8208 - IMR8208XBR AR2206H - H4895 AR2208 - Varget AR2209 - H4350 AR2213SC - H4831 AR2217 - H1000 AR2225 - Retumbo AR2218 - H50BMG AR2210 - H322 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, watab kid said: id like to know why trailboss has more steps and is more costly than any other powder , im not a chemist so i wont even pretend to understand these processes but i would like someone to explain them , I listen to Hornady podcasts (a lot) and the way they explain the process of making powders, sounds very involved. Some powders are hollow inside to provide better ignition. Some powders have a flame-retardant coating to slow the ignition. Some powders need to be flattened to expose more surface for ignition. While he didn't explain the extra steps, he did say there was a great deal of more labor involved. His example was it would take selling five containers of Trail Boss to make the same profit as one container of Retumbo. If I were a business owner, making Trail Boss would be the last on my list, especially when the market is gobbling up powder as fast as it is made. I bought two pounds of Reloder 26 at $52 per pound because I need it for a new rifle I am getting, and I have been waiting years to see it. I bought a pound of Retumbo at almost the same price for the same reason. I wanted some CFE-223 and my LGS had it at $39.99 so I bought two because no one else had it in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 6 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said: Well that's bloody good news, I hope this isn't scuttlebutt!!!! Here's a list of Aussie made powders that are marketed in the U.S under the right hand column - Trailboss - Trailboss AS30N - Clays AS50N - International AP70N - Universal AP100 - IMR SR4756? AR2205 - H4227 AR2207 - IMR4198 AR2219 - H322 Benchmark 2 - Benchmark BM8208 - IMR8208XBR AR2206H - H4895 AR2208 - Varget AR2209 - H4350 AR2213SC - H4831 AR2217 - H1000 AR2225 - Retumbo AR2218 - H50BMG AR2210 - H322 He wore a suit and looked like he was important, so I hope he is correct. They have security at the Shot Show, so I assume he wasn't a well-dressed homeless bum looking for free food! Jack-Link was one of the booths with free jerky, so you never know! He did mention Varget as well, so fingers crossed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Oak Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 On 1/23/2024 at 9:13 PM, Cholla said: I spoke with a Hodgdon rep at the Shot Show today about Trail Boss. He felt it would start shipping again this spring. I expect it will take a long period before the market is saturated and it’s common on the shelf. he said the reason it’s not currently being made is the contractor that makes it also makes Retumbo and other powders that are a higher profit product. The rep said Trail Boss was a low-profit product because of the extra steps required to make it. He said the contractor was going to make high-profit powders first, then go to the low-profit powders. I suspect the world shutting down for COVID is a hard hurtle to get over when no money is being made. So, making higher profit powder to recover makes sense. I am seeing Retumbo and other popular target shooter and hunting powders back on the shelf more and more so that falls in line with what he told me. I expect every bit of Trail Boss to be gobbled up as fast as it hits the shelf until every subsonic shooter feels secure in their stash. On the bright side, I bought a brick of Federal LPP at CAL Ranch last week for $59.99. They had more but I left them for the next guy. Was anything said about Clays or Universal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Red Oak said: Was anything said about Clays or Universal? Not that I remember. He mentioned a few by name and I was waiting to hear those I have been waiting for. I have Clays so it didn't click in my brain if he said it. Edited January 25 by Cholla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 14 minutes ago, Red Oak said: Was anything said about Clays or Universal? ADI (Australian Defence Industries) have dropped (AS30N) - Clays and (AP70N) - Universal and have replaced them with the below......but unfortunately since they have they have been virtually none existent to purchase - https://www.ssaa.org.au/?ss_news=new-pistol-and-shotgun-powders-from-adi 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 2 hours ago, Cholla said: I listen to Hornady podcasts (a lot) and the way they explain the process of making powders, sounds very involved. Some powders are hollow inside to provide better ignition. Some powders have a flame-retardant coating to slow the ignition. Some powders need to be flattened to expose more surface for ignition. While he didn't explain the extra steps, he did say there was a great deal of more labor involved. His example was it would take selling five containers of Trail Boss to make the same profit as one container of Retumbo. If I were a business owner, making Trail Boss would be the last on my list, especially when the market is gobbling up powder as fast as it is made. I bought two pounds of Reloder 26 at $52 per pound because I need it for a new rifle I am getting, and I have been waiting years to see it. I bought a pound of Retumbo at almost the same price for the same reason. I wanted some CFE-223 and my LGS had it at $39.99 so I bought two because no one else had it in my area. thank you , that at least provides a little insight to what i didnt know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 14 hours ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said: Although I like TB, and have enough for maybe two more shooting years, I've already started switching over to Unique on some of my cowboy loads. When I start seeing TB back on the shelves then I'll believe it's being produced again. Until then what they are saying is just smoke blowing to me. I think Unique's gotten about as scarce as Trail Boss.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancho Roy Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Quote I think Unique's gotten about as scarce as Trail Boss.... It just recently showed back up on shelves here in New England. A fantastic all around powder that can be used in just about everything from 38sp to 38-40 to 44-40 to 45ACP to 38-55 to 45-70.....a great Cowboy powder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 4 minutes ago, Rancho Roy said: It just recently showed back up on shelves here in New England. A fantastic all around powder that can be used in just about everything from 38sp to 38-40 to 44-40 to 45ACP to 38-55 to 45-70.....a great Cowboy powder Which one and where? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Art Tillery Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 14 hours ago, Savvy Jack said: I waited 15 "seasons" for 44-40 Winchester brass and JSP bullets, finally gave up years ago. To this day I have NEVER seen any factory 44-40 Winchester or Remington ammunition or components in any store I have ever been in.....LOL I just recently had a local gun shop get in some factory Winchester 44-40. First he was able to get in years! But he said to hold onto my hat $125. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancho Roy Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) Quote Which one and where? Heritage Arms in RI hasd a shelf full two weeks ago. They said they will be getting it regularly now. Last week I was at Cabelas in Hamburg PA and I couldn't believe the reloading supplies! Federal small and large pistol primers stacked up on the shelf for grabbing! Huge powder inventory. Edited January 25 by Rancho Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 11 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said: Well that's bloody good news, I hope this isn't scuttlebutt!!!! Here's a list of Aussie made powders that are marketed in the U.S under the right hand column - Trailboss - Trailboss AS30N - Clays AS50N - International AP70N - Universal AP100 - IMR SR4756? AR2205 - H4227 AR2207 - IMR4198 AR2219 - H322 Benchmark 2 - Benchmark BM8208 - IMR8208XBR AR2206H - H4895 AR2208 - Varget AR2209 - H4350 AR2213SC - H4831 AR2217 - H1000 AR2225 - Retumbo AR2218 - H50BMG AR2210 - H322 Two different powders make H322? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 7 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: I think Unique's gotten about as scarce as Trail Boss.... I just bought 2 pounds of Unique a couple months ago from Nachez, along with some WSF, on a promotion of purchase of $100 and no hazmat fee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 7 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: I think Unique's gotten about as scarce as Trail Boss.... This is what I'm seeing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.