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Savvy Jack

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Savvy Jack last won the day on September 2 2018

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About Savvy Jack

  • Birthday 11/10/1966

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    https://www.44-40wcf.com

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  1. That is because all of those that used it to provide food for themselves and their families are long past...and those living today have been brainwashed that this is a pistol caliber rather than a rifle caliber for "mid-range" hunting and self protection against adversaries. Do yourself a favor and purchase a copy of Winchester's 1875 catalog, read all of the Testimonials from sporting shooters and avid hunters. I have noted several times in documentation that it was referred too as a Mid-Range Rifle Caliber. It was also well known for taking antelope at 700 paces. It is not wise to compare the 44-40 and a 44 Magnum. The 44-40 is far superior at longer ranges when loaded correctly. "Speculating" it will not is just as bad as "speculating it will". Stop speculating and get "experience"!
  2. My 44-40 cartridges "Identify As" a "Mid-Range Rifle Cartridge" rather than a limp wristed pistol cartridge!!!!!!! Eventually I will visit the West again.....hope it's soon
  3. Too bad the 44-40 is not allowed in at least mid range long distance side matches. Maybe it is to keep an overflux of lever actions out of the race. Accuracy at 265 Yards 12-7-2019 Another wonderful morning at the range. It was 32 degrees when I arrived, clear and no wind. I set up four targets. 7, 25, 200 and 265 yards. I also used the same load for both rifle and revolver. 25.8gr of Reloder 7 and 220gr 43-214A bullets. Starline brass with CCI-300 primers. Rifle is an Uberti Winchester 73' with a Malcom 6x scope. This scope makes a 100 yard target look like a 25 yard target. 1,350fps Rifle, 760fps revolver Revolver is an Uberti "Buckhorn" 44 Magnum with a 44-40 cylinder with a 7" barrel. The Malcom scope is set to 100 yards so I had to adjust and aim high at both 200 and 265 yards. 200 yard adjustment was approximately 24" and 50" at 265 yards. If the scope had been zeroed in at both 200 and 265, the groups would be much better. The idea was to proove the cartridge, not the shooter's skills. After a few shots for "range" at both targets, groups on both targets were kill shots. My skills are 100% lacking due to lack of practice but the cartridge is capable. Funny that a cartridge used in Little Bighorn battle at 300 yard ranges are not allowed in CAS Long Range matches......just saying. 200 yards, after a few "range" shots, it pinned it down pretty good with POA at the top of the target stand....approx 24" high. Ipad linked to camera on spotting scope, 200 yard target POA at 200 yards but needs to be moved right "on target" 265 yards. After several "range" shots off target to the left, one shot high....the target was finally hit!!! VIDEO: Working on "elevation" before moving right. Crosshairs were in the trees approx. 50" high.
  4. This is not my photo but it shows pretty good detail of the 43-219M
  5. I discovered that this bullet was pacifically designed after the 43-215C but for use with the LFCD. The 43-215C was designed after the Lyman 427098 but with a large lube groove for black powder lube as well as a roll crimp groove. 43-219M http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-219M-D.png
  6. A tad off topic since the following bullet has a crimp grove. The one and only issue with the Redding profile die is the use of the common 200gr "Laser Cast" bullets by Oregon Trail. Technically they are cast from a Magma Manufacturing commercial mold. "44-40" 44-40-200 RNF BB "Cowboy" (Bevel Base), cast .429-.430 and sized to .427 44-40-200 RNF FB "Cowboy" (Flat Base), cast .429-.430 and sized to .427 "44 Cal." 44-200 44-200 RNFP BB (Bevel Base), cast .432-.433 and sized to .430 These bullets can be sized up to .431 and should not be used with the 44-40 Redding profile die. The bullet has a roll crimp grove and a roll crimp works fine. If one tries to use a 44-40 Profile die, this could be the results....... The Redding is designed for .427" diameter bullets with a curved O'give from the case mouth to the meplat and if used with the larger diameter bullets, it will damage bullet right at the exposed forward driving band. If continued force is applied, it could get ugly. Any bullet with this exposed flat driving band is not a true 44-40 profile bullet. However, if the bullet is a .427" diameter or small bullet, it could work but go slow and see what happens. I prefer using a roll crimp with bullets that have a roll crimp grove but thought I would add this in here just in case.
  7. Exactly but some newer handloaders may not know the details. One just can't adjust a resize/expand without know what the die's/plug's measurements are. All I can do is gave an example; There are so many variables when loading for the 44-40, one sentence explanations are just not good enough sometimes. New Starline Brass/Winchester .4255 JSP bullets (anything larger will be more snug)....but then caution to not under expand and crumple cases when trying to force a large diameter bullet into a too small of an expanded/bellowed case mouth. Step 1. Resize Dies Lee-44-40-B7 resizes a new Starline case neck O.D. to .4335". The smallest I know readily available. RCBS "Cowboy" Die resizes a new Starline case neck O.D. to .4355 for a difference in a .0020" difference larger allowing for bullet slippage. The Lee is not much smaller but it helps in addition to other steps that add up to good neck retention. Step 2. Expanding Dies Using the smallest expander plug I had, the Lyman "M" die #7342102, the plug measured .4255 with the bellow step out to .4275. This gives nice snug neck retention. When the bullet is seated in the .4255 O.D. expanded neck, the neck bulges out to an O.D. of .4395" giving .014" for neck retention....not much. Other dies leave .0000" like the RCBS Cowboy Die for this application. Step 3. Crimp Die Handloaders choice on what works for them, but is the reason for the OP's post....suggestions. The third and final aid is a tight crimp to match the type crimp grove on the bullet. The OP is using a lead bullet with no crimp groves, this crimping on the forward most part of the forward driving band is a must. Whether on or just over the lip is the handloaders choice. My examples are simply examples. LFCD should work if the other steps are taken into consideration. Simply trying to keep the bullet from moving in, out or even twisting with only a crimp is not gonna work. The LFCD can be hard on the brass, indenting and leaving a permanent "ring" around the case mouth. Works well with soft lead as it leaves a somewhat "square" crimp. Roll Crimp step is not a good crimp for lead bullets without a crimp grove or when using a 427098, rolling in front of the driving band. There is nothing there but the neck retention to hold the bullet when using low volume smokeless powder. That part we already know. Solution For lead bullets of any size (for the 44-40 of course), prefered softer lead....AND original Winchester/Remington JSP bullets, the Redding Profile Crimp is a sure thing. 1. Resize case necks as small as possible (duh within reason) 2. Expand as little as possible but enough not to cause case crumpling 3. Use a Redding Profile Crimp for 44-40 profile bullets. There are other methods, more than one way to skin a cat, but one and two are a must along with a crimp that works for the application as I have already posted. One crimp may look like any other but it's the SIZE that counts. One die, two crimps for soft lead bullets without a crimp grove and (but not limited to) small diameter bullets. Left - .428" Right - .4255" Note: Left .428" bullet is loaded with an RCBS Cowboy deprime die, expanded with a Lee powderthrough die, Bullet seated only with an RCBS Cowboy die then crimped with the Redding profile die. Right: .4255" bullet is loaded with a Lee deprime die, expanded with a Lyman "M" die, Bullet seated only with an RCBS Cowboy die then crimped with the Redding profile die.
  8. This is the best I can explain the Redding Profile Crimp in comparison to other crimps. In my opinion the Redding crimp works in two parts working together;... 1. For lead bullets without a crimp grove, the first part "roll" crimp works best. The roll is so shallow it is more like an exaggerated taper crimp that forms to the O'give curvature (Bullet Profile), rolling enough to squeeze into the soft lead. 2. The "second part" is evident when crimping the small diameter (.4255) Winchester and (.426) Remington JSP bullets. Just like any other die, the amount of the crimp needed is be adjusted by screwing the die in further. The number of turns the die is turned in from the .428" 43-214A crimp setting to the .4255" Winchester JSP "U" crimp setting is only 5/8 of a turn. In the photo below the difference in the "two part" crimp should be evident. First is the roll crimp into the start of the crimp grove. This crimp is nice and snug (in addition to the smaller resizing die size case neck) on the curve of the canular's bottom edge. This first part, the roll crimp, prevents the inertial dislodgement from recoil when used in revolvers. The second crimp (really only one crimp step) is a "U" shape that forms to the inside of the curved canular groove. This "U" shaped formed crimp prevents the bullet from telescoping into the magtube of a rifle due to the pressure from the mag tube spring. The 44-40 Redding Profile Die does not work well with any 44 caliber lead or jacketed bullet that does not have an original 44-40 O'give profile. When using the popular 200gr Oregon Trail Laser Cast bullet, this die may hit the exposed forward driving band. When the Profile Die is used properly, a canular in the case below the bullet's base is not needed. ALWAYS test a batch of your handloads before shooting. This can be a learning process but I promise you will like it once you get the hang of it. I hope this helps. EDITED: The one thing I failed to add was to make sure you resize your cases to the smallest size available and expand to the smallest size available when using the .4255/.426 JSP bullets. The RCBS Cowboy dies do not resize or expand to the smallest size needed to give good neck retention with the smaller diameter bullets.
  9. Here are some early Winchester 44-40 high velocity bullets and regular JSP bullets that show different design canular crimp groves.
  10. Looks like the label dates are 7-15 and 9-15, so it looks to be a "Veritety 5" dated 1915-1916 with the full "Model 94" callout. Rarity 3 = $125 - $250
  11. Roscoe, good point. Not knowing exactly which cartridge you are referring to, in your reply..... In the top photo, left to right, #2 and #4, the crimp rolls in, up and then back out giving the appearance the case is longer. This is why the "U" crimp is not good for a rollcrimp groove or a bullet with no crimp groove at all, but is good for the canular groove which it is basically designed for. In the bottom photo left to right, #1 is roll crimped above the driving band. #2 is a factory Magtech cartridge. #3 is a factory Buffalo Bore cartridge and #7 is a factory Winchester cartridge. The darker swaged bullets are my handloads. The swaged bullets have a canular groove and is simply shown with different crimp methods to show the case mouth position results....but does offer the AOL and driving band issue for older tighter bores in many pre-1900 rifles. Simply trimming and/or seating deaper can cause an increase in chamber pressures......again, can be an issue in older firearms. Triming the case mouth, or setting the die for proper AOL is always something to check. Some dies offer a "two-step" crimp like the Lyman 310 hand-tool. First a roll-crimp, then if "pushed" further, a LFCD type "flat" crimp.
  12. If you are interested in seating depths...if using the lead bullet in the case to the left, the only neck retention is on the forward driving band if your theory is to crimp above the forward driving band on the 427098 bullets. The neck on the case to the right has been extended from .33" to .40" for proper neck retention on deep seated 427098 bullets. This is not needed if crimped just below the top of the forward driving band and properly crimped with the Redding profile crimp into the soft lead. Case necks need to be sized .03" longer than bullet seating depth to give needed base support in addition to the crimp. This is consistent with industry practice in loading lead bullet ammunition in other calibers, such as the .38 Special ~John Kort
  13. Case canular is not needed at the base of the bullet nor is "over resizing" the cases when properly sized and loaded with lead bullets but is nearly a must when using Winchester .425 JSP bullets. The .425 JSP bullets are a smaller diameter than most modern dies allow for when we typically used larger diameter bullets....thus the difference in the standard RCBS dies and special "Cowboy" dies. Roll crimping the 427098 over the forward driving band is to prevent inertial dislodgemen but is not necessary if properly crimped into soft lead. The photos below shows the different crimp methods and shape of the crimps. Most of the "U" shaped crimps are for canulared bullets like the Winchester JSP and Swaged bullet with a canulared crimp groove. Lead bullets with a roll crimp use a....well.....roll crimp. Pending recoil and maybe other issues, some cartridges use an exaggerated "stronger" roll crimp like the 357 and 44 magnums to keep the bullet from inertial dislodgement. Notice the different crimp options with the same die for two different crimp methods as the Lyman 310 hand toll offers. Below is a "U" crimp example in a rollcrimp groove. The clean "curved" profile crimp is evident and used on the bullets with canular such as the Winchester JSP and Swaged bullets with an added canular. There are many ways to skin a cat but sometimes the correct tools work better.
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