Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Savvy Jack

Members
  • Posts

    793
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    1

Savvy Jack last won the day on September 2 2018

Savvy Jack had the most liked content!

1 Follower

About Savvy Jack

  • Birthday 11/10/1966

Previous Fields

  • SASS #
    76698

Contact Methods

  • Website URL
    https://www.44-40wcf.com

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Hickory, NC
  • Interests
    https://www.44-40wcf.com

Recent Profile Visitors

2,249 profile views

Savvy Jack's Achievements

492

Reputation

  1. He also published a similar article on the CASCity forum from 2014 here; https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=52963.0 Also, don't forget the targets he shot at 250 yards with the 44 Henry replicated loads; John Korts replicated 44 Henry loads noted by Blue dots. Original Henry hits shown above with white dots. Bryan Austin's 265 yard (range claims 300 yards) 44-40 hits shown with black holes on target...and large red dots on his ugly mug! John's 250 yard replica hits noted with Red dots...shown above in blue dots. Original Henry hits shown above with white dots
  2. They should never have started using "rifle" vs "pistol" primers. They should have kept the number system prominent that has been in place since the beginning of time. Winchester primers for the 44-40 cartridge, omitting small details; 1873 - Milbank 1874 - Winchester No. 1 1930's - Winchester No. 120 1940's to Present - Winchester No. 111
  3. Magtec uses CBC brass. I had about 50 I threw in then trash
  4. If the primer pockets are not kept clean, crud can build up and a once short seated primer is not a flush seated primer. I do wish I knew the truth for I have yet to run into a batch of primers with deep seating primers. However, they may seat "deeper" than Winchester. Anyhow, here are some Winchester/Starline, Large Rifle vs Large Pistol primers. Details and Photos here On a side note.... Yes, the 44-40 and 38-40 were and still are pistol size rifle cartridges that can be used in pistols. The 44 Magnum is a pistol sized pistol cartridge that can be used in rifles. The 50 BMG is a rifle cartridge than can be used in pistols. The language is important when discussing rifle/pistol. Today the tern "pistol caliber" is used very incorrectly, while "pistol cartridge" would more correctly describe the difference. The 44-40 is a rifle cartridge that can be used in pistols while the .45 "caliber" is used both for pistol cartridges (45 Colt) and rifle cartridges (45-70) G.R. Watrous, Jan 11 1943 Note that the 44 Remington is the same as the 44 WCF and 44-40 but all using different patented primers Winchester 44 WCF Marlin - 44-40 Remington - 44 Remington
  5. Over the past few years I have only heard of one person having strike issues and he is from overseas (or was it Canada). I have never had an issue nor have I heard of anyone else having issues. I think his handle is Indian Joe. When I run across the topics on other forums, I will try to remember to link them here.
  6. It has been my experience that when using .429 and .430 bullets, the LFCD fully crimps BEFORE the collets fully close allowing a small portion of the case mouth to squeeze in between the collets causing a "bump". This is the "weak" area on cases that have split for me. Even when used on smaller diameter bullets, a harsh crimp leaves a "crease" around the case mouth also weakening the case mouth to allow splits. LFCD ISSUES Large diameter bullet (die has been cut for better viewing) .427" diameter bullet To be fair, the measurement of the crimp groove is important!! This Accurate Molds 43-219M was specifically designed for use with the "square groove" LFCD! Crimping smokeless powder loads can be a bit finicky sometimes. This is typically why Winchester factory 44-40 loads use a cannelure on the case under the base of the bullet. Although I do not have it published, I have been able to make a cannelure using a very small pipe cutter with a rounded blade....consistency was tricky, it works...but I do not need to use it with my methods. Case Cannelure Method
  7. Oh yes, soft lead is very forgiving. The bullet on the left in the photo previously mentioned actually has no crimp groove. The case mouth is pressed into the soft lead (Accurate Mold 43-214A) creating it's own crimp groove at the exact location of the start of the o'give. Even if it did have a crimp groove (Accurate mold 43-215C), it would form the same but may have a "void" under the crimp pending the depth of the crimp groove in the bullet. The "void" is not important though....what is important is the resistance, both the crimp and the case neck. The crimp in this photo is a tad bit more harsh.
  8. The 44-40 Redding Profile Crimp die was not designed for 44 Magnum diameter sized bullets. You need to use at lease .428 or smaller. If the bullet does not have an exposed forward driving band, you might can get away with .429 diameter bullets. Here is some information on the Redding use with the 44-40 bullets: https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40/ballistics-handloading/handloading/die-sets/redding-profile-crimp-die The crimp needed for the 44-40 is really based on the crimp groove design on the bullet. However, roll crimping can cause a slight bulge at and just below the roll crimp...hindering chambering in revolvers when using large diameter bullets. The same is for rifle use but the lever gives leverage and the cartridge is forced into the chamber with little resistance, reforming the bulge enough to fit. LFCD The LFCD is best used when the handoader fails to understand the crimping design for such a multifaceted cartridge bullet. It reminds me of horse shoes and handgrenades......when "close enough" just seems to work. The LFCD can be used on any crimp grooved designed bullet or any bullet designed without a crimp groove. Roll Crimp Some crimp dies are made for .427 bullets and can "over crimp" when used on .430 bullets. Some .429 crimp dies will hurt you trying to crimp small diameter .427" and Winchester .4255" JSP bullets...not enough crimp! Too much roll with most 44-40 brass will leave a bulge below the roll crimp as mentioned above. Winchester never really used a hard roll crimp and what roll crimps were used are better replicated with the Redding Profile Die....both JSP and Lead bullets. Redding Profile Crimp The RPCD performs two crimps. 1st is the "roll crimp" is performed, and the deeper in the die is turned, the crimp turns into a "U" crimp just like factory Winchester JSP bullets. The RPCD also smooths the neck at the crimp. Some folks crimp with a roll crimp, then run the cartridge back through a RPCD to smooth the bulge back down. The aforementioned only explains the crimp used, not the proper neck resizing for the bullet to be used. The below photo shows two different crimps applied with the Redding Profile Crimp Die The proper 44-40 "Profile" does not use exposed foreword driving bands...the O'give starts below the crimp, not above the crimp. This was in part from being designed to sit on top of a full load of BP were such crimps were not needed. This is also what prevents neck bulges below the crimp. Modern 44-40 Bullets The most popular commercially cast bullet on the market is cast from Magma Engineering's "Cowboy" 44-40 bullet Mold. Each commercial casting manufacture calls it by their own name such as Oregon Trail's "Laser Cast" and another who calls it the "Desperado"....plus many more...as well ass other designs that are very similar. Easily seen is the exposed forward driving band as well as the bulge created just below the roll crimp. This is worse on larger diameter bullets with deeper grooves, where the loader really applies a deep crimp like a 357/44 magnum. This is the main cause for chambering issues in revolvers The photo below shows what happens when the Redding Profile Die is used on the wrong designed bullet used for the 44-40. This is not a 44-40 profile bullet. The Redding Profile Die dislikes large diameter bullets with exposed foreword driving bands
  9. Crap, it was on there before I edited the whole thing...adding it again
  10. as set up for 38/357 example, however... 38/357 Parts Missing for Manufacture Designed Operations.... Small Primer Feed Transfer Bar pn# 86758 (large primer feeder installed) Expander Drop Tube (case neck expander) pn# 86650 RCBS Rotor for powder drop (rotor pictured is custom for large volume charge of Reloder 7) The unopened case transfer rails are for 38/357 and the other for 9mm...can be seen in first photo of original post
  11. $600 plus shipping continental US ONLY. Originally sold as a 38/357 press. Can also be used for 45 Colt, 45 Auto, 44 Magnum and other cartridges with the correct parts. This press has been modified to also work with the 44-40 Winchester cartridge. Modifications for use with the 44-40: Honed out the Case Feed Base (pn# 86536) to accept the larger rim of the 44-40 case. Can still be used for all other cases Honed out one Case Tube Feed Index Wheel hole (pn# 86532) can still be used for all other cases No other modifications Parts used for 44-40 operations Case Transfer Bar for large primers and large base cases such as the 44 Magnum Adjust Transfer Rails for large cases Using Large Primer Feed Transfer Bar Machined out a 38/357 Bullet Seater Guide to use with .429 bullets Used other than GM dies Replaced Little Dandy Powder Measure with a Lee Powder Measure Aftermarket/Custom primer tube (brass) 38/357 Parts Missing for Manufacture Designed Operations Small Primer Feed Transfer Bar pn# 86758 Expander Drop Tube (case neck expander) pn# 86650 RCBS Rotor for powder drop (rotor pictured is custom for large volume charge of Reloder 7) SPARE PARTS LIST Operations Manual/Parts List (40 pages) #86587 9mm case transfer bar assy. #86600 38/357 case transfer bar assy. #? large case/large primer case transfer bar - used #? 45 Auto case transfer bar (no block) - used Primer Tray Assembly - used (IMHO junk) Bullet Seat Link Assembly - used (repaired) plastic case retainers front rail - new front rail - used Rt & Lt rear case rail - new Rt & Lt rear case rail - used Large Primer Transfer Bar - used Bullet Seater Guide, .44 (I think .429) - machined out 38/357 #86780 Paws, 38/357 #86599case transfer rail springs #86792case transfer adjustment gauge #65793 Primer transfer bar gauges for both small and large #86604 Pawl Springs #86718 Bullet Stop Springs #86712 Bullet Stop Spring .44 Cal. x2 #86717 Seater Plug Coil Spring #86719 Seat Plug Adjustment Screw #86671 Bullet Seater Adjustment Stud x3 #86520 Arm Shoulder Bolt Linkage #86590 case transfer rail spacer #86541 Cap Screw X2 #86716 Seater Plug Spring Retainer #86595 Rail Spring Holder x4 Here is what you get...this photo only! I can add other photos so you can what I had been doing with it with the 44-40.This is one of the set-ups I used to give an idea as to what can be done.
  12. I do not know what diameter the Redding dies prefer. The Lee FCD is really designed for a shallow crimp bullet like the .4255" JSP of which Winchester used for a similar crimp for a few years. It can be used on bullets with no crimp groove but the dimeter should be .427" and no larger than .428". It works very well with Dick Dasterdly's Bug Lube bullets which have a shallow groove and soft lead. Hard lead is less forgiving on everything and more precision is needed. Some bullets have a deep roll crimp groove and some tight chambers may not like the deep roll if the diameter is too large. It can create a bulge just below the roll crimp and keep the cartridge from chambering in tight chambers. This is common with thick Remington brass. Can happen with Starline but it is thin enough to be forced in sometimes by the lever's action of the rifle without really even realizing there is an issue. It is most noticed when chambering in revolvers. Starline is the best, not too thin or "elasticy" like Winchester brass and not too thick like Remington! CBC brass sucks (rim issues for some case holders), and I dislike Hornady and other brands for similar issues. If you use .428" bullets, you can use nearly any die set. RCBS Cowboy Dies work well with these sizes. Lee dies work very well with smaller diameter bullets and sometimes you have to use a modified 44 Mag die for larger .433 diameter bullets...and is another can-o-worms. It can get complicated...but doesn't have to be. If you are using a Dillon, it would be best to find someone else that uses one and follow them through the process. The 44-40 is very multifaceted than most realize. What works for some, may not work for others.
  13. The Cartridge The 44 W.C.F. (Marlin's 44-40) "caliber" cartridges can be assembled using several different diameter bullets...typically, but not limited to, .4255", .427", .428", .429" and even .430". Dies need to be cut appropriately to load these various diameters with satisfactory results. If you resize a case using a resizing die for for a .4255" and expand for a .4255", then try to cram a .430" diameter bullet into the case mouth, it will get real ugly real fast. Winchester discontinued their .4255" JSP bullets for handloaders a few years ago and never did offer their .427" swaged lead bullets for handloaders with the advent of CAS. Both the .4255" and .427" is all Winchester ever used. The Barrel Many early Winchester barrel bores were as small as .4225" and as large as .433", but Winchester only manufactured the two different diameter bullets. Modern Today, Japchester still makes .427" bored barrels from what I hear, while other's (I have an Italichester myself) make typically .429" bored barrels. Chamber Pressures In order to keep chamber pressures below max, the .4255" JSP and .427" lead is all that Winchester would load. Other larger bore barrels will except larger diameter bullets BUT great care must betaken to not load a large diameter bullet into a small diameter bore. This could cause chamber pressures to exceed max pressures. In general, many shooters choose to slug each bore and load a size larger than the bore. This is not necessary for lightly loaded CAS loads. Even if accuracy is desired, I use a .428" sized lead bullet in a .429" bore with great accuracy out to 265 yards when loaded to "max loads", creating enough pressures to expand the led into the bore. Many shooters have success with different applications, you will just have to see what works for you. 1. Slug Barrel 2. Choose diameter to be used 3. Choose dies to said diameter bullets to be used. (make sure they work well with your press) 4. Choose the appropriate crimp (crimp groove vs no crimp groove) Loading The 44-40
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.