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Wonder why we don't have stags here?


Alpo

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Reading Harry Potter, again. When Harry produces a patronus, it's a stag. Because when his father changed into an animal, he became a stag.

 

In India they collect the fallen horns from stags and use them to make pistol grips.

 

But we don't have stags. We have bucks. All our little deer - whitetail, blacktail, mule - are bucks. An elk is a bull, and so is a moose. No stags.

 

Just wonder why.

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WhyWHILE that guy gave a nice very very very very repetitious explanation of the difference between a deer and a stag, what he basically came up with was a stag is an older male deer.

 

Maybe in England, or India. But not here. That is my point. I have never heard anyone refer to a deer in this country as a stag. So why don't we refer to 9-year-old 250 lb 16-point bucks as stags? Because we don't. They're 16 point bucks. We don't have stags.

Edited by Alpo
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Why do we call an elk a moose, which is in the genus Alces and is an elk everywhere else? And why do we call a wapati an elk?

 

Why do we call trees in the cypress family 'cedars' when the word originated from Cedrus, the cedar of Lebanon, the Deodar, etc; totally different family of trees?

 

One could go on. And on.

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I'm sure it's a regional thing, but here in california the old-timers have always used the term "stag" to reference a buck that has been neutered.  Not that there are a bunch of ambitious nimrods running about the landscape castrating young male deer - it can happen naturally.  Sgt McDermott had shot a few in his hunting career; usually the antlers tended to be very strange.  (I have, however, known of hunters capturing young wild pigs and cutting then releasing them for future harvesting)

 

And by the way, for any who may not know, we practice "Western Count" when describing antlers:  the points on only one side are counted.  Thus, a buck with eight points total is a "four-pointer."  Our hunters are a modest bunch.  ^_^

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When I was little I remember my Dad and other guys using the term “Stag” on bucks they thought had more size or a very large rack compared to other bucks. 
 

I have always thought European stags were of a different genus or species. 
 

Some interesting reading:

https://a-z-animals.com/blog/stag-vs-deer-whats-the-difference/
 

https://coredifferences.com/difference-between-stag-and-buck-deer/
 

And just for fun…

https://worlddeer.org/red-deer-vs-elk/

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In some parts of the country,  the male of the deer species was/is called a hart! Hence the name Hartford which signifies a male deer crossing a stream/creek/river.

 

Coloquial names often fade as inter-regional communication becomes more rapid and frequent.

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It boils down to usages in different places. A stag is a large, mature buck deer. Such an animal is called a stag here now and then, but it's not all that common a term. In England, on the other hand, it's a common usage, especially with red deer.

 

The use of "stag" as a men-only party apparently arose in England. The stag deer is associated with masculinity; the leader of  the herd, etc.

 

The famous painting, "Monarch of the Glen" is of the iconic red deer stag:

 

The Monarch of the Glen (painting) - Wikipedia

Edited by Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619
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4 hours ago, Alpo said:

Reading Harry Potter, again. When Harry produces a patronus, it's a stag. Because when his father changed into an animal, he became a stag.

 

In India they collect the fallen horns from stags and use them to make pistol grips.

 

But we don't have stags. We have bucks. All our little deer - whitetail, blacktail, mule - are bucks. An elk is a bull, and so is a moose. No stags.

 

Just wonder why.

Because.  Just because.   :huh:

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anymore with the "renaming" and socially 'inacceptable use of common words' i dont have an answer short of saying that you gotta check with the DNC to find out if you can use that "WORD" , having said that ill be perfectly honest and admit that i know there are red stags in parts of the world that look a lot like some of the deer we have here , im guessing its a cultural thing in the "naming process" but it makes it fun for big game hunters looking to fill out their dance cards 

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6 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

And by the way, for any who may not know, we practice "Western Count" when describing antlers:  the points on only one side are counted.  Thus, a buck with eight points total is a "four-pointer."  Our hunters are a modest bunch.  ^_^

Which side? His right side has 11+. 

BigMulie 001.jpg

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1 hour ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

Which side? His right side has 11+. 

BigMulie 001.jpg

 

Looks like one of Sgt McDermott's "stags~!"  :lol:

 

"In the west, the brow tines are not counted. The points on each side are counted separately. In the west the point count on a deer will be expressed as, for example, a 4 by 4, means the deer has four tines on each side, not counting the brow tines. Often the antlers are not symmetrical. A deer having a 4 by 5, or a 3 by 4 array is self explanatory."

 

When both sides are equal, like 3x3, one would commonly just call it "a three-pointer" rather than "a three by three."  Hence my comment about 'counting only one side;' the way I originally stated it may have been misleading. 

 

With yours, I'm gonna guess... an eight by three?  :)

 

Whatever it is, it's a dandy mount!  ^_^ 

Edited by Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967
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1 hour ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

 

Looks like one of Sgt McDermott's "stags~!"  :lol:

 

"In the west, the brow tines are not counted. The points on each side are counted separately. In the west the point count on a deer will be expressed as, for example, a 4 by 4, means the deer has four tines on each side, not counting the brow tines. Often the antlers are not symmetrical. A deer having a 4 by 5, or a 3 by 4 array is self explanatory."

 

When both sides are equal, like 3x3, one would commonly just call it "a three-pointer" rather than "a three by three."  Hence my comment about 'counting only one side;' the way I originally stated it may have been misleading. 

 

With yours, I'm gonna guess... an eight by three?  :)

 

Whatever it is, it's a dandy mount!  ^_^ 

Well, since all so-called civilized life in the west was derived from people moving west from the east the eastern method of counting points on a deer is correct. The western method is just a bunch of brats trying to be different. :P

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In the US, it's a fanny pack.  In the UK, it's a bum bag.

In the US, it's a truck.  In the UK, it's a lorry.

In the US, it's a mustache.  In the UK, it's a moustache.

In the US, it's a hood.  In the UK, it's a bonnet.

In the US, it's a windshield.  In the UK, it's a windscreen.

In the US, it's a trunk.  In the UK, it's a boot.

In the US, it's a French fry.  In the UK, it's a chip.

In the US, it's a chip.  In the UK, it's a crisp.

In the US, it's a rotary.  In the UK, it's a roundabout.

In the US, it's a dessert.  In the UK, it's a pudding.

In the US, it's a line.  In the UK, it's a queue.

In the US, it's aluminum .  In the UK, it's aluminium.

In the US, it's a buck.  In the UK, it's a stag.

 

Nothing more than that.

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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PITA will tell you we don't have stags because murderous hunters kill them all before they get to full age.

If you are in Oz or the UK, don't root for your team, get stuffed at the dinner table then wipe your face with a napkin.

Edited by bgavin
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2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

In the US, it's a fanny pack.  In the UK, it's a bum bag.

In the US, it's a truck.  In the UK, it's a lorry.

In the US, it's a mustache.  In the UK, it's a moustache.

In the US, it's a hood.  In the UK, it's a bonnet.

In the US, it's a windshield.  In the UK, it's a windscreen.

In the US, it's a trunk.  In the UK, it's a boot.

In the US, it's a French fry.  In the UK, it's a chip.

In the US, it's a chip.  In the UK, it's a crisp.

In the US, it's a rotary.  In the UK, it's a roundabout.

In the US, it's a dessert.  In the UK, it's a pudding.

In the US, it's a line.  In the UK, it's a queue.

In the US, it's aluminum .  In the UK, it's aluminium.

In the US, it's a buck.  In the UK, it's a stag.

 

Nothing more than that.

Those Brits just don't know proper English.:rolleyes:

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9 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

With yours, I'm gonna guess... an eight by three?  :)

 

Whatever it is, it's a dandy mount!  ^_^ 

"It depends". The P&Y and B&C record books say, "To be counted a point, the projection must be at least one inch long, with the length exceeding width at one inch or more of length." That would make him at least 11x5.

 

My dad harvested that one probably back in the late 40's or early 50's near the small town of York, about nine miles north of here. Following a drunken party at their cabin/home the night before, he picked up his Winchester and planned to walk up a draw behind the house and sleep off his hangover on a sunny hillside. Somewhere up that canyon, this big ol' boy jumped up out of his bed thirty yards away, and he said he just brought that ol' M94 up to hip level and pulled the trigger. The .30-30 bullet went through the neck and down he went... then he had this stinkin' ol' mule deer to take care of instead napping the day away in the sun. :lol: About 40 years ago, I swiped the horns off the garage wall, took 'em to a taxidermist, and gave him the mount for Father's Day. The taxidermist pointed out where the skull had been badly broken some time in the past, and said that's why his horns grew that way.

 

Back in the 70's, a cousin killed one in the same general area, a typical 4x4, with a spread of just under 36" - this one is a little under 26" extreme spread.

Edited by Three Foot Johnson
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8 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

Well, since all so-called civilized life in the west was derived from people moving west from the east the eastern method of counting points on a deer is correct. The western method is just a bunch of brats trying to be different. :P

We moved west about the same time we threw the British out...and pretty much for the same reasons.  We don't want to do it someone else's way.

 

And you voluntarily moved back east so you are able to do it their way and have someone to blame when it all goes south.

 

Pity.  Pity.  We miss you out here. :D

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9 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

Well, since all so-called civilized life in the west was derived from people moving west from the east the eastern method of counting points on a deer is correct. The western method is just a bunch of brats trying to be different. :P

The best description of the west coast I've ever read.  You should write textbooks. 

 

We use buck and occasionally stag in these parts.

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1 hour ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

We moved west about the same time we threw the British out...and pretty much for the same reasons.  We don't want to do it someone else's way.

 

And you voluntarily moved back east so you are able to do it their way and have someone to blame when it all goes south.

 

Pity.  Pity.  We miss you out here. :D

I have more freedom here than I ever could in CA or OR. Way better hunting and fishing than I could ever have in the Southwest. And it’s not hotter than a pizza oven half the year. ;)

 

And Thanks. :)

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