Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Now that the Kid finished working on Dad's truck (valve job on my '01 Dodge Ram 3.9) he gets to work on his "new" boat, a 1979 Correct Craft. It has a few minor issues, of course, but is fundamentally sound. It has a total of 511 hours on the Hobbs meter, and had been stored in the corner of a shop for the last 18 years. So one of the issues is a leak in the port side exhaust manifold "log." Should be a simple gasket replacement, but...! the "elbow" will not separate. Note the picture below - the "elbow" is fastened with four nuts on a flange that mounts on studs extending from the end of the manifold "log." Well... the nuts are loosened. One would expect it to just separate, but it will not budge. It's been tapped, yanked on, pried, slugged with a dead-blow mallet... it ain't a-comin' off. Suggestions? Is there maybe something internal we're not aware of? And why does the simple stuff gotta be not so simple!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Bigger hammer. Grandfather’s philosophy: ”With a big enough hammer and enough money you can accomplish anything.” Just trying to save you some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 I see a hole for all that money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 Oh... I forget to mention that the part is cast aluminum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Loosen the hose clamp and remove the hose from the elbow. Now remove both pieces as a single unit. With it off the engine you can see inside and possibly formulate a plan. I suspect that corrosion is involved. Is this where the thermostat is located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Check out this forum. Those manifolds may be a titanium alloy and not aluminum. http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?397345-Commander-Marine-351-5-8-Engine-Manifolds-Titanium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Use a hand-held propane torch and heat it up.....not too much!! This looks like soft-metal alloy. Beforehand, go buy a very hard good-size (appropriate size) HARD plastic hammer and keep striking that part that’s supposed to separate from the other. When aluminum, or other soft-metal composites corrode, they tend to fuse. Be careful with the heat. You don’t know what max temperature those softer alloys can take, but you need to heat them all the way through to get them to expand. . That’s how I’d start off, anyway. To properly heat the metal up all the way through might take a while, on-again/off-again. Go slow and easy with the torch. The parts could be corroded to the point that the will not separate, but from your photos, it does not appear so. Come back and let us know how it goes/went. CatBrules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 I'm with the take the hose off and pull the whole mess off. I'd also look for a 5th nut and stud. Also, you can mix ATF and acetone to make a super rust and corrosion penetrate. ATF works great on rust, the acetone thins it out to get into tight spots and then evaporates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Like @Cat Brulessaid. Use a propane torch and heat the part that surrounds the other to expand the opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 43 minutes ago, Hendo said: Also, you can mix ATF and acetone to make a super rust and corrosion penetrate. ATF works great on rust, the acetone thins it out to get into tight spots and then evaporates. +100 Best penetrating oil there is. 50-50 ATF Acetone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El CupAJoe Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Have you tried dynamite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 6 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: Now that the Kid finished working on Dad's truck (valve job on my '01 Dodge Ram 3.9) he gets to work on his "new" boat, a 1979 Correct Craft. It has a few minor issues, of course, but is fundamentally sound. It has a total of 511 hours on the Hobbs meter, and had been stored in the corner of a shop for the last 18 years. So one of the issues is a leak in the port side exhaust manifold "log." Should be a simple gasket replacement, but...! the "elbow" will not separate. Note the picture below - the "elbow" is fastened with four nuts on a flange that mounts on studs extending from the end of the manifold "log." Well... the nuts are loosened. One would expect it to just separate, but it will not budge. It's been tapped, yanked on, pried, slugged with a dead-blow mallet... it ain't a-comin' off. Suggestions? Is there maybe something internal we're not aware of? And why does the simple stuff gotta be not so simple!? Marine mechanic? That's what the Navy is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Quote nd why does the simple stuff gotta be not so simple!? Murphy’s corollary: Everything is harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 " Deep Creep " made by Sea Foam ..... When things Won't move In my shop that are suppose to ,,, they get a shot of it ,,, Then I go drink a cup of Coffee or Two depending on Need .... Heat is seldom needed since I started using Deep Creep.... And my temperament is much better now .... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 At least pull the hose and look in there. It may be like the old Ford flat head water pumps---that have one bolt that is inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largo casey #19191 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Drive a good stiff putty knife into the gasket to get it started. Largo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Rio Pete Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Try this: https://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Coat fittings and bolts etc. with copper anti-seize when you reassemble. X2 on the Sea-Foam Deep Creep, it's fantastic! OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 8 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: ....... X2 on the Sea-Foam Deep Creep, it's fantastic! OLG ....... and, apparently, available here on the other side of the fishin' hole ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted May 16, 2021 Author Share Posted May 16, 2021 Well alrighty, then... Update and another question. After a couple weeks soaking with Deep Creep (thankee for that recommendation!), some judicious application of MAPP flame, much time with pry bars and chisels (wedged between studs and body of elbow), the Kid finally got it off. It was an absolute booger. The studs will be replaced - the originals did not fare well in the operation. He'll run a tap into the stud holes in the "log" to clean 'em up, install new studs, run a drill through the stud holes in the elbow and clean those out, then cut a new gasket and re-assemble. This thing carries both exhaust (hot) and water (not so hot). So, the next question is - what gasket material would one use? Rubber? Silicone? Paper? Can't tell what the original gasket was - it almost seemed to be cement-soaked paper. Nasty stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Hmmm....Cement soaked paper??? Asbestos? How about this: https://www.boatid.com/sierra/sierra-exhaust-systems-3533926927.html LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Share Posted May 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said: Hmmm....Cement soaked paper??? Asbestos? How about this: https://www.boatid.com/sierra/sierra-exhaust-systems-3533926927.html LL Thanks, Loophole. Similar, but not a match. However, I did download their catalogue, and I'll browse through it. If we can't find it, he can make his own - as soon as he decides which material to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeronimo Caffiend Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 Platinum cured silicone for the gasket is "the best". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largo casey #19191 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 Here we have a Gasket making shop.They have all kinds of material to make gaskets forOilfield Compressors & equipment.Check around your area. Largo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 BOAT = break out another $1000 dry spot in the lake to throw $$$$ at CB (got a couple of em ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Shooter Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 22 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: Well alrighty, then... Update and another question. After a couple weeks soaking with Deep Creep (thankee for that recommendation!), some judicious application of MAPP flame, much time with pry bars and chisels (wedged between studs and body of elbow), the Kid finally got it off. It was an absolute booger. The studs will be replaced - the originals did not fare well in the operation. He'll run a tap into the stud holes in the "log" to clean 'em up, install new studs, run a drill through the stud holes in the elbow and clean those out, then cut a new gasket and re-assemble. This thing carries both exhaust (hot) and water (not so hot). So, the next question is - what gasket material would one use? Rubber? Silicone? Paper? Can't tell what the original gasket was - it almost seemed to be cement-soaked paper. Nasty stuff. I’d think that the gasket looked like cement soaked paper because of the corrosion. You might want to try these Marine Gaskets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major General Shagnasty Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/16/2021 at 7:46 PM, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: Thanks, Loophole. Similar, but not a match. However, I did download their catalogue, and I'll browse through it. If we can't find it, he can make his own - as soon as he decides which material to use. I had to remove the exhaust riser on one of two 165 mercruisers in my floating 401k and it was a booger, Mine was so rusted inside all the passages were plug so after looking through the e-web I found the best price at Fredwarner marine supply. Check them out and you can save lot. Good luck with the rest of it. Oh ya don't forget the impeller for the water pump, they don't like to sit in one place for years and years. Out drive seal will need attention also, and the list goes on and on and on. I almost for got, you can not use paper gasket, the correct gasket will have metal sandwiched in-between a hard paper that has been covered with a material that will bond with the metal when it get hot, Hench the booger to get off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted May 18, 2021 Author Share Posted May 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Major General Shagnasty said: I had to remove the exhaust riser on one of two 165 mercruisers in my floating 401k and it was a booger, Mine was so rusted inside all the passages were plug so after looking through the e-web I found the best price at Fredwarner marine supply. Check them out and you can save lot. Good luck with the rest of it. Oh ya don't forget the impeller for the water pump, they don't like to sit in one place for years and years. Out drive seal will need attention also, and the list goes on and on and on. I almost for got, you can not use paper gasket, the correct gasket will have metal sandwiched in-between a hard paper that has been covered with a material that will bond with the metal when it get hot, Hench the booger to get off. Thanks, MJS. I searched the Fredwarner site, couldn't find gaskets for the Commander risers. Tried to find a way to contact them, but it seems they are strictly internet access. Meanwhile, I did send off an inquiry note to Correct Craft (now Nautique). Your observation about the gasket composition is interesting... almost like an inside-out exhaust manifold gasket. I picked up a hunk of the original, and it was really strange - almost like a piece of ceramic. Meanwhile, the search continues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major General Shagnasty Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 I have had great success with a neoprime gasket material from Napa, I double up on the gasket with a nice film of ex-stream heat rtv on the sealing surfaces. The gasket you are looking for may not exist anymore, sounds like it was made from asbestos, we had lots of those in the 60;'s and 70's until they were band. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted May 18, 2021 Author Share Posted May 18, 2021 42 minutes ago, Major General Shagnasty said: I have had great success with a neoprime gasket material from Napa, I double up on the gasket with a nice film of ex-stream heat rtv on the sealing surfaces. The gasket you are looking for may not exist anymore, sounds like it was made from asbestos, we had lots of those in the 60;'s and 70's until they were band. Hope this helps. Thanks again! I got off a query to Correct Craft/Nautique late last night, and received a reply this morning referring me to a Nautique dealer in Clovis, about a 45 minute drive from here. As it happens, I have a class in Clovis today starting at 10:00, about five minutes from the boat dealer... which opens at 0900! On my way! And if it's NOT available (likely to be the case) your advice on neoprene and RTV is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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