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Foard County News, SASS #77236

Reopening the Country. Reopening our sport.

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Posted (edited)

I think it is still too early to think about that. Remember, SASS does not control local ranges, only State and above matches. And, for some strange reason, I don't think SASS has any infectious disease doctors on staff. 

Edited by Marshal Chance Morgun
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2 hours ago, Foard County News, SASS #77236 said:

Have there been any official guidance on how to conduct matches as we approach Phase 1, Phase 2, and Phase 3? Has SASS put anything together?

I'd be surprised to see SASS take on that kind of protective medical advisement, liability-wise.  

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Locally, we've been trying to figure out how we can reopen retail businesses, restaurants, and club functions.  Guidelines are very vague at this point.  Asymptomatic people may have the virus, but no one seems sure if they can spread it.  Face masks and social distancing seem to help, although the makeshift and surgical masks are a panacea, and the virus has been shown capable of being spread (cough, cough) from over 25 ft. away.

 

We've been discussing how in the world we can shoot a match while everyone maintains a six-foot separation.  OK...Everyone wears a mask.  If you are sick, stay the hell home.  Take temperatures at the gate.  Electronic target scoring eliminates the three spotter positions.  Lots of movement by shooters and Loading and Unloading Table monitors.  VERY long loading tables.  The TO gets a timer, N-95 mask, and all the Lysol spray he or she wants.  Brass gets picked-up the next day.  MDQ if you breathe while shooting.  (OK...I just made that last one up. :D)

 

The very core of SASS is the people.  Not being able to hug, shake hands, share guns and bad jokes, or share a meal after the match kind of defeats the whole purpose of spending the kid's inheritance on a fantasy sport.  Once the dust settles, perhaps by the Fall, we'll have a better idea of how SASS can survive.

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3 hours ago, Foard County News, SASS #77236 said:

Have there been any official guidance on how to conduct matches as we approach Phase 1, Phase 2, and Phase 3? Has SASS put anything together?



I think that while such guidance might prove welcome and helpful, we may not see anything like that.  A general guideline of non-mandatory advice would be helpful, and would be a good reference for each club to begin.

 

I’d say, try to pick up where you left of, while working in appropriate, common sense cautionary measures.  I suggest an advance meeting of each club’s officers to discuss and to formalize it’s own approach.  
 

Cat Brules

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Phase 1.  Real black powder only.  Smoke will kept the China flu away.

Phase 2.  Black powder subs permitted.  38 caliber and smaller resumed. 

Phase 3.  Mandatory oath to not take up arms against the South.  

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1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

I'd be surprised to see SASS take on that kind of protective medical advisement, liability-wise.  

Exactly. 

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Posted (edited)

There are some questions that need to be thought through, that's for sure.

 

How effective will TO's be at 6 feet?  Mixed.  The vast majority of the time the proximity rule doesn't matter as long as the timer picks up the shots.  How often do you actually put your hands on people while TOing?  I do it extremely rarely.

 

How many stages will make it difficult to maintain distancing?  I don't know, but posse size will need to be smaller, maybe 10-12 max.  Working posses.

 

I think two at a time on the LT and ULT will be the max advisable.  It will be summer/spring when we shoot, the virus doesn't stay airborne well in hot humid climates, speaking only for the southeastern US.  

 

What about the brass?  I'll ask my wife to pick mine up, and I'll pick hers up.  People might need to designate their brass pickers or just leave it.

 

What about the timer?  We need to be able to wipe that sucker down good between TOs. 

 

We need something to grab the shotgun targets with too.  The LT and ULT tops will need disinfecting.

 

The tablets or scoresheets.  That will take some thought as well.

 

What about people traveling across state lines from higher risk to lower risk.  Will we be able to do that?  If not I think State Matches won't be financially feasible for a while.  Attendance will be too low.  Or else awards will have to be scaled back. 

 

 

Or, alternatively, we begin to view this whole Covid thing as just another virus, similar to the flu, that's going to sweep through every year and kill off 30-80 thousand people and we just ignore it, or use a bit more commons sense, and get on with our lives. 

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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12 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

 

 

 

Or, alternatively, we begin to view this whole Covid thing as just another virus, similar to the flu, that's going to sweep through every year and kill off 30-80 thousand people and we just ignore it, or use a bit more commons sense, and get on with our lives. 

This

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10 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Or, alternatively, we begin to view this whole Covid thing as just another virus, similar to the flu, that's going to sweep through every year and kill off 30-80 thousand people and we just ignore it, or use a bit more commons sense, and get on with our lives. 

 

This, I think.

 

Until I get a vaccination maybe a year from now, since I am in that high risk age bracket, I will probably avoid shaking hands with cowboys and getting hugs from cowgirls, and probably use the hand sanitizer more frequently during the match.  If someone is coughing and sneezing I will do my best to distance myself.  That's about it. Time to enjoy ourselves again. 

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To keep numbers lower, it should be limited to only those that shoot slower than me.

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Posted (edited)

West Virginia Executive order 9-20 item 1 letter g allows engaging in outdoor activity while maintaining 6' distance and 10 or less people. 10 per posse is perfect for me. The TO stands back when I shoot anyway. Brass is too hot for virus and rarely do I see the older guys bend over and pick it up with their hands. I'm shooting this month if my essential work allows...for sure next month. 

Edited by Trooper Ozzy
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Posted (edited)

I started out pretty cautious with this thing.  We've been in lock-down since the second week of March and done a pretty good job of staying isolated.


Having said that, it's starting to look like a lot more people are infected than just the positive results.  At the same time we hear about inflated death toll numbers by a very loose classification of what constitutes a Covid caused death.

 

I'm not there yet, but I'm beginning to think this whole thing may have been overblown and other than older people or people with 'co-morbidities'  this thing may not be as big of a deal as has been portrayed.  Maybe a death rate similar to the flu, .01% or so.  Not good, but not 'change everyone's life forever' bad either. 

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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15 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

This, I think.

 

Until I get a vaccination maybe a year from now, since I am in that high risk age bracket, I will probably avoid shaking hands with cowboys and getting hugs from cowgirls, and probably use the hand sanitizer more frequently during the match.  If someone is coughing and sneezing I will do my best to distance myself.  That's about it. Time to enjoy ourselves again. 

 

Speak for yourself

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20 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

This, I think.

 

Until I get a vaccination maybe a year from now, since I am in that high risk age bracket, I will probably avoid shaking hands with cowboys and getting hugs from cowgirls, and probably use the hand sanitizer more frequently during the match.  

To each his own. If you want to shake hands with cowgirls and hug the cowboys more power to you. Be careful using my hand sanitizer though. Its made with Ever clear and CBD gel. Good both external and internal. I keep it away from the firing line and hot brass though. 

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18 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

This, I think.

 

Until I get a vaccination maybe a year from now, since I am in that high risk age bracket, I will probably avoid shaking hands with cowboys and getting hugs from cowgirls, and probably use the hand sanitizer more frequently during the match.  If someone is coughing and sneezing I will do my best to distance myself.  That's about it. Time to enjoy ourselves again. 

Great advice J-Bar. Everyone should think about taking care of themselves and others. If one is extremely high risk then they should be more careful. We can all do each other a favor and if we are sick or not feeling good then stay home and not take a chance on making your friends sick. Be smart and get back to living

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44 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

There are some questions that need to be thought through, that's for sure.

 

How effective will TO's be at 6 feet?  Mixed.  The vast majority of the time the proximity rule doesn't matter as long as the timer picks up the shots.  How often do you actually put your hands on people while TOing?  I do it extremely rarely.

 

How many stages will make it difficult to maintain distancing?  I don't know, but posse size will need to be smaller, maybe 10-12 max.  Working posses.

 

I think two at a time on the LT and ULT will be the max advisable.  It will be summer/spring when we shoot, the virus doesn't stay airborne well in hot humid climates, speaking only for the southeastern US.  

 

What about the brass?  I'll ask my wife to pick mine up, and I'll pick hers up.  People might need to designate their brass pickers or just leave it.

 

What about the timer?  We need to be able to wipe that sucker down good between TOs. 

 

We need something to grab the shotgun targets with too.  The LT and ULT tops will need disinfecting.

 

The tablets or scoresheets.  That will take some thought as well.

 

What about people traveling across state lines from higher risk to lower risk.  Will we be able to do that?  If not I think State Matches won't be financially feasible for a while.  Attendance will be too low.  Or else awards will have to be scaled back. 

 

 

Or, alternatively, we begin to view this whole Covid thing as just another virus, similar to the flu, that's going to sweep through every year and kill off 30-80 thousand people and we just ignore it, or use a bit more commons sense, and get on with our lives. 

Unfortunately, in our club, our TOs do have to tap people who can't hear the timer (maybe 1/4 of us).  But other than that, you about pegged what's needed.  

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3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

There are some questions that need to be thought through, that's for sure.

 

How effective will TO's be at 6 feet?  Mixed.  The vast majority of the time the proximity rule doesn't matter as long as the timer picks up the shots.  How often do you actually put your hands on people while TOing?  I do it extremely rarely.

 

How many stages will make it difficult to maintain distancing?  I don't know, but posse size will need to be smaller, maybe 10-12 max.  Working posses.

 

I think two at a time on the LT and ULT will be the max advisable.  It will be summer/spring when we shoot, the virus doesn't stay airborne well in hot humid climates, speaking only for the southeastern US.  

 

What about the brass?  I'll ask my wife to pick mine up, and I'll pick hers up.  People might need to designate their brass pickers or just leave it.

 

What about the timer?  We need to be able to wipe that sucker down good between TOs. 

 

We need something to grab the shotgun targets with too.  The LT and ULT tops will need disinfecting.

 

The tablets or scoresheets.  That will take some thought as well.

 

What about people traveling across state lines from higher risk to lower risk.  Will we be able to do that?  If not I think State Matches won't be financially feasible for a while.  Attendance will be too low.  Or else awards will have to be scaled back. 

 

 

Or, alternatively, we begin to view this whole Covid thing as just another virus, similar to the flu, that's going to sweep through every year and kill off 30-80 thousand people and we just ignore it, or use a bit more commons sense, and get on with our lives. 

Except that I haven't heard one medical professional or scientist say this is like the flu.  Oh, wait, they're lying, this is the new world order.  I forgot.

 

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What if we just shoot for the fun of it, no timer no scores person who has the biggest smile wins.

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One of the clubs here held their regular monthly match January, February, March, and April, just asking everybody to wear a "period correct" mask the last two matches (bandanna). Me, I skipped March & April cuz I've become kind of accustomed to breathing.

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5 hours ago, Nasty Newt # 7365 said:

Except that I haven't heard one medical professional or scientist say this is like the flu.  Oh, wait, they're lying, this is the new world order.  I forgot.

 

Similar to the flu in the sense that Covid is also a virus and it appears it may have a similar death rate.

 

Unfortunately, as a country we’re going through the polarization kabuki dance right now.


One group has decided it’s Captain Tripps and if we aren’t super careful we’re all going to die.

 

The other group has decided it’s a big fuss over essentially nothing.

 

I’m waiting and watching, thinking maybe they’re both wrong and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

Have you ever seen those videos of cats with cucumbers? Put the cucumber down the cat sees it and it scares the piss out of him.

 

The theory is cats think they’re snakes and jump away. If the cats wrong he wasted his energy. If the cats right he avoided a potentially deadly bite.

 

Our country just jumped a good distance from something we weren’t sure about. Now, being people and not cats, we need to figure out whether that thing is a cucumber, a snake, or something in between.

 

A recent Stanford University study hypothesized that we’re radically underestimating the infection rate, by a factor of about 80. As of today, 681 people in Georgia have died from Covid and we’ve detected 18,157 cases. That’s a  3.7% kill rate, which is pretty bad, nothing like the flu.

 

If the Stanford study is correct, Georgia actually has approximately 1,452,000 cases with 681 dead. That’s about a .04% death rate, which is very similar to the flu’s death rate.

 

I’m beginning to think the lower number is the right one, but I’m not convinced yet so I’m still willing to jump away from that cylindrical green thing, but I’m starting to look at it a bit more closely before I jump.

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I don't know where the "jumping point" is at this point. I will state that a random sampling of 3,300+ people is an extremely small number of people, when the population of the US is 300,000,000+, to base such a bold assumption as in the Stanford study.

 

I'd like nothing more than for the Country to go about the normal, everyday business of living full, happy and productive lives.......but like life or as in any form of shooting, I'm going to make sure the gun isn't loaded before I look down the barrel. 

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I keep watching half the population continue to work with no effective distancing and wonder why they are not dropping like geese in a hailstorm.  Factories,  truck drivers,  delivery services,  people still in food service,  garbage collection service,  road crews, on and on.  

 

Last time Sawmill Mary was in Wally-World and although the did the customer quota and put up barriers and so on.  But nobody working there wore masks or gloves.  She came around an isle and one "associate" stepped up to another and was visiting.  She scolded them, "Society distance.  Count the tiles on the floor!".  Without missing a beat,  one went, "1,2,3,4,5,6",  pointing at the tiles around his feet.

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Posted (edited)

I have a LOT more faith in the people than the Gov't so when our club says we can hold matches we will asap. We did things in March to eliminate contact between us the best we could.

 

We tried to get the same people to read the stages, run the timer, keep score, reset targets, no spotting sticks (as much as I love them), and we did smaller posses. No hugs & handshakes either.......

 

People that wanted to be there were.......people that are elderly, or have elderly people in their lives, high risk friends or family, etc didn't come and we all understood that and wished them well. 

 

I guess I'm old fashion but I think we have a lot of bright folks that know what to do without being told by Uncle Sam. 

Edited by Cowboy Junky
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7 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

I don't know where the "jumping point" is at this point. I will state that a random sampling of 3,300+ people is an extremely small number of people, when the population of the US is 300,000,000+, to base such a bold assumption as in the Stanford study.

 

I'd like nothing more than for the Country to go about the normal, everyday business of living full, happy and productive lives.......but like life or as in any form of shooting, I'm going to make sure the gun isn't loaded before I look down the barrel. 

I think we’re in agreement on this!  


I took it seriously enough that I decided I better start improving my health back in late January early February. With mild high blood pressure, 15-20 extra pounds and seasonal asthma I felt I might be at risk.

 

I cut my drinking by more than half, dropped 5-6 lbs according to the scales, but probably more like 10 lbs since I know I’ve put on some muscle. Some lifting, calisthenics, and basketball and my BP is now running in the hundred and teens over 70s. Resting pulse in the 70s. I can do 20 strict pushups and a couple of pull-ups.

 

I’m not going to go looking for Covid, but if it finds me I’m not going to help it kill me by being in sorry shape with lots of co-morbidities.

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In attending matches, I will have my hand sanitizer, mask, wipes, etc on hand should I feel the need to use them.  In hosting matches, we will have hand sanitizer and wipes on each stage for everyone's use.  The shooter safety meeting will likely offer a cautionary reminder.  The vast majority of shooters are very safety minded and well aware of the dangers in transmitting the virus.  Those few that are less than respectful or cautious will likely be reminded by most of the others.  Pre-match announcements will likely include some of the same info.  One would hope that after at least 2 months of a steady diet of hearing about Corona Virus on a hundred different levels, we can understand the need for the health and safety or ourselves and others.  Personally, I want to put the virus behind and at the same time move forward with the knowledge learned from it.

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I don't see why it can't be done safely. As far as the TO being 6 feet away from the shooter, why would he have to be? The only reason to stay 6 feet away from someone is if they cough or sneeze on you. I doubt that's going to happen. We can be 6 feet away at the loading and unloading tables.

 

It all depends on the state and local rules, if there's no gatherings above 10 people we're screwed! Private property is different but there's not a whole lot of cowboy shoots on private property.

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48 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

I don't know where the "jumping point" is at this point. I will state that a random sampling of 3,300+ people is an extremely small number of people, when the population of the US is 300,000,000+, to base such a bold assumption as in the Stanford study.

 

I'd like nothing more than for the Country to go about the normal, everyday business of living full, happy and productive lives.......but like life or as in any form of shooting, I'm going to make sure the gun isn't loaded before I look down the barrel. 

 

I think perhaps our biggest problem now is that this whole thing has become political, which means we can't trust much of what we hear from the media, or the politicians. Even the numbers are suspect. Stalin said that what matters isn't the people who cast the votes, it's the people who count them.  Many of the people who are 'counting' for us have agendas. 

 

3 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I don't see why it can't be done safely. As far as the TO being 6 feet away from the shooter, why would he have to be? The only reason to stay 6 feet away from someone is if they cough or sneeze on you. I doubt that's going to happen. We can be 6 feet away at the loading and unloading tables.

 

It all depends on the state and local rules, if there's no gatherings above 10 people we're screwed! Private property is different but there's not a whole lot of cowboy shoots on private property.

The argument against your first statement is that Covid can be spread merely by breathing in air someone else just exhaled, and picking up the viral crap that way.  I'm not saying that's my position, but that's the theory. 

 

I'm not sure about that last statement either.  All of the matches I go to here in Georgia are on private property.  My favorite Alabama and South Carolina matches are also on private property.  I don't know that I've ever attended a match that was held on public property.

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Keeping the loading table down to one or two shooters might help in some cases, and keeping the line spaced out. As for timing, If the stage were written so as to start and stop at the same location, the Timer could be put on delay and left at the start/stop location to sound the starting beep, and to pickup the final shot. If the shooter were unable to hear the timer's beep, the T.O. could stand back at a safe distance and shoot the Shooter in the ass with a bean flip when the timer went off.  Naw... I'll just wait until it's safe, then go back to playing the game. 

 

Snakebite

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10 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

or use a bit more commons sense, and get on with our lives

Thank you!!! Yes, Yes, and Yes!!

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This thread got me to thinking, always a dangerous thing, so I scheduled an appointment for an antibody blood test tomorrow at 3 pm.  Who knows, perhaps I've already been exposed to this thing. 

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My concern is how many shooters won't return when matches resume.  After the last ammo/component shortage ended many shooters never returned.  The families with children who shot .22s left as did some who couldn't buy reloading supplies.  One club went from matches with two large posses to shooting with one medium sized posse.  Two smaller clubs in-state disappeared.  If matches are suspended most of this year I fear the sport will take another hit.  I recommend hold practice sessions if possible just to maintain interest.

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1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

 

I think perhaps our biggest problem now is that this whole thing has become political, which means we can't trust much of what we hear from the media, or the politicians. Even the numbers are suspect. Stalin said that what matters isn't the people who cast the votes, it's the people who count them.  Many of the people who are 'counting' for us have agendas. 

 

The argument against your first statement is that Covid can be spread merely by breathing in air someone else just exhaled, and picking up the viral crap that way.  I'm not saying that's my position, but that's the theory. 

 

I'm not sure about that last statement either.  All of the matches I go to here in Georgia are on private property.  My favorite Alabama and South Carolina matches are also on private property.  I don't know that I've ever attended a match that was held on public property.

I guess I didn't mean PUBLIC property I meant ranges that are on private property owned by a club not a cowboy club!  The parent clubs are responsible for following the rules laid down by their governors. I belong to a range and they've cancelled cowboy shoots for now. I can go out and shoot but they're subject to no large gatherings. We only have one out of 6 or 7 that is actually on someone's private property. 

 

As far as breathing in someone's air, I don't think that's the way you catch it or at least it's very minimal. 

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4 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I guess I didn't mean PUBLIC property I meant ranges that are on private property owned by a club not a cowboy club!  The parent clubs are responsible for following the rules laid down by their governors. I belong to a range and they've cancelled cowboy shoots for now. I can go out and shoot but they're subject to no large gatherings. We only have one out of 6 or 7 that is actually on someone's private property. 

 

As far as breathing in someone's air, I don't think that's the way you catch it or at least it's very minimal. 

I understand!  In that case, I'm in the same boat you are, all but one of the cowboy matches I go to are hosted by a parent range. 

 

I just read an article this morning saying that subways may have been the primary vector for contagion in NYC.  All those people packed in together, touching each other and breathing each other's air.   It makes sense to me, but your feeling the opposite makes my previous point, which is that it has become political and information sources are suspect. 

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9 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I understand!  In that case, I'm in the same boat you are, all but one of the cowboy matches I go to are hosted by a parent range. 

 

I just read an article this morning saying that subways may have been the primary vector for contagion in NYC.  All those people packed in together, touching each other and breathing each other's air.   It makes sense to me, but your feeling the opposite makes my previous point, which is that it has become political and information sources are suspect. 

+ 100000

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