evil dogooder Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 I just stumbled upon a deal for a pair of shooter original 73 winchesters. One in 38-40 one on 44-40. Which would you shoot? I plan to shoot both but is there an advantage to either? They are coming with a couple hundred brass for each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 Yes. The correct answer is both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Lizard Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 Which one can you get brass for??? If both, other cowboys can tell you more.... Texas Lizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake Slim Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 I shoot my 38WCF born in 1890. Usual full load of APP or BMZ. If the barrel is a little rough, you can get slightly oversize bullets from cowboybullets.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 Brass for both are widely available through Starline or a distributor for both. I took a long time rebuilding an old Marlin 1894 in 38WCF. Missouri Bullet Company made me a special run of 402 Hi-Tek bullets. Shoots good now. (10 shots 25 steps from rest) I really like the 38WCF. I'm afraid I'll run across a pair of pistols in that caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share Posted August 23, 2019 I was thinking of trying fcgf, or classic cowboy. I wasn't really planning on getting full guns but I went to see a guy about parts for originals and he had these. We worked out a deal. Now I can pull them apart and get measurements then have a ball shooting them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 Mine still has the factory springs and give a good workout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 55 minutes ago, evil dogooder said: I just stumbled upon a deal for a pair of shooter original 73 winchesters. One in 38-40 one on 44-40. Which would you shoot? I plan to shoot both but is there an advantage to either? They are coming with a couple hundred brass for each. There really isn't that much of an advantage over either caliber. 44-40 brass might be easier to come by, but it hasn't been an issue either way. Were it me, all things being equal, I'd keep the 38-40 and sell the 44-40. The latter seems to garner higher prices. If keeping both, I would use the 44-40 more just because I have more components and all of my other rifles are in 44-40, save for, oddly enough, and original Winchester made in 1887 in 38-40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 I can't say anything about the 44-40, but I've got a few 38-40s. When I first started thinking about going the BP route I read up on it a bit. Most said that the 38-40 sealed better and, therefore, was easier to clean. Since I lean towards being lazy I opted for the 38-40. BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 51 minutes ago, Barry Sloe said: I can't say anything about the 44-40, but I've got a few 38-40s. When I first started thinking about going the BP route I read up on it a bit. Most said that the 38-40 sealed better and, therefore, was easier to clean. Since I lean towards being lazy I opted for the 38-40. BS I've heard that too, but if true, then the "better" is simply overkill. All of my 44-40's seal the chamber to the point that I don't even need to touch the action. Just clean the bore and I am good to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 If there is one advantage of the 44WCF over the 38WCF it's that the 44WCF has a longer neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 I have two 38-40s. One with a round Barrel the other one has a octagon Barrel . One takes 401 Bullets the other one takes 403. I guess what I am saying , Slug the Barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 28 minutes ago, Bailey Creek,5759 said: I have two 38-40s. One with a round Barrel the other one has a octagon Barrel . One takes 401 Bullets the other one takes 403. I guess what I am saying , Slug the Barrel. What happens if you shoot 401 bullets in the gun that likes 403? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Howdy I have more experience with 44-40 than 38-40, so that would be my choice. I do have an original 1873 Winchester chambered for 38-40 as well as a couple of Bisley Colts also chambered for 38-40. One thing I learned when I loaded up my first BP 38-40 rounds was not to put in quite as much powder as I did with 44-40. The old logic was they would both take 40 grains of powder. Of course with modern solid head brass the interior capacity is a little bit less. Modern 38-40 brass has slightly less powder capacity than modern 44-40 brass. What I found when I loaded up 38-40 with the same amount of powder as 44-40 was the soft lead bullets were squashing slightly when I seated them on the powder. This caused them to swell up slightly so they would not chamber in the '73. I cut back slightly on the BP charge, while still compressing the powder slightly, and everything was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 One of the positives in the last recession was that the price of shooter-grade old guns dropped. I bought three original 73s in .38 WCF and one un .32 WCF. I shot all four some, and three in SASS matches. I sold the .38 WCF guns and kept the .32. I like that the .32 has more steel (third gen, mostly steel gun) and a fraction of the powder charge of the .38 cartridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 I like the 38-40, it has been called the 357 Mag of it's day, but for playing this game my choice would be the 44-40 between the two. JMHO Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 18 hours ago, evil dogooder said: I just stumbled upon a deal for a pair of shooter original 73 winchesters. One in 38-40 one on 44-40. Which would you shoot? I plan to shoot both but is there an advantage to either? They are coming with a couple hundred brass for each. In a game where the targets are typically 25 feet in front of the shooter, neither is better over the other...shoot both Guys will grind their teeth with envy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Sell me the .38-40 and buy lots of components for the .44-40-very simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Sell me the 44-40 and J. Mark the 38-40 and go buy ya a MarlinCB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 38/40 = recoil management. I believe this is a sleeper round in our game. It has been said that it hits harder and shoots flatter. Had some pictures shooting 155 bullets and muzzle rise was less than some of the 38 loads used by my son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 It will be easier to find 44-40 pistols to go along with the rifle, but other than that, both will work fine for SASS. I would take the 44-40 myself, as i am all geared up for that caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 If you shoot 401 Bullets in a 403 barrel the Bullets will Key Hole. If I remember rite the 38-40 has the same energy as a 10 mm pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Why so slow of a twist rate for these old calibers. The original Winchester and Marlin had a twist of 1 in 38 and 1 in 36. I had a liner installed in my Marlin 1894 38WCF that has a twist 1-18. Seems to shoot well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Bailey Creek,5759 said: If you shoot 401 Bullets in a 403 barrel the Bullets will Key Hole. If I remember rite the 38-40 has the same energy as a 10 mm pistol. If the .401 bullets are soft, and perhaps with a hollow base, and you shoot BP, the bullet will probably "slug up" to fit the rifling. Not so critical if the groove diameter of the barrel is .403 and you use that diameter bullets and especially with smokeless powders. In point of fact, the .38-40 is about ballistically equivalent of the .40 S&W with 180 gr. bullets. I have seen original Winchester '73's with groove diameters running anywhere from .427 to .434"! Slug the barrel of any of them. I prefer the .44-40, but the difference is really small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Yup. Soft bullets have no problem slugging up in the barrel. At last count I think I own five rifles chambered for 44-40. I have slugged them all, and they all have groove diameters of either .427 or .429. I have standardized on .428 for all my 44-40 loads, so I don't have to tailor the ammo to the rifle. Have not experienced any key holing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 I am a big fan of the 44wcf. I have been shooting it since 1976. Started out with a Marlin saddle ring carbine that has been in the family for years. Read in some of the magazines years ago . That the biggest complaint about the 44 wcf . That it would recache off a cream pie. Have shot it in a plowed field once watched the Bullet skip 4 times . I have 5 Rifles in 44WCF and 8 Pistols . But to be fair have seen 5.56 tracers go every which way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 I've got one 44 WCF '60 Henry rifle and one 38 WCF '73 short rifle, one 38 WCF '73 carbine, one 38 WCF '66 carbine, and three pair 38 WCF revolvers. Guess that tells you which I would be shooting. Use 180 grain in the rifles and 140 grain in the revolvers. You should buy both. Scout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 The 44-40 had three rounds in the trap door but it's in rougher shape The 38-40 just feels better to me and runs smoother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 The 44-40 was made in 1892 The 38-40 was made in 1898 Now I have to decide on which to keep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 BOTH BOTH BOTH....KEEP BOTH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Savvy Jack said: BOTH BOTH BOTH....KEEP BOTH! I wish I could but it's not in the cards. Little ones need guns of their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Dibs/first refusal on the 44-40! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 38WCF is my choice. I run an original born in 1892 and a Chaparral. Both are sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 I remember an article in Guns and Ammo many, many years ago about the 38-40, and much of the article compared it to the 44-40. The basic points of the article were as follows... The 30-40 uses a .40 caliber bullet. Why it was ever called a .38 is unknown. Performance wise, when comparing the two cartridges, no appreciable difference could be noticed. The 38 had no greater velocity than the 44, had the same effective range, penetrated the same number of pine boards, which was an old time measure of performance back in the day, fired the same weight of bullets, had identical accuracy, and so on and so forth. In other words, the article asked why the cartridge was ever created in the first place. That being said, get, keep and shoot both. I shoot the 44 round myself, but that's only because that's what I found in the used gun shop. If I'd found 38's when I was starting the game I would have bought them. And to this day, I am still kicking myself for not buying that Fourteen Inch Barreled one in .38-40 soon after the ATF said they were no longer SBR's for Twelve Hundred Bucks at a local gunshow. Why did I pass on it? I didn't want to tool up for another caliber. Stupid... Stupid... Stupid.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 9 hours ago, Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 said: Dibs/first refusal on the 44-40! Im leaning more toward the 38-40. Sent you a pm on the 44-40 and its condition. If your interested I can email or text you pics if not im bringing it to gunsmoke this weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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