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Howdy ; Who is using Winchester M-12s for WB ?

And are you cutting the barrel Down and to what length ???

I picked up one and was thinking of maybe trying a WB match ,,,,, Or just selling it ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Real popular for WB, just  have to be sure you decock before loading.   Havn"t made the jump yet cause have too many 97 and only pick up 2 or 3 WB per year.      GW

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i run a 1950 model 12. 3" chamber, solid rib barrel, nice and heavy, soaks up recoil well. way smoother than my 97 (might be selling the 97 so keep an eye out)...

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I love my M12's. I like 20-22" barrel length.  The flagged carrier version is preferred,  but the un-flagged carrier works fine, but may require tuning to keep the shells in the port while running it fast.

 

If WB is an occasional thing and you have a 97' you may consider sticking with it.

 

Tully

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I picked up a nice model 12 that had a polychoke on it. After cutting it off the barrel was 24". I shot one Wild Bunch match with it. They are fast and smooth but I prefer the 97. 

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I use model 12's for wild bunch. I have 3 so far...2 are cut to about 20 inches. The third one is a work in progress. It will be turned into a trench gun and parkerized.

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Old Man Graybeard.  Not to cause you a problem but IF you make a non-trench model 12 into a trench model by cutting the barrel, adding a heat shield, etc. it is NOT LEGAL for Wild Bunch. Trench guns must be original as provided by the manufacturer. They can be repaired but must be originally issued in that form.  Making one is not an "allowable external modification".

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My M12 is a 1946 model a 30” barrel w/a full choke.  I put in the 6 round follower and magazine tube spring.  The 30” barrel makes it soo easy to point and shoot.  I have no plans to cut it shorter.  But I also have 3 97’s w/20” barrels.

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Started WB with a 97 and now use a mod 12.   I think the model 12 is the finest pump shotgun made.   I never use the 97 unless the stage calles for a reload on the move.  Bullett 19707

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I have two model 12s. Only use them for Wild Bunch. They're just easier to find than the 97s and generally much less money in my experience. Very reliable as well.

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24” and won’t go back to a 97. I have a new and improved firing pin coming out for 12s, soon.

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Thanks Pards ;

Keep it coming ....

I have never shot WB ,,,, but I have the guns to do so, I just might do it ....

I was thinking of cutting it at 24 inches and keeping it or selling it after I use it to at least shoot a Match ....

I have a strong dislike for the 97 as it has a habit of removing the skin from the top of my thumb ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Hi Jabez:

If you are thinking of disposing of a '97, please let me know.

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Just picked up a model 12 last week, can't wait to shoot it . Has a 30" barrel right now I'm going to cut it to 24" as soon as I can find a Smith that can put a bead on it.

Rafe

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The M12 is smooth and fast. They are relatively problem free. The only issue that comes up is broken firing pins and Boggus Deal has solved that. I cut mine to 21" for two reasons. In WB there will be stages you move with the shotgun. The long barrels hang up on the props. And you need to get rid of the choke for flyers.

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1 hour ago, Rafe Conager SASS #56958 said:

Just picked up a model 12 last week, can't wait to shoot it . Has a 30" barrel right now I'm going to cut it to 24" as soon as I can find a Smith that can put a bead on it.

Rafe

 

Goat Neck Clem works wonders for M12s.

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Rafe,  I'm sure Johnny Meadows just up the road from you can cut and install a bead for you.

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JM has announced he is out of gunsmithing business, so another gunsmith of ANYTHING LIKE GOOD  quality, even a general gunsmith, can cut a non-ribbed barrel and attach a large bead sight.  Find one near you.

 

Good luck, GJ

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18 hours ago, Boomstick Bruce said:

i run a 1950 model 12. 3" chamber, solid rib barrel, nice and heavy, soaks up recoil well. way smoother than my 97 (might be selling the 97 so keep an eye out)...

Bruce,

You lucked out. The 3" chamber came on their "duck guns." I had one and encountered others that didn't like the shorter shells. At the speed we run them they throw the shorter shells out the port. And then I know shooters who have no problem with them. That's why I recommend that if you can't try it first avoid the M12's with a 3" chamber.  It's not the chamber, they have a different carrier.

JFN

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18 hours ago, Tully Mars said:

I love my M12's. I like 20-22" barrel length.  The flagged carrier version is preferred,  but the un-flagged carrier works fine, but may require tuning to keep the shells in the port while running it fast.

 

If WB is an occasional thing and you have a 97' you may consider sticking with it.

 

Tully

How can you tell a flagged from non flagged carrier? What you describe "keeping the shells in the port while running it fast" may be what I am experiencing with my model 12. What tuning is required to fix this?

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I shoot a Model 12 for WB and really enjoy it! Mine was made in 1954. The stock has been cut to fit my length of pull with a nice recoil pad added. The barrel was originally 30", about 26" when we bought it, and finally cut down to 18 1/4" for me.

 

Funny enough, given all the firearms I own, my Model 12 & Kimber 1911 originally bought specifically for me to do WB are among the first pieces I would stash in a ride-or-die-apocalypse-bag. :D

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2 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

JM has announced he is out of gunsmithing business, so another gunsmith of ANYTHING LIKE GOOD  quality, even a general gunsmith, can cut a non-ribbed barrel and attach a large bead sight.  Find one near you.

 

Good luck, GJ

WHAT? When did that happen?

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Announcement was made on here about 2 months ago....

GJ

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7 hours ago, Joe Burr, SASS#12614 said:

How can you tell a flagged from non flagged carrier? What you describe "keeping the shells in the port while running it fast" may be what I am experiencing with my model 12. What tuning is required to fix this?

I have dear friends that swear by the flag. I have had no luck with a flag. The flag is a stamped piece that is riveted to the right side of the carrier and resembles the flag in a ‘97. As you push the slide handle forward, it comes up into the ejection port. 

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Top photo is a carrier with a flag. Middle one is w/o a flag and the bottom one is a carrier installed with a flag.

They help some and some don't need them. I was loosing rounds out the port so I installed them.

Whatever you do, don't ever, ever, ever polish the carrier. They came rough from Winchester for a reason.

JFN

 

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10 hours ago, Joe Burr, SASS#12614 said:

How can you tell a flagged from non flagged carrier? What you describe "keeping the shells in the port while running it fast" may be what I am experiencing with my model 12. What tuning is required to fix this?

Joe Burr,

Looks like Boggus and JFN beat me to it. As Boggus stated it's personal preference. I have a M12 with a flag and one without. The flag is similar to the 97', I feel it helps keep the round in the chamber/port as the gun is cycled fast. Sorry for the delayed response. 

Tully

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11 hours ago, J. Frank Norfleet said:

Bruce,

You lucked out. The 3" chamber came on their "duck guns." I had one and encountered others that didn't like the shorter shells. At the speed we run them they throw the shorter shells out the port. And then I know shooters who have no problem with them. That's why I recommend that if you can't try it first avoid the M12's with a 3" chamber.  It's not the chamber, they have a different carrier.

JFN

 

i'm not entirely sure mine was originally a 3" gun. it has a flagged carrier which i have been told two different things about, one i was told all 12's got the flagged carrier after some certain year (i dont remember but i think it was in the 40's), and ive been told the 3" guns never had a flagged carrier... i dont know which is true, i do know there is no ser# on my barrel unlike the other three 12's i have had in the past (bought to resell and had no intentions of keeping) none of which were 3" guns...

 

mine had one of those lyman polychokes on it and the frame has been tapped for a scope rail which i also removed and put filler screws in. its a clean gun that showed no signs of ever being fired before i got it and two others at an estate auction for $175 total for all 3 just right before christmas!!!

 

im still contemplating selling my 97... since i run a double for CAS and a model 12 for WB, why do i own a 97??? as a back up to the 12??? thats like having a back up for an AK47... i also have 2 doubles, one bakail the other a stevens (again, why do i have a back up for a bakail???)

 

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50 minutes ago, Boomstick Bruce said:

 

i'm not entirely sure mine was originally a 3" gun. it has a flagged carrier which i have been told two different things about, one i was told all 12's got the flagged carrier after some certain year (i dont remember but i think it was in the 40's), and ive been told the 3" guns never had a flagged carrier... i dont know which is true, i do know there is no ser# on my barrel unlike the other three 12's i have had in the past (bought to resell and had no intentions of keeping) none of which were 3" guns...

 

mine had one of those lyman polychokes on it and the frame has been tapped for a scope rail which i also removed and put filler screws in. its a clean gun that showed no signs of ever being fired before i got it and two others at an estate auction for $175 total for all 3 just right before christmas!!!

 

im still contemplating selling my 97... since i run a double for CAS and a model 12 for WB, why do i own a 97??? as a back up to the 12??? thats like having a back up for an AK47... i also have 2 doubles, one bakail the other a stevens (again, why do i have a back up for a bakail???)

 

Flags are not a determination of a 3" Duck Gun. There are other ways to determine a true Duck Gun. Bolt configuration and ejection port length can help.

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3 hours ago, J. Frank Norfleet said:

Top photo is a carrier with a flag. Middle one is w/o a flag and the bottom one is a carrier installed with a flag.

They help some and some don't need them. I was loosing rounds out the port so I installed them.

Whatever you do, don't ever, ever, ever polish the carrier. They came rough from Winchester for a reason.

JFN

 

397585613_withguide.png.3f66b23ac1afbb3156867fb549709a7b.png578058266_WOguide.png.50a82a6805dd03962ba753a8723b1bd2.png1846009698_wguide.png.fbf603c2b1cb79dd9cad84a7eb9086aa.png

 

Thanks! I've read about this prior but your pics make sense of it. My Model 12 doesn't have the flag. I spent a few hours over the last couple of days disassembling and giving it a detailed cleaning. After putting it all together I ran fired shells out of the chamber and dummy rounds from the magazine; it seems to be running a lot better now, I didn't experience and feeding or ejecting issues. I'll take it out to the range this week and see if it stays that way.

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54 minutes ago, Joe Burr, SASS#12614 said:

 

Thanks! I've read about this prior but your pics make sense of it. My Model 12 doesn't have the flag. I spent a few hours over the last couple of days disassembling and giving it a detailed cleaning. After putting it all together I ran fired shells out of the chamber and dummy rounds from the magazine; it seems to be running a lot better now, I didn't experience and feeding or ejecting issues. I'll take it out to the range this week and see if it stays that way.

I can tell you, empties and dummies are nothing like live fire.

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I have a M12 for WB because I refuse to own a 97!  I have seen too many of them fail at the worst possible moment.

 

Mine is one I found on Gun Broker for a surprisingly good price.  It was made in 1927 & had a 28" barrel originally.  The bluing has all turned brown, which gives it a really good look.  The only thing wrong with it was a crack in the stock, through the pistol grip.  Fixed that with some Elmer's carpenter's glue.  I cut the barrel to 20", crowned it & put a new bead on it myself.  It shoots like a champ if you run it like you stole it.  If you baby it, it spits out the occasional live round.

 

Holler

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I just got one. Barrel length is 26 in. Didn't cut it because i don't know the game yet. just getting into wild bunch.

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To cut or not to cut

Fat.png

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