The Bearded Wonder Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 In another thread there was a debate on the real deal or subs, so.... My favorite to shoot is the real deal. However I still load bp subs to, mainly because I can use plain smokeless lubed bullets. I load 45colt with goex fffg and a 250gr rnfp, also load some with APP fffg. 38s I load with 777 only 44 cap gun only eat Goex fffg topped with homemade lube/ mixture of beeswax lanolin and Crisco So with all that said I prefer the real deal, however I believe that it comes down to personal preference and availability of powder. Whats your preference? If a little bit of both what do you feed your guns? Happy Trails, and keep your powder dry. The Bearded Wonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 The real thing and only the real thing for me. It's very possible to use smokeless lubed bullets by the way. I have used APP, Pyrodex, and 777; they just are NOT the same. I also don't give a hoot if a competitor is using a sub against me as long as they meet SASS smoke guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Shotgun - BP Pistol & Rifle - Pinnacle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick Bruce Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I have 13 58's, 2 walkers, 2 naa super companions, a cobray sxs 44 c&b Derringer, and a pair of 1860's... I feed them all 3f 777... Cleaner, less corrosive, more efficient... Oh and the boom of my Walker going off with 60 gn of trip 7 is IMPRESSIVE!!!! (Especially when it chain fires lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, Boomstick Bruce said: I have 13 58's, 2 walkers, 2 naa super companions, a cobray sxs 44 c&b Derringer, and a pair of 1860's... I feed them all 3f 777... Cleaner, less corrosive, more efficient... Oh and the boom of my Walker going off with 60 gn of trip 7 is IMPRESSIVE!!!! (Especially when it chain fires lol) 13!!!? I don't feel bad about having more than 3 87's anymore, LOL. I'd be careful feeding the Open Tops 777, it's a bit hotter than BP and the other subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Coles SASS 1188 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 As stated on the other post, I shoot BP and don’t shoot subs. I tried pyrodex but dont like the hard fouling it leaves. I shoot up pyrodex in shotgun shells as the wad from subsequent shots does a fair job of scraping it out. I have not tried any of the other subs. I also load and shoot a lot of smokeless. In fact, i shoot that most of the time. But when BP is called for, only the sacred black will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 BP in my pistols and SG. 777 in my rifle. Shot smokeless for 13+ years and now BP for 1.5 years. Listened to folks that have an open mind and are up on current methodologies and have had years of success in competing in FC categories in deciding what to use. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Flames. Subs are fun. BP is funner. I've been strictly BP for a while now (when I shoot BP, which is somewhat less lately) but it was a journey. The pistols were always BP, using smokeless bullets and lube squirted over the first two loaded rounds. That's still the way I do it - it's just too easy. Shotgun always BP because, why not. But rifle really needs lube, so I shot Clearshot, then Cleanshot in rifle for a long time. But I finally got an old beatup Lyman lubricizer to relube the smokeless bullets, and with barrels no longer than 20" those hold enough lube for my needs. Melting out the crayon lube and adding BP lube takes a little time, but it is worth it for me. Flames. For pards that are into competition more than the style aspect, the subs make sense and fill the requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick Bruce Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 It's not that I don't like real black, I've just never had any. Pyrodex P is what I started with, I switched to RS because it was on sale, then back to P then to trip 7... I had a can of Jim shockeys once but gave it to a fellow shooter and never used any of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Started with 777. Liked it. Went to APP. Really liked it. Now BP. Love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titus A. Gnatsass, SASS #71705 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Yusta B. said: Shotgun - BP Pistol & Rifle - Pinnacle I always thought you were kinda weird! You know I'm kiddin' ya' pard. I do just the opposite of you. Shotgun - Pinnacle. Pistol and Rifle - Real BP (Grafs Reenactor) And as I've posted here before, I have been shooting this way for eight years now. Never once have I used a black powder lubed bullet. Either a standard smokeless lubed bullet or moly coated from Bear Creek. Everywhere from below freezing temps to hot and humid to dry and arid. Never a problem doing 5-6 stages a day. Pistols, hardly ever have to touch them. Might pull the cylinders out and do a quick wipe with a damp cloth, but that's a rare thing. Rifle, I pull a damp bore snake thru at the unloading table after each stage. Quick shot of Ballistol in the muzzle once it's back vertical in the guncart so it runs down the bore keeps any remaining fouling soft. On the rare occasion that things start getting sticky, a quick shot of Ballistol on the carrier and all is good again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Titus A. Gnatsass, SASS #71705 said: .... Shotgun - Pinnacle. Pistol and Rifle - Real BP ... Titus, I'm curious, since you're using BP, why not in Shotgun too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titus A. Gnatsass, SASS #71705 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: Titus, I'm curious, since you're using BP, why not in Shotgun too? I bought several cases of it (Pinnacle) back when it was discontinued...it was cheap. I tried it in pistol and rifle and liked real BP better. The Pinnacle works just fine in the SG so I'm just using it up. I also recently bought a case of Black MZ to try. Not fond of it in rifle or pistol either. Will use it in the SG when the Pinnacle is gone. I've loaded real BP in the SG, like it fine, just using up the subs in the SG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, Titus A. Gnatsass, SASS #71705 said: I always thought you were kinda weird! You know I'm kiddin' ya' pard. I do just the opposite of you. Shotgun - Pinnacle. Pistol and Rifle - Real BP (Grafs Reenactor) Well - you're faster than me so maybe I otta try it your way !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Gotta tell ya, Titus is pretty durn fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titus A. Gnatsass, SASS #71705 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Some days faster than others! We're currently in Casa Grande, AZ, shooting the Gathering of the Posses. Didn't have such a "fast" day today. Not the worst I've ever shot, but not the best either! But I still had a huge smile on my face as I was cleaning my guns after all the smoke cleared! Maybe tomorrow I'll fare a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Real black for long range Real black for cap & ball Anything, real or sub, 1F to 3F in shotgun At $7.59 - $9.49 per pound, depending on discounts, I use a LOT of Alliant Black MZ in main match cartridges & shotshells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I like APP because I can use same bullets I use for smokeless and I buy in bulk when APP runs a special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Bob Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I shoot mostly APP. Once in a while I will load my shotgun shells with Goex 2f with a wad of steel wool under the wad & on top of the powder. Kinda like sparklers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bearded Wonder Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said: Real black for long range Real black for cap & ball Anything, real or sub, 1F to 3F in shotgun At $7.59 - $9.49 per pound, depending on discounts, I use a LOT of Alliant Black MZ in main match cartridges & shotshells. I just got a couple pounds of the Black MZ from a a fellow shooter but I haven't loaded any yet, looking foward to trying some out because it is so cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Get ahold of one of Sportsman's Warehouse $10 off $50, or $30 off $150 purchase coupons, then show your VA card, and sometimes they'll give you both of 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 29 minutes ago, Dantankerous said: Started with 777. Liked it. Went to APP. Really liked it. Now BP. Love it! Yup. Started with 777. Liked it. Tried APP. Liked it except I got more dust on my progressive press than with 777. Been using BP for some time. Love it! BP produces a little less smoke than 777 and most important, flame, sparks, boom and smell. Now that's purely subjective, but I do get a lot of positive comments from shooters on that effect, especially when shooting my .44-40 Uberti Henry and .44 C&B Piettas. And depending on where you buy, BP is less expensive than subs.* Still, there are times when my BP lubed bullet or ball supply runs low, but subs allow me to shoot my categories anyway. * Warden and JB Binks, I've not shopped for Alliant MZ only because I have enough 777 and APP on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Curly SASS#57086 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I have tried Alliant Black-MZ in my 72 Open tops with no problem but after two stages the cylinder will hardly turn in my Remington Outlaw with the same load. Anyone else have this problem? I prefer real black but thought I would at least try the Black M-Z and see how it works. I have not tried it in my C&B guns yet so do not know how they react to the M-Z. At $10.00 a pound I had to try it in my cartridge guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 24 minutes ago, Diamond Curly SASS#57086 said: I have tried Alliant Black-MZ in my 72 Open tops with no problem but after two stages the cylinder will hardly turn in my Remington Outlaw with the same load. Anyone else have this problem? I prefer real black but thought I would at least try the Black M-Z and see how it works. I have not tried it in my C&B guns yet so do not know how they react to the M-Z. At $10.00 a pound I had to try it in my cartridge guns. Got nothing to do with brand of powder. The Colt design has a bushing on the front of the cylinder that the Remmie doesn't. That does a much better job of keeping fouling off the arbor/cylinder pin. Lay your pistols side by side to see the difference. Remmie 1858 C&Bs have the same setup as the Outlaw and are more prone to fouling with BP/subs than 1851/1860 Colts. Wipe the face of your Remmie cylinders with a damp cloth after each stage and that will improve things. Not a bad idea for the Open Tops either. Since the Remmie cylinders are somewhat simpler to remove than Colts, you can wipe down the both cylinder face and pin in no time. Makes for smooth running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Curly SASS#57086 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: Got nothing to do with brand of powder. The Colt design has a bushing on the front of the cylinder that the Remmie doesn't. That does a much better job of keeping fouling off the arbor/cylinder pin. Lay your pistols side by side to see the difference. Remmie 1858 C&Bs have the same setup as the Outlaw and are more prone to fouling with BP/subs than 1851/1860 Colts. Wipe the face of your Remmie cylinders with a damp cloth after each stage and that will improve things. Not a bad idea for the Open Tops either. Since the Remmie cylinders are somewhat simpler to remove than Colts, you can wipe down the both cylinder face and pin in no time. Makes for smooth running. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blarney Kid Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I use Black MZ for my cartridge loads and my C&B pistols. I can shoot six stages without wiping my pistols down and just once with my rifle, primarily because it's a 45 Colt. Right now I'm using Pyrodex in my shotgun because I got a few pounds from a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Only that good ole German charcoal Flames and sweet smell.....Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I use only Real Black Powder ,,, No subs for me ... I use mostly Goex 3F in compressed loads for Rifle and Pistols... The same Powder in Shotgun Shells ,,,,, But from what I see on the Wire ,,,,, I'm using a fair bit more in my Sweet 16 than most load in their 12s...... Smoke , Boom and Fire ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Why is it that folks keep trying to divide us into little groups??? Well if ya ain't using this.. or you shooting that, etc, than you ain't this or that. Geeze... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I suspect folks want to divide us into little groups so it's easier to win a participation trophy buckle. Same reason some folks decide to shoot a BP sub in a BP category. The sub gives them a little advantage and makes it easier to get that coveted participation trophy buckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bearded Wonder Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said: participation trophy I always win! My score is almost always higher that everyone else, I just dont understand why they always put it at the bottom of the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I used to use Goex Bp. Its a great powder BUT ! You have to use special lube , Thats really the only pain in the A$$ about it . I switched to using APP . Now I can use any bullet I want . It is claimed you dont need any lube at all . But I use regular lubed bullets , Because then you only need One bullet for everything . PS. The Only down side to APP. NO Flames ! And Clean up is the same ether way . Rooster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 <rant> I REALLY wish folks would stop stating that regular smokeless bullets CAN'T be used with real BP, because that is doing a real disservice to anyone that is interested in making a lot of boom, FLAME, and smoke! Does one need to wipe their guns and bores occasionally with regular bullets: yes. Does it make it easier to use bullets with BP lube: yes </rant> Back to our regularly scheduled spreading of misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 After years of using Cowboy Goex (38 special and 12 gauge), I switched to Trip 7-2F. The change was mostly because the 145 Gr bullet that seemed to be such a match for powder became hard to obtain. I still have plenty of CG, and tried it with other bullets, however T7-2F continues to suit me better than options tried with CG & other bullets.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Bob Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 I shoot Grafs in my pistols and rifles and Pyrodex in my shotgun (I buy my pyrodex every year at walmart after deer season on clearance). I have shot APP and still do on occasions when I need to cast bullets and all I have left are my coated bullets it is fine just no sparks and flames. I do know that some people don't like to run Holy black through their powder measures and that's why they use subs. But its always fun to shoot Frontier cartridge no matter what powder you're using and the more Darksiders there are the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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