Help new shooters, don't hinder them!!

[McCandless]

There are prospective shooters out there who are on a tight budget, but are willing to plunk down the dollars to get the 2 pistols, rifle, shotgun, leather, ammo, cart and clothes.  More power to them, and welcome!!

But, they have to be very judicious with their funds, sometimes buying the bare minimum to get started... they have young families, lots of obligations and not a lot of "fun" money.

On my web page, and others, I see a lot of questions regarding the Rossi '92 and the Henry Big Boy.  Yeah, I know all the opinions about both.

But, instead of folks tossing out cost effective options, the vast majority of responses run to, "get a Uberti '73, slicked up and modified by a good cowboy gunsmith, buy once, you won't regret it!"

You do all know the cost of a new '73, plus the work of a good gunsmith, plus all the innards goodies, right?  That's probably more than half his budget, right there.

 

Why scare away prospective shooters by telling them they "have to" get the top o' the line equipment to start?

Why not direct them to where they can find deals or better prices on items.  For instance, I cruise gun shops.  I found an older Marlin '94, wood was a little beat, but functions perfectly, $300.

Also, picked up a Uberti '66 with a Lassiter short-stroke for $800.   I sold an older Uberti '73 set up by C&I for $900.  Don't tell me nobody has gotten a deal on a gun before!?

 

Be of practical help to a new shooter on a tight budget!  There are options out there that don't throw them into the $1600-1700 range just for one starter gun.  Stop running them off.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I bought an older Uberti 66 with a ss kit from a pard for $600.00!!!! Deals are out there!

[Possum Stu]

23 minutes ago, McCandless said:

There are prospective shooters out there who are on a tight budget, but are willing to plunk down the dollars to get the 2 pistols, rifle, shotgun, leather, ammo, cart and clothes.  More power to them, and welcome!!

But, they have to be very judicious with their funds, sometimes buying the bare minimum to get started... they have young families, lots of obligations and not a lot of "fun" money.

On my web page, and others, I see a lot of questions regarding the Rossi '92 and the Henry Big Boy.  Yeah, I know all the opinions about both.

But, instead of folks tossing out cost effective options, the vast majority of responses run to, "get a Uberti '73, slicked up and modified by a good cowboy gunsmith, buy once, you won't regret it!"

You do all know the cost of a new '73, plus the work of a good gunsmith, plus all the innards goodies, right?  That's probably more than half his budget, right there.

 

Why scare away prospective shooters by telling them they "have to" get the top o' the line equipment to start?

Why not direct them to where they can find deals or better prices on items.  For instance, I cruise gun shops.  I found an older Marlin '94, wood was a little beat, but functions perfectly, $300.

Also, picked up a Uberti '66 with a Lassiter short-stroke for $800.   I sold an older Uberti '73 set up by C&I for $900.  Don't tell me nobody has gotten a deal on a gun before!?

 

Be of practical help to a new shooter on a tight budget!  There are options out there that don't throw them into the $1600-1700 range just for one starter gun.  Stop running them off.

 

 

Couldn't agree more with this. Well said. 

[Sheriff Langston]

Veteran shooters often evolve into their favorite weapons in order to arrive at the "perfect" pistol/rifle/shotgun combination.  It takes time and above all money.  My guess is we may all have SASS guns hanging around that are relegated to the back of the safe.   Backups to the backups?  

 

What if each club had an inventory on their respective web sites that would represent what was available locally for new folks to try before you buy?  I know folks  sometimes don't want their inventory published (understandably) however the list could be anonymous with the webmaster only knowing the owner.

 

I agree that the cost of this sport is a significant hurdle specifically at the outset.  Anything we can do to mitigate that should be worthwhile.

 

Sheriff Langston.

[Three Foot Johnson]

About 8 years ago, I found a Marlin 1894c .357 mag carbine in a pawn shop for $249. It had some rust on one side from laying on the floor under a bed or somesuch, but works perfectly. If I got it for $249, what did they pay? $150?

 

Four years ago, I found a NIB Rossi '92 .44 mag carbine on the closeout page of Chestnut Ridge Supply for $397, shipped.

In the last few years, I've found a .357 Rossi '92 carbine and a .44-40 carbine for $300 each. Both looked almost new.

 

The matte finished Uberti Hombres can often be found on sale for $350 or less.

 

Shotguns... well, we'd all like to have an SKB maybe, but Stevens 311's and similar can be easily be found for $250 or less, and an SKB or BSS ain't going to improve my times enough to make a whit of difference. I've purchased decent used single shot H&R/NEF's for $50, and even new, they're not much over $150 - one of 'em, acquired locally, was only $39.51 cuz it was 20g, had a mismatched matte nickel or hard chromed barrel, and the butt stock had been cut.

I still use one ever' now and again, just to see if I can reload fast enough to get the aerial target before it hits the ground.

 

If you have time to peruse the Web and shop around a bit, there are deals to be had.

[McCandless]

1 minute ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

 

Shotguns... well, we'd all like to have an SKB maybe, but Stevens 311's and similar can be easily found found for $250 or less...

Aaah, brings back memories.  I started with an inexpensive, blonde wood, Stevens 311, had the barrels shortened to 20", and did "the $7 fix", smoothed the chambers and that got me started.  I used it for several years while I learned and decided if this game was for me.  Was actually a pretty good gun.  After I moved on to a Winchester M24, (still have that in the safe), I sold the 311 at a bargain to a new shooter.   I hope it's still around and being used.

[Sedalia Dave]

Same here started with a 311 and a Rossi 92.  Bought the wife a 311 and 92 when she started.  Lucked into a deal on a Marlin and a Baikal for her so I sold her 311.  My 311 wants to unlock and not let the second barrel fire if shot with anything more than light BP loads. Need to fix it and sell it to a new shooter on a budget but never seem to have the time.

 

At one time I had four R92s. In the last year I sold my first super slick R92 to my stepson, One is used exclusively for NCOWS because it has a 24 in octagon barrel and is sighted in for 50 yards., Two are stainless and I have set them up for SASS. One I use as my main match rifle and the other is a spare in case either of our other rifles give us fits.  

    

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Slater (fellow shooter) and I are faced with the NEW PROSPECT at this moment.   We go to church with someone who is interested in CAS and may join SASS.

 

We have taken him to a local match and talked with him about gun choices.

 

Right now, he's still in 'Sticker Shock', even with some of the 'minimal' purchases.

 

He likes the idea of getting a new rifle for a few hundred and a brace of pistols for less than a thousand.   The eyes start to squench when we tell him a minimum of 300-400 for a SG.

 

Then the killer is when we mention holsters, boots and of course..... AMMO.

 

McCandless:   No doubt its costly and your suggestion is a very good and very tactful way in which we can hopefully gain new members.    There will be some folks who fork out the bucks and get some pristine equipment immediately.   And there or some who will shy away once the total figures get into the 4 digit realm.

 

..........Widder

 

 

[Tombstone Tex]

I have to be honest, I too started with a rossi 92, and my pistols were uberti's and I am still currently running the TTN shotgun. Currently need a replacement part for that, but otherwise those guns got me into the game and I upgraded moving forward.

 

I have upgraded to Colts for pistols and a new Winchester 72 in 44-40, I love them and wouldn't go back at this point. Maybe every now and again I will use them at the range, but for full competition purposes, not much. 

 

As for new shooters, I would absolutely recommend the budget guns, the fun is too much to avoid to wait for the top tier guns.

[Possum Stu]

37 minutes ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

f you have time to peruse the Web and shop around a bit, there are deals to be had.

 

Definitely true. Diligence and patience pay off. I got good deals on a couple of Uberti Cattlemen and both of my Vaqueros by keeping an eye on Gunbroker, and picked up a perfectly serviceable long range rifle in a trade for an old guitar amp. There are still plenty of good finds out there for those willing to look. 

[Warden Callaway]

Don't overlooks making an effort to mentor a new shooter by loaning them guns or whatever they are short of.  It's a great way to expose them to different guns, calibers, etc.  

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

That's why I shoot a Henry Big Boy.

She may not be the fastest rifle on the range, but I get to shoot, and I rarely miss.

Besides she's a beauty.

Stoeger SxS was the least expensive, and only my Ruger Vaquero's cost the most.

My gun cart was originally purchased for $10 at our range swap meet.

 

 

 

[McCandless]

29 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Right now, he's still in 'Sticker Shock', even with some of the 'minimal' purchases.

 

Yup, I see that happening a lot.  Just trying to find solutions for getting prospective folks over the hump.  I'm fortunate, I could buy whatever I wanted once I found that I was going to stick with this game.  A lot aren't in that situation.  (oh, and I was real lucky on that Marlin, maybe it had been worked over in a previous life.  It's a .357 and seems to feed whatever .38 I throw in there.  I'm going to have fun playing with it!)

Looking forward to shooting with you again, first pepsi's on me!

[Dantankerous]

MSRP sticker shock on new Ruger Vaqueros are certainly intimidating. Explain to new shooters that that just ain't the price they're going to have to pay if they shop around and especially if they buy used. Also explain that there ain't nothing wrong with a used Ruger Vaquero. Explain how they are built like tanks and will run and run. Also explain how there ain't no need to start with speed guns that are finely tuned. All that may come in time but for now, "Let's just get you shooting, Pard. And I'll help you in any way I can." 

 

Invite a new shooter or a perspective shooter to one of the big matches just to watch and check out the swap meet. Deals can be found all day long at a swap meet on everything from clothes to firearms.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

I agree with pretty much everything above--great advice from great cowboys.

 

We loan guns, ammo and gear to the new shooters and steer them in direction of good deals within the club

 

We have some leathersmiths that do great work at reasonable prices and short time frames.

 

One thing we do discuss is cost of ammo; reloading is a whole 'nother area where money comes into play

 

after all there is a basic cost associated with this sport/hobby/obsession and not everyone has that kind of disposable income

 

not saying NOT to encourage  them  but reality does come into play when the prices are all added up

[Trooper Ozzy]

On my third set of revolvers, 4th shotgun, second rifle. I'm in year number 2. Was able to acquire all by starting out with inexpensive and working towards what works best for me. I have not lost any money on the buying and reselling. Like most have said, reloading was the intimidating purchase but has become the most satisfying dollar wise. Single stage Lee press mounted on a stool, Harbor Freight tumbler, nothing fancy and they make bullets that shoot great.  Buy what you can find and afford and just start. Waiting for the perfect set-up means a few years lost of great fun. 

[Wrangler Bob]

I was "introduced" to SASS/CAS by my neighbor in 2016. I went to a couple of local area practice shoots where the folks there let me try their revolvers, rifles and shot guns. Fun, since I hadn't shot any caliber over a .22 in rifle or revolver and only a 16 gauge shot gun. Then one of the group wanted to know if I was going to come out to shoot the following week and I agreed to come out. The next week I showed up and met with this shooter and he had an array of guns and rifles, shot guns like I had never seen before. They were laid out on three tables, end to end and facing away from the "range" so as not to interfere with the other shooters. I shot .38's, .45's, 9mm. revolvers, pistols, rifles and pump shot guns. Whata' hoot! I was hooked!!

I was 78 years old, on SS, and very retired. I heard all of the talk about what I needed to get. A few months went by borrowing revolvers, rifle and shot gun. [The 97 shot gun I never got the hang of for some reason. Then I tried a SXS; that worked for me.] I found a pair of Ruger Blackhawks in .357/.38 caliber through a SASS member and by a SASS member. I explained I was just getting into shooting when the seller told me about a ss 73 he had also and was willing to sell. I ended up buying all three, still borrowed leather and a shot gun. In early 2017 I bought a Stoeger SXS, then a Lee reloader. The dies for .38 were given to me; a scale, bullet puller, several bags of .38 brass and nickel. I then found a brass tumbler at a yard sale; a shot shell re-loader with a spare unit for parts.

I'm having a blast! I'll probably never be competitive and some recent life changes have made joining SASS not possible at the moment, but for now I'm enjoying as much time shooting with my CAS/SASS friends as possible.

 

Just a friend of SASS

So. Nevada

[Sheriff Langston]

That's a great story Berdookid.  This is what Cowboy Action Shooting is all about.

 

I wish you well, hope you become an "official" member of SASS soon.  We would sure be happy to have you!

 

Sheriff Langston.

[Carolina Drifter]

Anyone that degrades or talks down to any shooter rather they be new to the game or a veteran of many years due to "budget friendly" firearms and other gear should be put in their place and or asked to leave.  Not everyone can afford the top of the line firearms or the top of the line action jobs and other gear such as leather, clothing, etc, that is part of our game.  Some folks seem to forget the "have fun" part of the game.  I'd much rather see someone with "budget friendly" gear laughing and having fun than to see someone with everything money can buy fussing about missing one shot and not having a fun and friendly time with their fellow cowfolk.

 

[Matthew Duncan]

I've got a Stevens 311 I'll pass forward to any newbie that is short a shotgun.  FTF.

 

 

[Null N. Void]

I had a "safe queen" Rossi '92 that was a great running rifle, just not as fast as a '73.  For a new shooter, it's a great starter and I sold it for $400 to a new shooter.  I also had some leather that fit and was able to sell it to him at a third of the price of new leather.  I also told him that when it was time to move on, selling the Rossi for a down payment on a '73 wouldn't be an issue for me, whether it was next week, or years from now.

 

There's nothing wrong with a Rossi rifle, used Rugers and a Stoger SxS.  That's probable the cheapest way to start and is very reliable with a little work.  

 

 

[Roscoe Regulator]

43 minutes ago, Carolina Drifter said:

Anyone that degrades or talks down to any shooter rather they be new to the game or a veteran of many years due to "budget friendly" firearms and other gear should be put in their place and or asked to leave.  Not everyone can afford the top of the line firearms or the top of the line action jobs and other gear such as leather, clothing, etc, that is part of our game.  Some folks seem to forget the "have fun" part of the game.  I'd much rather see someone with "budget friendly" gear laughing and having fun than to see someone with everything money can buy fussing about missing one shot and not having a fun and friendly time with their fellow cowfolk.

 

Yes, but it is hard to have fun if your guns aren't running right. Some out-of-the-box guns have possibilities though, if not pushed too hard. My buddy's new Henry shooting 38s without a hitch with respectable times is impressive and very budget  friendly. Another has  a new "Remlin" that is running well in 45 Colt...load 'er up and shoot it.

 

My own start though, even with high grade guns, required sending off both my rifle and my shotgun to get to a reliable level. Some of the "budget" part is only the initial investment.

[Boomstick Bruce]

I started with a pair of pieta 58's with 45colt drop in cylinders, a rossi 92 in 45colt and a stevens 311a 12 gague... I have moved up to a pair of 5.5" uberti 58's in stainless with kirst conversions and ejectors in 45colt, a stevens single trigger 315 and I'm still still running the 92... the thing about all the guns I started with is they are pretty much equally not great for SASS out of the box, the nice thing also is I can work them into what I need... I worked on my 92 with the help of steves gunz video and spring kit, watched some you tube videos on how to make the 311 SASS ready (which applied well to the 315 also) and I replaced the mainspring in my remingtons with wolff springs for a SAA and slicked them up all myself... the guns are much better now and I saved a bunch of money! (that I immediately wasted on these conversion remingtons, look up the cost of going that route!) anyway, its a hobby... if SASS was anything other than a hobby, we would be making money doing it and we'd call it a job!

 

btw, Iove my guns!

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

Well said. Same goes for reloading presses. Got nothing against Dillon or progressive presses, but you should match your press to your needs. For my 3,000 rounds per year, my uses Lee 4 hole turret works just fine. As for leather, I still shoot with one of those cheap made in Mexico rigs that I bought used 15 years ago. Might not be the prettiest, but it gets the job done. I was able to get a custom made rig (seen as a avatar) a few years ago for Doc DisAster. Haven't seen any posting from him for quite some time. Hope your ok, Doc.

[Black Hills Barb]

So very true.  I talked to a new shooter this weekend that was more than ready to replace his starter rifle, "my darn Rossi" as he referred to it.  He asked around and got the unanimous endorsement of the Uberti 66 or 73.  He asked to have a look at my 66 after the match.  I offered him some ammo and left him shoot it.  The short stroke surprised and delighted him.  Further conversation led to the comment to cut to the chase and buy it already tuned.  However, he just knew that part was out of his budget.  I explained that my husband had purchased and installed the short stroke kits on all our rifles.  He then stated that he was not a stranger to working on his own guns at all and walked away happy knowing that there was a more affordable solution as well as something he could do on a timeline and a budget.  We plan on talking again later this month so that he can gather more info on what to buy and where to get it.  

[Cree Anders SASS# 97000]

Thank you ! Just reading your post made me feel better . I will be starting with a jw2000 hammered sxs and a Henry big boy . My pistols are uberti ElPatrons . I may not be super competitive but I am sure I will have fun ! As I get down the road there will be upgrades for sure as I learn what works best for me .

[Buckshot Dobbs]

Man, I could not agree with this thread more! 6 years ago when I started, I read on the wire so many guys say "You gotta have $1700 worth of tuned Vaqueros, $1200 worth of a tuned SKB, and $1500 tuned '73, $500 worth of leather, a $400 gun cart!!"

 

Well, I had a 1858 Pietta with a drop in cylinder conversion, a 44 mag super blackhawk I already had, an 1894 Marlin in 44 mag I paid $450 for and a Baikal shotgun I paid $280 for when I went to first match and I would not change a thing. Did I get different guns later?...yep....but I started with what I had and I wouldn't change a thing. It's like how all the young married couples today, don't want to start out with the cheap house or apartment, they want to go straight to the $250,000 dollar house like mom and dad have that they worked 30 years to be able to afford....they miss all the struggles and challenges to get there...they miss the journey....so if we run folks off and not let em shoot what they have or can afford...we rob them of the great experiences we had growing in this sport!

 

just my 2 cents.

 

BD

 

[Jimmy Reb, SASS #54804]

Used Blackhawks are usually cheaper than used Vaqueros, and can be used in most catagories. They are great for starter guns.