McCandless Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I've been reading posts on this Wire and posts made on some "social media" cowboy shooting sites by our own members, shooting us in the foot! They complain about how SASS folks don't dress right anymore, or they shoot highly modified guns and you can't win without them, and they complain that boots aren't right or the leather isn't authentic or whatever the burr is under their saddle at the time. I suggest, if the manner of dress isn't SASS legal, then call them on it. There are penalties for shooting that way. If it is SASS legal, then get over it. If you want to see rules changed, then have your TG take it up the chain. Work for change, don't just complain. Some want a category for Box Stock guns, then work with your club to get the category started, work out the kinks. Many categories started that way Some want a "Big Iron" category with increased power factors. Same thing, work on the category at club level and see how it goes. If it's successful, it will spread. If you want "mouse-fart" loads eliminated, work with your TG, move it up the chain, lobby SASS to change the power factor rules. Don't just complain... do something! In the meantime, if the load is legal, or the dress is legal, that's the game. Let folks play it like it's written. Or, work with like-minded folks to get the rules changed. If the load is too weak to meet power factor, or the dress is less than legal, challenge it. It's either legal or it's not. But, the grousing and complaining drives away prospective shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 23 minutes ago, McCandless said: I've been reading posts on this Wire and posts made on some "social media" cowboy shooting sites by our own members, shooting us in the foot! They complain about how SASS folks don't dress right anymore, or they shoot highly modified guns and you can't win without them, and they complain that boots aren't right or the leather isn't authentic or whatever the burr is under their saddle at the time. I suggest, if the manner of dress isn't SASS legal, then call them on it. There are penalties for shooting that way. If it is SASS legal, then get over it. If you want to see rules changed, then have your TG take it up the chain. Work for change, don't just complain. Some want a category for Box Stock guns, then work with your club to get the category started, work out the kinks. Many categories started that way Some want a "Big Iron" category with increased power factors. Same thing, work on the category at club level and see how it goes. If it's successful, it will spread. If you want "mouse-fart" loads eliminated, work with your TG, move it up the chain, lobby SASS to change the power factor rules. Don't just complain... do something! In the meantime, if the load is legal, or the dress is legal, that's the game. Let folks play it like it's written. Or, work with like-minded folks to get the rules changed. If the load is too weak to meet power factor, or the dress is less than legal, challenge it. It's either legal or it's not. But, the grousing and complaining drives away prospective shooters. I have to agree with you there. Some folks just like to complain, but luckily most pards are out just to have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I couldn’t agree more. What’s even more annoying is when these posts come from people who don’t even go to matches anymore and only really exist online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Tom Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Well said. Irish Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 McCandless, Remind me to buy you a cold Pepsi next time we meet. Good thread. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Yeaaa!!! Well said my friend Duc. Or as Jefro would say.....Ta Daaaaaaa!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted May 4, 2018 Author Share Posted May 4, 2018 25 minutes ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said: Or as Jefro would say.....Ta Daaaaaaa!! Jefro, it's been way too long. Once my eyesight is healed up I'm going to take a trip over to your excellent club-by-the-sea.! (maybe you can even show me how to Fast Draw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 My biggest complaint is I don't get to play SASS Cowboy enough. OP, well stated. Very well said. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Stu Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I couldn’t agree more with this! I’ve been shooting for 10 years, so not nearly as long as some, but SASS is every bit as fun for me now as when I started. I swear, some people seem to live to complain. I would ask anyone complaining about this sport, or grousing about how it’s changed- What have you done or are you doing to make it better? So you don’t like “stand and deliver” stages? Well, how about volunteering to write stages for your club? Don’t like how some people dress? Feel free to volunteer to judge the costume contest at a shoot, and make sure you’re doing your best to dress the part yourself! Want more people to shoot “box stock” guns and heavier loads? Make sure everyone can see how much fun you’re having with your guns and loads! Give them an example to follow. Maybe come up with a club level award for shooters using said guns and loads? Bottom line: if you’re not having fun in this sport, start by taking a look at your attitude. Set your house in perfect order before you criticize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Wasn't the gunfight by the OK Corral in Tombstone basically a Stand and Deliver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: McCandless, Remind me to buy you a cold Pepsi next time we meet. Good thread. ..........Widder Pepsi ? Buy that Man a Miller High Life ! Lol I will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 4 hours ago, McCandless said: I've been reading posts on this Wire and posts made on some "social media" cowboy shooting sites by our own members, shooting us in the foot! They complain about how SASS folks don't dress right anymore, or they shoot highly modified guns and you can't win without them, and they complain that boots aren't right or the leather isn't authentic or whatever the burr is under their saddle at the time.... I'd like to complain about this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 5 hours ago, McCandless said: Some want a "Big Iron" category with increased power factors. Isn't that basically classic cowboy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted May 4, 2018 Author Share Posted May 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said: Isn't that basically classic cowboy? Darned if I know, but some folks are saying that power factors just ain't high enough. They're saying that we need a category that makes the targets want to hide and whimper! More power to them. Hope they buy us some replacement steel too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe Regulator Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 46 minutes ago, Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 said: I'd like to complain about this thread... Well, there is the flip side, where so many seem to be concerned about other people's shortcomings, with some of those boogey men pretty much imaginary, based on the good folks I shoot with. We also try to shut down discussions, as if problems should be addressed...just don't bring them up on SASSWire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted May 4, 2018 Author Share Posted May 4, 2018 32 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said: Well, there is the flip side, where so many seem to be concerned about other people's shortcomings, with some of those boogey men pretty much imaginary, based on the good folks I shoot with. We also try to shut down discussions, as if problems should be addressed...just don't bring them up on SASSWire. Howdy RR, absolutely no disrespect intended. I've read your comment a number of times, but I'm not making any sense of it. Maybe, it's my muddled head. I've been without sleep for 36 hours, so I'm some dense. Could you maybe break it down some, a little simpler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk James Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I don't understand the complaining. There is something in SASS for everyone. If you don't like the short strokes and loads, don't shoot them. Shoot what you enjoy. If you don't like big and short, there are all kinds of shoots that offer a different format. Make your shoot enjoyable and shoot the kind of firearms and loads you enjoy. I get my butt kicked at every shoot by two teenage kids and still have a blast. I am not going to stop because they are faster than I am. If you are playing golf there is always somebody that can or cannot beat you, and may have better clubs than you do. Do you stop playing because of this or are you playing to better yourself? Life is to short to complain, especially in our age groups, so have fun and enjoy what you do and don't worry about what others are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I'm just waiting for a "Top shooter" to complain... Don't remember reading one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake Russ Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 2 hours ago, McCandless said: Darned if I know, but some folks are saying that power factors just ain't high enough. They're saying that we need a category that makes the targets want to hide and whimper! More power to them. Hope they buy us some replacement steel too! Time to unleash the .46 Extra Long Colt Magnum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I do not know if it is so much the whining and complaining as it is seeing the decline in membership and that Sass keeps the failed business model adopted when they brought in the so called marketing guru in the mid 90's that caused the decline. The numbers do not lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 . . . then again, some folks would complain even if they were hung with a new rope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 29 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: I'm just waiting for a "Top shooter" to complain... Don't remember reading one. That is because their "top shooter" standing is practice and skill based. They work for their winnings. Some of the complainers want to compete on their terms by creating a category to suit them or by scenarios that favor their style, regardless of what the majority wants. The "top shooters," I know and respect, take what they are given and do their best without complaint. It seems that many of the complainers long for the old days. Some of the not so fun things I remember from the old days are instances of "competing with the rule books." (Hubby's term. BTW he was a very good shooter in his day.) An unforgettable example that happened at a State Championship match was where multiple pistol shots were taken from a large number of windows. People were advised to watch out for others who moved with a cocked pistol. One woman I know got a SDQ for moving with a cocked pistol. Her husband had a video to disprove it. However, most of us know that video evidence is not allowed. That was over 15 years ago and I haven't seen her at a match since. Another example was when a shooter returned from another state and told us at a shooters' meeting that he saw 31 cross-draw infractions at that State's Championship Match. Seriously, who would do that? IMO, that would suck the fun out of a match to watch for errors rather than minding the business of counting or timing or officiating at the LT or ULT. It seems that some of the complainers long for the old days, or their vision of the old days, so they can win without working for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 49 minutes ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said: I do not know if it is so much the whining and complaining as it is seeing the decline in membership and that Sass keeps the failed business model adopted when they brought in the so called marketing guru in the mid 90's that caused the decline. The numbers do not lie. Please post the numbers and their sources that you are writing about. One I'd like to see is the yearly increase in numbers in the 80s, 90s, 00s... Let us see the decline that you say the numbers prove. Or you just stating an opinion that you cannot back up with facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 53 minutes ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said: I do not know if it is so much the whining and complaining as it is seeing the decline in membership and that Sass keeps the failed business model adopted when they brought in the so called marketing guru in the mid 90's that caused the decline. The numbers do not lie. You're still harping on the same old story...for the sake of clarity, where are you shooting these days? Phantom V.P Green Mountain Regulators Member Plum Creek Shooting Society Regular shooter at Texican Rangers and Darby Rough Regulators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said: I do not know if it is so much the whining and complaining as it is seeing the decline in membership and that Sass keeps the failed business model adopted when they brought in the so called marketing guru in the mid 90's that caused the decline. The numbers do not lie. Howdy, Very respectfully, If I remember right when I came on board around 2000, that was when the growth boom was in full swing. I'd be interested in knowing what you feel the business model should be that would dramatically increase the enrollment. Roll it out and let's kick around a bit. Maybe it's something that hasn't been considered? Misty's a pretty astute person, perhaps it's something that can be used. Also, how does that correlate to our own members that are complaining that we don't dress "western" enough. Or that we should have 'box stock" categories, or that we should be shooting full factory loads one handed. Or that our leather should be strictly out of "Packing Iron". Yet, they are free to shoot and dress however they wish to shoot... they just want new categories to be mandated "from on high" without trying to find out if there is enough interest at club level, or doing any work to make those categories come about. Look forward to hearing your ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 2 hours ago, McCandless said: Howdy RR, absolutely no disrespect intended. I've read your comment a number of times, but I'm not making any sense of it. Maybe, it's my muddled head. I've been without sleep for 36 hours, so I'm some dense. Could you maybe break it down some, a little simpler? Too much Pepsi will do that to ya! Gotta be careful if'n ya drinkin' sumpthin Widder gave ya! Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Krazy Kajun said: Too much Pepsi will do that to ya! Gotta be careful if'n ya drinkin' sumpthin Widder gave ya! Kajun Mebbe I need summa that Black Golde "lemonade"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 7 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: McCandless, Remind me to buy you a cold Pepsi next time we meet. Good thread. ..........Widder Hey Widder, yer a cheap date! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Creek Jack Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Well, I don't know to much about anything that happened in the past at CAS as I am now in my second year in this game, but I do know when people are helpful and very cordial, good shots and so fast it is amazing. I have watched closely the fast guys or "gamers" as they are called and I can tell by the way they handle their firearms and track the targets and manage their footwork, hustle from position to position that it is not a tricked out pistol rifle or shotgun that made them that way, it is hours and hours and thousands of rounds of ammo that made them top shooters, do the "slicked up" firearms add to their time? SURE, but I know they could take out of the box firearms and still be outstanding competitors. When most folks are watching football or just laying on the couch those folks are burning powder and honing their game, it is the same in any sport, the ones that put in the extra time and effort are usually at the top when the day is done. I am 66 yrs. young, retired and spend a lot of time and treasure on my range TRYING to get better, and my times are starting to get shorter and the misses less, I don't shoot tricked out guns but I have learned how to smooth them up and they shoot great, if there is a problem its me. I love this sport and have no expectations of ever being a top shooter and beating those guys and gals that smoke through stages in 14 and 18 seconds, but I'm gonna practice and compete as much as possible and admire those that can and do win consistently. Just my thoughts- SCJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 On 5/4/2018 at 8:22 PM, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said: That is because their "top shooter" standing is practice and skill based. They work for their winnings. Some of the complainers want to compete on their terms by creating a category to suit them or by scenarios that favor their style, regardless of what the majority wants. The "top shooters," I know and respect, take what they are given and do their best without complaint. It seems that many of the complainers long for the old days. Some of the not so fun things I remember from the old days are instances of "competing with the rule books." (Hubby's term. BTW he was a very good shooter in his day.) An unforgettable example that happened at a State Championship match was where multiple pistol shots were taken from a large number of windows. People were advised to watch out for others who moved with a cocked pistol. One woman I know got a SDQ for moving with a cocked pistol. Her husband had a video to disprove it. However, most of us know that video evidence is not allowed. That was over 15 years ago and I haven't seen her at a match since. Another example was when a shooter returned from another state and told us at a shooters' meeting that he saw 31 cross-draw infractions at that State's Championship Match. Seriously, who would do that? IMO, that would suck the fun out of a match to watch for errors rather than minding the business of counting or timing or officiating at the LT or ULT. It seems that some of the complainers long for the old days, or their vision of the old days, so they can win without working for it. I just enjoy shooting and Life is good. Best wishes to ALL and we need to enjoy the time we have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said: Hey Widder, yer a cheap date! BUT, I am a good conversationalist..... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 I've seen a gradual change in CAS, yes. I, quite frankly, like it. Do I miss the "olden" days? Nope. I just visit a club that still does that stuff. Don't like how a club runs things and writes stages? Find another. There is more than one in the nation. I'm lucky as can be to love shooting my home club that has some excellent stage writers and also be within reach of other clubs with different styles -and the same sort of super folks that I find throughout SASS. Variety is good and easy to find. AND, in my humble opinion, it's not SASS's fault if we do indeed have declining membership. It OUR fault. Yours and mine. Driving to a shoot alone? WHY? Invite folks to come out. Want to see this grow? Well folks, it's OUR job. God I love this game. Thanks to each one of you on the Wire and everyone not. Thanks for listening. Mark, uh, Slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: BUT, I am a good conversationalist..... ..........Widder I got a bottle of whiskey with your name on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Friend, SASS #53635 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 We are ascending the fat part of the bell curve of the baby boomers turning sixty-five. We are still on the upswing but the entire population is aging and there are less people coming up behind to fill in for those falling off the far side. The declining numbers of SASS membership has more to do with demographics than a series of business decisions. Cowboys ain’t cool anymore unless they’re in space. Maybe we need a Firefly category. Here’s what I don’t get. If you join a club to play their game then you choose by default that club’s rules. That’s the challenge you are undertaking. It almost doesn’t matter what the rules are, it matters that you win within the context of those rules. That’s the game. If you go around trying to change the rules to suit your game then you are basically saying you ain’t got game. Some rule changes are necessary and benefit the game (no more rank scoring) but the rules are a guideline within which we have great freedom to play. Some folks just need something to complain about, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said: This has been hashed about for years We all know the numbers are showing an aging membership along with declining membership. I also learned a few years ago to not disagree to loudly and will not be baited as I was once before. I just enjoy shooting and Life is good. Best wishes to ALL and we need to enjoy the time we have left. Yer right...we should let the past lay. But most folks are proud of their clubs...where they shoot. Just wondering where you shoot...not baiting or anything. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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