Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I still don't see how someone shooting .32 S&W long, can make the standard... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 59 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said: Do you know if the challenge process using those loads has ever occurred? For those of us who consider our State level matches to be our major matches, do you know where the standard loads can be obtained? My online searches have not found any commercial supplier offering a .38 Special cartridge with a 145 grain bullet and Goex powder. They were used at EoT for the "smoke challenge" in which I was a participant. SASS protocols were followed to the letter. Shooter prevailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 18 minutes ago, Snakebite said: Standard BP test Ammunition, to be added to the ROI course: The Standard Ammunition used as a reference should be assembled and on hand before the match. All caliber “Standards” shall be loaded with 1cc of real Black Powder and appropriate filler. Test have proven that the standard ammunition in each caliber produced approximately the same amount of smoke, however, it is suggested that as many caliber “Standards” as possible be on hand. Snakebite, Thank you for the clarification and for all the sweat and tears you put into getting the standard formulated. One question; Was it the RO Committee's intention to use the .38 Special formula to judge all challenges? If a competitor shooting .32s has his loads challenged, can the match officials make a decision by comparing his loads to the "standard" .38 Specials, or must the challenge be judged using only a .32 BP cartridge? I can supply the clubs to which I belong with "standard" BP cartridges in .38 Special, but I cannot load for all calibers. I appreciate knowing the "standards" can be assembled locally. I had previously thought they must be supplied by SASS or purchased from a supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 minute ago, J-BAR #18287 said: Snakebite, Thank you for the clarification and for all the sweat and tears you put into getting the standard formulated. One question; Was it the RO Committee's intention to use the .38 Special formula to judge all challenges? If a competitor shooting .32s has his loads challenged, can the match officials make a decision by comparing his loads to the "standard" .38 Specials, or must the challenge be judged using only a .32 BP cartridge? I can supply the clubs to which I belong with "standard" BP cartridges in .38 Special, but I cannot load for all calibers. The EoT challenge involved the "prototype" .38spl loads that Snakebite mentioned (we had to borrow a revolver to shoot them) compared side-by-side alternately with the shooter's .32 revolver loads fired from HIS pistol. We had three unbiased observers watch the test in an unused shooting bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: The EoT challenge involved the "prototype" .38spl loads that Snakebite mentioned (we had to borrow a revolver to shoot them) compared side-by-side alternately with the shooter's .32 revolver loads fired from HIS pistol. We had three unbiased observers watch the test in an unused shooting bay. Cool. Nice to have that as a precedent. Thanks for the info. I tried to send you a "Like" but I've maxed for the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 25 minutes ago, Big Rock, SASS #44055 said: Now, we need to see some .32 loads for comparison My wife shoots .32H&R Rugers and makes plenty of smoke. She uses a 115gr 32-20 bullet, and it's about .8cc of Goex Pinnacle (same as APP). Smoke is not an issue in my family! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major BS Walker Regulator Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I have carried 20, 38 caliber, 1cc goex 2f but with 140g bullets (didn't have 145's) with me for the last 5 years to all major matches I have attended. Just encase there is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Plenty of Smoke ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I use 1.98cc of Goex 3F under a 220 gr bullet lubed with SPG to make smoke ..... With my .44s When I want to make "Plenty of Smoke" I use my .45s loaded with 2.5cc of Goex 3f under a 270 gr. bullet... Just saying Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 The standard ammo for calibrating knockdown targets is a 38 special. The BP standard uses the same cartridge. As has been shown, the smoke does not vary greatly by caliber. The 32 H&R will make enough smoke if loaded correctly. Using a shorter version can put the shooter at risk.. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I have no idea what cc my loads are, because I fill them full enough to get some compression when I seat the bullet. All I shoot is APP and .45 Colt. Don't really care about making a "minimum amount of smoke"....more is better! Anyone ever had a problem with a shotgun not making the Minimum smoke? Here's my 10 ga at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Big Sage; NICE !!! When Asked by folks what to use for filler in blackpowder cartridges I say 3F .... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider, SASS #72622 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Coyote Kincaid said: This is why I like BP. I watched some spotters confused if I had shot targets out of order. It was only a monthly so I fessed up. They called me clean on the stage before and I had two misses and a P. I've been on the other end of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Ozzy Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 In a 45 colt a mounded 2.2 cc of FF APP behind a 200 gr is my gamer load. I still get TMS'd on my stages. I brought down a few deer last fall with 2.5 cc. They dropped the same as my corelokt 150 gr in my 30-30 Marlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Ozzy Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 18 minutes ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said: Big Sage; NICE !!! When Asked by folks what to use for filler in blackpowder cartridges I say 3F .... Jabez Cowboy If you smell cereal burning from the grits, start heckling. You eat breakfast, not shoot it out your barrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Shot with this Fellow that every time he tripped the trigger ,,, it smelled like those popcorn machines they have in some hardware shops making a new batch ... Made me hungry ...... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 43 minutes ago, Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life said: I have no idea what cc my loads are, because I fill them full enough to get some compression when I seat the bullet. All I shoot is APP and .45 Colt. Don't really care about making a "minimum amount of smoke"....more is better! Anyone ever had a problem with a shotgun not making the Minimum smoke? Here's my 10 ga at night. Wel that certainly is NOT APP. Very cool BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 SSS, (Silly suppository shooters), it ain't challenging til you man up & shoot Frontiersman in the RAIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Here's J-bar exceeding the standard with real BP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 J-Bar. Thanks very much. Excellent video. Not being a BP shooter this was educational for me. I have always wondered what a minimum load would look like. I can honestly say that every BP shooter I have seen shoot definitely puts out more smoke than that. The more smoke the more they grin. and I love watchin' 'em do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 ...and J-Bar's son Frett Maverick shooting Pyrodex in a 12 gauge: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: J-Bar. Thanks very much. Excellent video. Not being a BP shooter this was educational for me. I have always wondered what a minimum load would look like. I can honestly say that every BP shooter I have seen shoot definitely puts out more smoke than that. The more smoke the more they grin. and I love watchin' 'em do it. Come on over to the Dark Side Pat. Then you will have an ear to ear smile like the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: ...and J-Bar's son Frett Maverick shooting Pyrodex in a 12 gauge: That may be Goex, but I appreciate you remembering the photo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Mathewson, 37826 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 J Bar Thanks for the video. I was right on one of the test clips #7 APP. I noticed the APP was throwing smoking streamers during the comparison shooting. Other than that the only difference I saw was the Pyrodex smoke seemed to be a bit off white but I didn't pick that out in the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said: That may be Goex, but I appreciate you remembering the photo! As I recall, you said at the time it was Pyrodex. But then again, you could be wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 56 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said: Wel that certainly is NOT APP. Very cool BTW Nope it's Goex! I bought 22# of military surplus stuff years ago and the 10ga really ate it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said: I still don't see how someone shooting .32 S&W long, can make the standard... Jabez Cowboy Captain Baylor and I tested .32 Longs commercially-loaded with Triple Seven against smoke-standard .38s - they clearly failed the smoke standard. This was documented in one of Baylor's articles in the Cowboy Chronicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 FWIW - the shooter challenged at EoT was shooting .32 H&R Magnums in Ruger Single-Six "Baby Vaqueros", IIRC. I don't recall the load/powder/bullet weight/lube being used. Quote The.32 H&R Magnum is a rimmed cartridge designed for use in revolvers. It was developed in 1984 as a joint venture between Harrington & Richardson and Federal Cartridge. The.32 H&R Magnum is produced by lengthening the.32 S&W Long case by.155", to 1.075". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cent Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 "OK, trivia question ... Who established and recommended the BP smoke standard to SASS, approved by the TG's? PS: Badge numbers 50,000 and below ... please don't vote to determine if the later members know " Awwwwww, that ain't fair. Good ol' days with lot of discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 when the RO starts to complain as you walk up to the line, you know you have met the smoke standard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 You know, it's funny, I didn't hear one "ding", "clang" or "ping" after any of those shots J-Bar fired in that video.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 15 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: You know, it's funny, I didn't hear one "ding", "clang" or "ping" after any of those shots J-Bar fired in that video.... Yeah, but if you look close you can see I killed a couple of branches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Bob Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 18 hours ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said: Not me, I like it calm and overcast with about a 50' ceiling Shot in Ky. one time when it was like that, after the 1st or 2nd round you were bobbing and weaving and waiting to find the other targets, it was great!! If you gotta worry about making the minimum standard then BP shooting probably ain't for you. 19 hours ago, Silver Sam, SASS #34718L said: I'm always praying for the wind to come up when I go to the Line...... Lets add a little rain into the mix too!!!:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Coolest thing I ever had a TO say to me was "How did you not miss those targets? I couldn't see anything after the second pistol shot!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulp, SASS#28319 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Lot of work went into that video. Enjoyed it. The only true objective way to measure smoke would be to shoot into a light box with photometers on the side. Of course the box would have to have a fan, to clear out all smoke before the next test is done. I'd reckon that would be too much trouble for most clubs!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Clark Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Think I found a pic of the smoke standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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