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What the SASS Minimum BP Smoke Cloud Looks Like


J-BAR #18287

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for fun I weighed 1 cc of 777,,, comes out to 1.2 gr,,,,   and I've heard of folks using .7 grain,,,, and not making much smoke at all....

 

as I recall some work was done on comparisons of the standard load and subs.... .9 gr of 777 was the same as the standard.. from what I remember..

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On 7/16/2017 at 11:21 AM, J-BAR #18287 said:

All matches begin with a Pledge of Allegiance, Yee-Haw!, and a safety meeting including review of local rules.  It seems to me that it would not be much trouble for the Match Director to fire off a few of the minimum standard cartridges and announce, "OK that is what the minimum black powder cloud looks like in today's conditions."

 

It would serve to calibrate all the shooters so that frivolous challenges might be avoided.  And it serves notice to those who might need it that the club is willing and able to enforce the minimum smoke requirement.

I like that idea, at least it would get every ones attention for a minute. I never thought it about it a match cause I know I'm gonna more than meet the standard.

    I did have a shooter PM me one time many moons ago requesting my 7/8oz load with the Pink wad. I was very surprised when he replied back saying that was too much BP:huh:. What I saw at the match was...uhhhh      interesting:wacko: FWIW I always shoot a 1 1/8oz with the BPI  #72SSW short wad at large matches.....although my 7/8oz load would still exceed my needs;)

 

Jefro:ph34r:Relax-Enjoy

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The Standard Minimum Smoke requirement on page 10 of the ROII Handbook sets the minimum powder requirement as a volume,  "15 grains by volume, 1.0 CC", not a weight:

 

598a1d5e97061_ScreenShot2017-08-08at3_19_11PM.png.a2f41613a443aa4eb66d3085289912df.png

 

Anyone who has shot any blackpowder has heard the argument about "grains volume" versus "grains weight" plenty of times and there is no need to rehash that dead horse here.

 

The video demonstrates that 1.0 CC of any powder will produce smoke clouds that are indistinguishable from each other and the SASS Goex 2F standard.  I think the pictures posted in this thread prove that the majority of SASS Soot Lords consider it a point of honor to meet or exceed the 1.0 CC minimum powder charge.  Speculating about what other volumes of powders might be passed off as producing about the same smoke volume not only disrespects the standard, but is also a violation of the rule.  I will not be conducting any experiments on smaller volumes of powder.  While those past experiments may have been intended to help shooters, I think it is time to encourage shooters to respect the standard and load at least 1.0 CC of powder per shot.  If a competitor decides to load less powder than that for whatever reason, they should realize they risk a challenge.

 

OK, I'm off my soapbox now, and would love to see more smoky pictures!  :D

 

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On 8/7/2017 at 7:05 PM, Black Mike said:

I have not seen anyone challenge smoke at any of the Northeast, New York, PA or MD matches as well as Fire & Ice and Winter Range. Hate to see it become an item of contention. 

 

I use 1.3 cc of APP or 3F Black under a 1/2 inch wad in my 45 colts or 44-40's most of the time.  Once In a while at local matches I go full case. 

 

Video is 1.3 cc of 3 f.APP with 200 gr lead in 44-40. Note smoke from behind tough to see target, but from side not so bad. 

 

 

 

Academy Award Nominee!!!!

AR

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On 7/14/2017 at 11:17 AM, Silver Sam, SASS #34718L said:

I applaud your effort but all of the examples you show are in pretty nice weather conditions with only a slight breeze.

I'm sure you're aware, but I doubt that everyone is....

The visible amount of smoke will change substantially depending on weather conditions.... 

Especially humidity and wind....  even the position of the sun can make a difference.

 

I'm always praying for the wind to come up when I go to the Line...... B)

Some shoots in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming, you can't tell the BP from smokeless since the wind is blowing the smoke away so fast.

 

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1 hour ago, Lost Trail said:

Some shoots in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming, you can't tell the BP from smokeless since the wind is blowing the smoke away so fast.

 

 

That's part of why I contend that it's a useless standard.  J-Bar obviously worked hard to demonstrate the volume of smoke put out by his guns in his temperature/barometric and wind conditions.  However, I'll say what I said earlier, anyone who claims they can determine with any semblance of precision how much powder a shooter is packing based on the observed cloud is just blowing smoke.

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