How do I tactfully tell a person about dress rules?

[Sixgun Seamus]

3 hours ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said:

"I noticed you have been shooting with us for some time.

Do you think you might stay with this sport?

Might want to think about dressing the part.

We do have rules about what is to be worn at a match."

 

Try this.

4 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Where is it written you must be Tactful??

Then this.

[Yul Lose]

Let them know that there is a dress code. After the first few matches it should become evident and hopefully you're not the only one bringing it up.

[Shooting Bull]

My first inclination would be to go through the father and try to be helpful. "Hey. I sure wouldn't want to see your boy run afoul of the costume police and end up eating a Stage or Match DQ. Is he working on filling out his wardrobe?" Hopefully the father will come back and tell you what they're doing to become rules compliant. Anything other than that, turn the issue over to match officials. 

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

So if his tee shirt is the only thing wrong why not limit comments to just that.  Give him the minimum shirt alternative ie long sleeves. 

  

[Utah Bob #35998]

Most clubs make adjustments for weather ....but this guy must have noticed no one else wears t shirts. MD should ensure all rules are adhered to. The minimal rules on clothing aren't that hard to conform too. If it's monetary I'm sure soneone would help out. If he just doesn't like dressing cowboy, he may be in the wrong game.

 

[Tracker Jack Daniels,58780]

7 hours ago, Gold Canyon Kid #43974 said:

 

 

Except for CC there is no rule against blue jeans.  Lots of cowboy shooters wear them.  Simple totally legal costume is blue jeans and an old flannel shirt,  any leather shoe, or non athletic shoe but no combat boots. No requirement for suspenders either.

Where is the rule against blue jeans in Classic Cowboy?  Looked in my rule books and could not find it!

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

So we all get there, the absolute minimum is a long sleeve shirt, any kind, doesn't have to be "cowboy" or a henley shirt long sleeve with buttons at the neck. We had a shooter wearing a long sleeve white shirt from his day job. His alias ended up being 'Sam White Shirt'.

No hat is required. 

And boots aren't required. It just says what isn't legal as in tennis shoes and combat boots. Barefoot, Brogans as in Civil war, Moccasins, etc. are all legal..

Anyone can put this together.

Ike

 

 

[Scarlett]

13 hours ago, Gold Canyon Kid #43974 said:

The only rule about belt location is for the shotgun shells that have to be at belly button level.  Holster belts are usually lower and lots of shooters use three belts, such as BW shooters. 

As a two belt wearer (buscadero rig) that frequently wears chinks, it can get a little crowded around the belly button!  If I had a little less of me around my belly button, two belts and chinks would be easier!  I'm working on it!

 

Scarlett

[Seldom Seen #16162]

Deleted.

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

21 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Just remember what you felt like when you were the new shooter.  How would you have liked to have been approached?

 

J-BAR said it succinctly.   As a new shooter myself, I remember how my Posse treated me and how they presented issues I needed to have corrected without chastising me. They did it with R.E.S.P.E.C.T.* That would be the .

* Aretha Franklin cover of an Otis Redding song.

 

 

 

[Jackrabbit Joe #414]

I would say that the best way to get around this is to have each Club assign  a volunteer to perform a dress code flyer and if some one is not up to the proper wear then that individual should be made aware of the proper dress, handed a flyer to show proper attire to be worn and or etc.

 

Every club should have a new shooter orientation just prior to the club shoot.

 

SASS Hand Books are available on the net along with RO-1 & RO 2.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Although hats are not required in most categories, I strongly recommend them. They serve three purposes I can think of. One, provide some glare protection, two protect your head from sunburn, and three keep HOT brass from getting inside your shirt.  A ball cap will only protect your front.

 

I started wearing one after a bad sunburn on the top of my head. A friend, shoots a '73 forgot hers once and twice brass found its way to the bridge of her nose, behind her glasses. Those who wear clear lenses find benefit from glare protection.

[watab kid]

this is one of the things i generally evaluate carefully , in my mind we dont want to chase anyone away or this will die off as we all get old , it can be as simple as offering suggestions but why worry of tact if you are genuinely offering rather than a simple criticism that often is taken wrong ? 

 

some are well off at our stage in life , those can afford , some young cannot , a little help goes a long way , criticism can often do more to deter than encourage , remember we dont know the circumstances they live in ... unless you want this restricted to those with wealth ? those that know me well know im no bleeding heart liberal and i dont suffer the rebellious that choose to disparage the rules , but i have a fondness for shooting with young and new shooters because i believe its the future of this and every sport , 

 

often i suggest we look seriously at the "spirit of the game" in these situations , only you know if this is meant as a confrontation to our rules or a lack of ability to fully comply , if in doubt the consideration should go to the shooter , if confirmed then say what you will , 

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

17 hours ago, watab kid said:

 

 

some are well off at our stage in life , those can afford , some young cannot , a little help goes a long way , criticism can often do more to deter than encourage , remember we dont know the circumstances they live in ... unless you want this restricted to those with wealth ? those that know me well know im no bleeding heart liberal and i dont suffer the rebellious that choose to disparage the rules , but i have a fondness for shooting with young and new shooters because i believe its the future of this and every sport , 

 

often i suggest we look seriously at the "spirit of the game" in these situations , only you know if this is meant as a confrontation to our rules or a lack of ability to fully comply , if in doubt the consideration should go to the shooter , if confirmed then say what you will , 

 

Watab Kid,

    Well said.

    Your post got me thinking about a possible solution that Clubs could institute, if some have not already done so; however, i don't wish to hijack this thread, so i will post a new one.

    It will address the highlighted comments above.

    Title of the new thread will be "Follow-up to Dress Rules thread."

[San Joaquin Shootist]

I would suggest you leave it alone if it is not hurting anyone. Unless you are friends with the Father and Son you really don't know what is going on.

 

I find most things like this work themselves out without intervention given time.

 

But then, "I'm a great believer in doing nothing."

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

13 minutes ago, San Joaquin Shootist said:

I would suggest you leave it alone if it is not hurting anyone. Unless you are friends with the Father and Son you really don't know what is going on.

 

I find most things like this work themselves out without intervention given time.

 

But then, "I'm a great believer in doing nothing."

Sorry SJS,

 

I disagree.

 

We have rules. They should be followed.  After all, there is even a penalty for wearing a T-shirt, a SDQ. That is a pretty serious penalty to let slide.  He has shot long enough to have time to acquire appropriate clothing. Like someone wrote, he can acquire a long-sleeve shirt at a thrift store for a dollar or so. So, I don't think cost should be a matter there. One would go far to improve his outfit.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

PS The rules:

"OUTLAWED

The use or presence of any outlawed item is a Stage Disqualification.

• Modern shooting gloves.
• Short sleeve shirts (Male competitors only)
• Short sleeve tee shirts, long sleeve tee shirts, and tank tops for all competitors. Long sleeved Henley type shirts with buttons are acceptable.
• Modern feathered cowboy hats (Shady Bradys). Straw hats of traditional design (e.g., Stetson, Bailey, sombreros,) are acceptable.
• Designer jeans
• Ball caps
• All types of athletic shoes or combat boots, no matter the material from which they are constructed.
• Nylon, plastic, or Velcro accouterments.
• The displaying of manufacturer‘s, sponsor‘s, or team logos on apparel. Manufacturer‘s labels on such apparel or equipment are acceptable.

SASS wants our participants to be safe, have fun, develop their competitive shooting skills, and enjoy the rich traditions of the Old West. We ask you join us in the friendly spirit of competition and preservation of our heritage."

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

I disagree, Allie. It seems there is a double standard in the rules when it comes to how people feel Cowboys should look and dress. Everyone is ready to pile on someone that is wearing a t-shirt, but jet numerous other rules slide, such as the shotgun bra, model 93/97 shotguns, mild bunch, and a slew of other overlooked rules. I'm not advocating the use of t-shirts in sass. My point is that it seems like rules get applied differently depending on what they are and it's more often than not about the look than anything else. 

[Roscoe Regulator]

27 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

<snip>

"OUTLAWED

The use or presence of any outlawed item is a Stage Disqualification.

• Modern shooting gloves.
• Short sleeve shirts (Male competitors only)
• Short sleeve tee shirts, long sleeve tee shirts, and tank tops for all competitors. Long sleeved Henley type shirts with buttons are acceptable.
• Modern feathered cowboy hats (Shady Bradys). Straw hats of traditional design (e.g., Stetson, Bailey, sombreros,) are acceptable.
• Designer jeans
• Ball caps
• All types of athletic shoes or combat boots, no matter the material from which they are constructed.
• Nylon, plastic, or Velcro accouterments.
• The displaying of manufacturer‘s, sponsor‘s, or team logos on apparel. Manufacturer‘s labels on such apparel or equipment are acceptable.

SASS wants our participants to be safe, have fun, develop their competitive shooting skills, and enjoy the rich traditions of the Old West. We ask you join us in the friendly spirit of competition and preservation of our heritage."

Left me wondering about examples of the intent of "Nylon, plastic, or Velcro accouterments.(sic) ".

[Blackwater 53393]

On June 22, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Roscoe Regulator said:

I get that suspenders are not required, but they come into play when trying to avoid wearing three belts, all at or about the belly button.

 

The ONLY belt I wear at navel level is the shotgun belt!!  Never wore my "hold up the pants" belt near my belly button, even as a kid.  The pistol belt, or belts, are worn hanging on my hips, a little below the "hold up the pants" belt.  No problems with interference among the belts!!  I'm 6'2" tall and not that long waisted, but if I tried to wear my gun belt at belly button level, my pistol grips would be nearly into my arm pits!! 

[Shooting Bull]

1 hour ago, Redwood Kid said:

I disagree, Allie. It seems there is a double standard in the rules when it comes to how people feel Cowboys should look and dress. Everyone is ready to pile on someone that is wearing a t-shirt, but jet numerous other rules slide, such as the shotgun bra, model 93/97 shotguns, mild bunch, and a slew of other overlooked rules. I'm not advocating the use of t-shirts in sass. My point is that it seems like rules get applied differently depending on what they are and it's more often than not about the look than anything else. 

 

Im going to paraphrase you here and PLEASE don't take this as though I'm picking on you. I'm simply pointing out a problem I feel needs to be addressed in today's SASS.

 

In essence you're saying that just because some rules are ignored we should go ahead and ignore all the rules. I feel that is 180 degrees backwards. ALL rules need to be enforced. Yes, there can be extenuating circumstances. Those should be handled on a case by case basis and be few and far between. But to let one person slide, no matter how minor the infraction, punishes everyone else in the match. 

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

3 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

We have rules. They should be followed.  After all, there is even a penalty for wearing a T-shirt, a SDQ. That is a pretty serious penalty to let slide.  He has shot long enough to have time to acquire appropriate clothing. Like someone wrote, he can acquire a long-sleeve shirt at a thrift store for a dollar or so. So, I don't think cost should be a matter there. One would go far to improve his outfit.

 

Regards,

I agree, no reason to tippy-toe around this like it's some great expense or you might hurt someones feelings. I mean Hello-Pete we're talking about a long sleeve shirt here, I'm sure all of us have at least one long sleeve shirt in the closet, and if need be a pair of leather shoes or work boots.....good grief. Heck you could wear bib overalls and no shirt and no shoes, I'm sure Nobody would do that and you can too.

 

JefroRelax-Enjoy

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

1 minute ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said:

Heck you could wear bib overalls and no shirt and no shoes, I'm sure Nobody would do that and you can too.

....some times I crack myself up

[Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L]

The rules are the rules. We don't want to run shooters off, but the rules need to adhearded to. If a rule violation is explained to a shooter in tactful and respectful way and they take offense and leave, then you must ask yourself, is that the kind of personality you want in your club?

[Ace_of_Hearts]

What is important is that you say something!

Keeping quiet while someone else skirts or violates any rule hurts the sport overall. Rules about costuming are just as important (maybe even more important) than what gun or modifications you make to them. Why? Because the public see what is happening. They might only being driving by at the back of a bay but something like a T-shirt or a baseball cap stands out like a neon sign when everyone else is dressed "cowboy".

It leaves an impression that the sport is undisciplined and unorganized. 

When anyone is allowed to participate in a non-standard way it detracts from the overall. And in some cases penalizes the other shooters.

If you want to use tact or just want to pass the buck, take it to the Match Director, and if they refuse to correct the situation.....

Refuse to spot or be a Timing Operator for the individual in question.

Ask to be placed on another posse from the individual.

And, of course, the ultimate option of not shooting at that club. (Make sure you let everyone know why you are taking a vacation)

I always opt to talk to the shooter first and explain what rule infraction I believe they are violating. In the case of Buckeroos or Young Guns, I go to the parents in attendance. If they are shooting in an "adult" category then they should be treated like adults and approached directly.

This goes double if the club advertises that "All Sass rules apply".

 

 

[Cypress Sun]

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 11:40 AM, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

Just remember what you felt like when you were the new shooter.  How would you have liked to have been approached?

 

 

 

When I first started CAS (with my Dad), I wore a t-shirt, tennis shoes and a not legal hat. Went clad this way to about 3 matches before I was told politely but firmly that this would not be tolerated at future matches. At first, I was a little taken aback but then I realized that they were not singling me out.....merely enforcing the rules......I complied.

 

That was in 1997......never looked back 'til now.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

2 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Im going to paraphrase you here and PLEASE don't take this as though I'm picking on you. I'm simply pointing out a problem I feel needs to be addressed in today's SASS.

 

In essence you're saying that just because some rules are ignored we should go ahead and ignore all the rules. I feel that is 180 degrees backwards. ALL rules need to be enforced. Yes, there can be extenuating circumstances. Those should be handled on a case by case basis and be few and far between. But to let one person slide, no matter how minor the infraction, punishes everyone else in the match. 

No I'm saying what you're saying. All rules should be enforced. It just seems like certain rules are, to quote animal farm, more equal than others. And then there are rules being enforced that aren't rules at all

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

24 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

That was in 1997......never looked back 'til now.

 

Cypress Sun,

    You're not reminiscing about going back to wearing a T-Shirt, tennis shoes and a not so legal hat, are you? 

[Shooting Bull]

6 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

No I'm saying what you're saying. All rules should be enforced. It just seems like certain rules are, to quote animal farm, more equal than others. And then there are rules being enforced that aren't rules at all

 

My apologies for misunderstanding. We are in agreement. 

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

So if his tee shirt is the only thing wrong why not limit comments to just that.  Give him the minimum shirt alternative ie button up, long sleeves. What is important is that whomever talks to him they keep it to the minimum and not try to tell him fancy cowboy pants with suspenders, authentic era shirts are needed, cowboy era boots are needed, etc. They aren't except maybe  a couple of categories.

  

[Blackey Cole]

On 6/22/2017 at 10:44 AM, Gold Canyon Kid #43974 said:

 

 

Except for CC there is no rule against blue jeans.  Lots of cowboy shooters wear them.  Simple totally legal costume is blue jeans and an old flannel shirt,  any leather shoe, or non athletic shoe but no combat boots. No requirement for suspenders either.

GCK please show me where cc has a rule against blue or any color jeans.  The only thing that even comes close in my reading is that one of the five required accoutrements is braces otherwise known as suspenders.

[Blackey Cole]

On 6/22/2017 at 10:44 AM, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

we tell folks to get their firearms and then clothing but this sounds like he's had enough time to do so

 

As my RO instructor said, "SASS is the only shooting sport with a dress code."

 

That's not true idpa has a requirement of a covergarment, and isipc has forbidden items like military clothing as I recall.

[Blackey Cole]

At the clubs I shot with they usually designated a mentor and in this case it might be the dad buT if he doesn't follow the rules or never presented them to his son after several matches it may be necessary to assign an experienced shooter other than his father to be a mentor or better yet someone his age that is experienced as a buddy to drop clues on how to minimize movements to speed up his times and also go over the rules with him.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

43 minutes ago, Blackey Cole said:

GCK please show me where cc has a rule against blue or any color jeans.  The only thing that even comes close in my reading is that one of the five required accoutrements is braces otherwise known as suspenders.

Earlier on this thread I noted my error, so every category allows jeans.

[Bart Solo]

This is a funny topic.  I have never seen anybody not dress minimally cowboy after a couple of matches.  The social pressure is usually overwhelming.  Most folks just want to fit in.  I mean how hard is it to put on a long sleeve cotton shirt, blue jeans and boots.  Hell you don't even have to wear boots.  Scandinavian Moccasins will do. . 

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

15 minutes ago, Bart Solo said:

This is a funny topic.  I have never seen anybody not dress minimally cowboy after a couple of matches.  The social pressure is usually overwhelming.  Most folks just want to fit in.  I mean how hard is it to put on a long sleeve cotton shirt, blue jeans and boots.  Hell you don't even have to wear boots.  Scandinavian Moccasins will do. . 

Wing tip leather shoes will be legal also, no boots necessary except 2 cat.