Flanigan Flats Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I’ve got my wife interested in shooting with me. Her biggest issue is recoil. She doesn’t like my 45 Rugers at all. I was thinking about trying the cowboy specials for her until we could round up some 38’s. Found the 38’s quicker than expected. So hopefully that will go aways towards solving the pistol recoil problems. She shoots a rifle decently. She is very much not a fan of the shotgun. So here are my questions. How do I help tame the shotgun for her? What shot shells have the least recoil and work the best for CAS in a SXS? Limbsaver and a butt cover for the shotgun? Thanks. Flanigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remo, SASS #17644 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Drop in a "recoil reducer". Brownells has them and they do work. "Dead Mule" comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 AA low noise low recoil shells, sometimes called Featherlights. Make sure stock is cut down to fit her exactly. Lengthen forcing cones in barrels. Add mercury recoil reducer in stock. Have someone teach her how to properly hold shotgun and stand to shoot it. Best recoil pad you can find. Add weight to stock in remaining space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You will get some great ideas on that. Here is a collection of info about the subject: Reducing Shotgun Recoil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 One problem with shooting light shotgun loads, if the targets don't go down you've gotta shoot them again. My wife use to shoot those light loads and is much happier shooting a little heavier load fewer times. Most SG targets go over easy, occasionally you'll find a tough one. Carry hotter loads in your cart just in case. LL' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Number4 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 FF, Load up some 45 gr BP loads with about 7/8 oz of shot, very mild and very spectacular, and about 50% recoil of field loads. Ol' #4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The shotgun, especially when it comes to ladies, HAS TO FIT. If it doesn't fit her, either to long or too short it is going to beat her to death, and she will not be happy. A sorbothane recoil pad. Teach her where to mount the gun (Have her put the butt on her bra strap) and keep her head on the stock. Women have a tendency to place the butt down on the arm. A TTN (Cimarron)shotgun with hammers is excellent if she cannot open a double. They are heavy and even a five year old can shoot them comfortably. A 97 properly fitted can be a joy for her to shoot. Because you are pushing the left hand forward it puts you into a more natural aggressive shooting position. Winchester AA Low Noise Low Recoil load or equivalent for ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The subject of shotguns for the ladies and youths comes up regularly so I've saved this reply. The first thing to look at doing is stock work to fit the shooter. The crook of the elbow to the trigger method is a good method for skeet and other games where the gun is already mounted and you don't have to work the action. Doesn't work well for what we do. What I've found for both but particularly for the ladies is the stock should be just long enough to allow the thumb of the trigger hand to be no closer than an 1" but not more than 3" from the shooters nose. Generally, if the stock is longer the crook of the elbow will be extended beyond 90% and because the ladies and youths generally don't have the upper body strength that men do and the ladies also have those protrusion there on their chest that can get in the way, so the gun will be too front heavy. When you see that new shooter leaning way back struggling to hold the gun up that is usually the reason why, the stock is just too long. Also the stocks on most of the CAS SXS guns are designed for aerial targets. When you point them toward the ground the positive toe of those stocks tends to dig into your shoulder when you fire. This will eventually cause the shooter to let the stock move down on shoulder which brings the front end up. Shot goes high. Savvy shooters will lean way into the shot but that usually doesn't’t work for the lady shooters. So, now that positive toe is nailing them. For the shotguns besides shortening the stock I like cut them so the pad is about 5 degrees negative. That helps take some of the felt recoil away shooting at our ground targets. Here’s a good example. This young lady was 11 years old when this picture was taken. This first pic is her with one of the youth size Henry 22’s and as you can see she is still struggling to hold it up. LOUISANA STAR'S RIFLE Here she is with a 12ga Baikal SXS that is cut to about 10”LOP with a mercury recoil reducer and good pad at about 5 degrees. Her stance isn’t that great but she is definitely in more control of the gun. LOUISANA STAR'S Shotgun Here’s another example of the short 5 degree stock. All though it's not a SXS it works even better for this is the clone of the Winchester 1887 leveraction shotgun. The shortened stock helps with the 87 really long lever throw. STOCK VERSION BEFORE THE CUT AFTER THE CUT AND PAD Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Nate's advice is dead on the money, and applies not just to lady shooters. A properly fitting shotgun can make the game enjoyable; an ill-fitting one makes for pain and frustration. I've found the 5 degree negative angle on the toe makes the biggest difference. Keeps the muzzle down, and oftentimes is enough to trim a stock down to the ideal length too. I've done all my shotguns using a power miter saw, and I check the angle off the barrels, not the comb of the stock. Or, she could switch to shooting BP - recoil with BP is more of a push than the sharp jab like you get with smokeless. And it's more fun too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crooked jake,4371 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 the more of an open choke .......the less the recoil also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Good advice here already. Get guns to fit HER. Don't just let her shoot whatever you got. That is one good way to make sure she stops shooting with you. If someone is going to have to make do with something that don't fit. Make sure that is YOU, and not HER. If momma is not happy. Then nobody is happy. Having your wife go shoot with you means more than I can say. So do whatever you need to, to make sure she is having a good time. And that means guns that SHE likes. In calibers and loads that SHE likes. With guns set up for HER. That are HERS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 All good advice so far, but the way she holds the shotgun is also important. Some just hold it up and rest it on the shoulder, pull the trigger and get the hell knocked out out of em. Get her to hold the shotgun TIGHT against her shoulder and lean in to it, no leaning back alloped here. Lean into the gun while holding it tight against the shoulder and when the gun fires, the body moves, not the gun smacking the shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailboss (Santa) Dave Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 A past recoil sheild from Midway will do wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 As a husband who's wife has went from never firing a gun to ten overall lady state wins in a 8 year span I can tell you without a doubt that she has to be comfortable. Don't make your caliber choices be her choices. It's far better to have them with you than without. You gotten some pretty good advice so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 AA low noise low recoil shells, sometimes called Featherlights. Make sure stock is cut down to fit her exactly. Lengthen forcing cones in barrels. Add mercury recoil reducer in stock. Have someone teach her how to properly hold shotgun and stand to shoot it. Best recoil pad you can find. Add weight to stock in remaining space. This is it, exactly! We started out with a 20 gauge, thinking that there would be less recoil. WRONG! Calico Cass kept coming away from matches all bruised up. We were advised to get a 12 gauge and use Winchester AA "Low Recoil, Low Noise" loads. THEY ARE GREAT!!!! Nothing else (in smokeless) compares. Of course, I got a shotgun just for her and cut it to fit and fitted a recoil pad. In cutting down the shotgun for women, one does not cut it parallel to the original shape. Cut it so that when the gun is standing on it's butt, it leans toward the underside of the shotgun by at least 10 to 15 degrees for a skinny woman, and up to 20 to 25 degrees for a very well endowed woman. This keeps the recoil from cutting into tender parts..... On Evil Roy's advice, I took a belt sander to the top corner of the recoil pad and rounded it's profile to a 1 1/2" radius (to keep it from catching on her clothes. That was about ten years ago. She has been ENJOYING the shotgun ever since, and has finished in the top 5 in Ladies' Frontier Cartridge for the past 3 years at EOT. And yes, get someone ELSE to show her how to shoot the shotgun properly. Calico shoots a Baikal Bounty Hunter II. Whatever else you do, she MUST HAVE HER OWN SHOTGUN. Buena suerte, eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 And yes, get someone ELSE to show her how to shoot the shotgun properly. By far the most important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 First step: AA Light shotgun shells. Fit is important, but typically the biggest problem is most start out with hot shotgun shells. It'll run a lady or a kid off in a hurry. Also, if you're not loading for those .38's, do it. I have yet to see a factory load, even a load classified as a cowboy load, that is not hotter than need be. Additionally, reloading cartridges is going to save money, especially with two shooters in the family. Whenever the subject comes up of recoil for a lady or a kid, I show , weighing 72 lbs, shooting a 97 (mine - not cut for her) but using a AA Light equivalent shell. Essentially it shows that just using the correct shell (and a Limbsaver grind-to-fit recoil pad) can make all the difference in the world. Dahlin' is almost 15 now and my gun with a 12.75" LOP now fits her well, but right after her first match I cut down a 97 to a bit over 10" LOP. It can be seen in made when she was 13 where you can see she also had graduated to using Momma's (Sugah) 66 Trapper in .38. There is one other thing that I recommend that in my opinion makes a world of difference: Reduce the noise associated with shooting. It is not uncommon for the report of the gun firing to be more of an intimidation to the new shooter than the recoil. They don't recognize that it is the noise that makes it seem so bad, instead they blame it on the recoil. I understand that everyone knows about hearing protection, but I'm saying to take it beyond the normal ear plugs. Ear plugs AND muffs allow the new shooter to realize that with proper loads, there basically is no recoil and for certain nothing stronger than a good handshake. And last but not least, find someone local to serve as a mentor. Someone who has been playing for a while can save a newbie a lot of "learning the hard way." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I got a chance to shoot one of Miss Cubbie's TTN's at Tejas Cabelleros last fall that was fitted by Gunstock Smith (hubby) with his mechanical recoil device. They are used all the time in skeet, sporting and trap guns to reduce felt recoil by installing a hidden device in the stock that slightly collapses when the gun recoils. Gunstock Smith is a permanent exhibitor at the National Sporting complex in San Antonio. Basically felt recoil goes away so much that you almost don't realize the gun went off except for that loud bang at the end. I have a really bad neck that caused me to give up most clay sport competition (the good news is that's how I found SASS). But, after 2,3,4 days of shooting I often can't even move my head for a couple of days. I'm going to 'bite the bullet' and have Gunstock cut my 2 original '78 Colts this year. Very impressive to say the least. And a nice butt wrap totally hides the device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Man Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Not advise for the ladies but my advise to a man would be to shoot a 460 Weatherby a couple hundred times and anyrhing else will be childsplay. It worked in my case. Texas Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Not advise for the ladies but my advise to a man would be to shoot a 460 Weatherby a couple hundred times and anyrhing else will be childsplay. It worked in my case. Texas Man That is a candidate for dumbest post of the month. That is like saying in order to learn to drive you have to total ten cars first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Church Key, SASS # 33713 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 The ultimate cure is a Bumpbuster recoil system by Ken Rucker in TX. He has a SASS-approved version that comes with a leather cover. They are expensive (about the price of a low-end Stoger), but well worth it. I have one on my BT-99 trap gun and can shoot all day with it using full 1-1/8 oz. trap loads. Before it, about 75 shots a day was my comfort limit. It also has an adjustable LOP, so can grow with a young shooter. His stock work is outstanding. I just realized that Ken Rucker is Gunstock Smith as noted by Brother King above. His site notes that he is currently shooting at Winter Range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flanigan Flats Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Thanks for all of the great posts and advice. My wifes name is now on our coachgun. I will obtain another for myself in the near future. I will incorporate as many of these suggestions as possible into her shotgun. Probably get it slicked as well. Thanks a bunch. Flanigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas SASS #80082 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Any downside filling the stock bore hole with #8 - #6 shot? The weight should serve as a very efficient recoil reducer. I'm worried a bit about lead dust. Although a thick plastic sheet gasket at the butt should take car of that. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Not advise for the ladies but my advise to a man would be to shoot a 460 Weatherby a couple hundred times and anyrhing else will be childsplay. It worked in my case. Texas Man Good way to develop a flinch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Cubbie Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Any downside filling the stock bore hole with #8 - #6 shot? The weight should serve as a very efficient recoil reducer. I'm worried a bit about lead dust. Although a thick plastic sheet gasket at the butt should take car of that. Thoughts? Not advisable!! You'd be better off with a solid piece of lead or brass bar stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas SASS #80082 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 And who has a 3/4" lead rod? Of course: Amazon. Thanks Ms. Cubbie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Not advisable!! You'd be better off with a solid piece of lead or brass bar stock. What is the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Any downside filling the stock bore hole with #8 - #6 shot? The weight should serve as a very efficient recoil reducer. I'm worried a bit about lead dust. Although a thick plastic sheet gasket at the butt should take car of that. Thoughts? In my daughters 97 - I cut it to fit her. Had the sorbothane recoil pad and was all ready to drop in a recoil reducer when I realized that in cuttting the stock, the diameter of hole in the stock got smaller the closer to the wrist and was now too small to insert the reducer. What to do, what to do? Hmm, I have all these jacketed bullets that I will never use sitting here on the loading bench - wonder how many will fit in this hole? I filled the remaining hole with jacketed bullets - tapping and feeding them in until they were tightly wedged. I cut a plastic spacer to keep them in the hole and put on the recoil pad. I also taught her proper shotgun mounting and an aggressive stance. She has been shooting this set up with Featherlights and has recently moved up to light target loads because she wanted a little more oomph - she has never complained about the recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Cubbie Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 What is the difference? The bar stock won't breakdown into lead dust. Please do your gunsmith a favor and never put lead shot in your gunstock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Cubbie Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 And who has a 3/4" lead rod? Of course: Amazon. Thanks Ms. Cubbie! Anytime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Please keep in mind that a lot of shotgun "target" ammunition is intended to break clay birds on a trap and skeet range and even if marked "light target" may actually have more recoil than some field loads. In 12 Ga, look for Winchester "low noise, low recoil." For 20 Ga, look for Fiocchi "Trainer." they are the only light 20 Ga loads I have found. I probably miss spelled Fiocchi. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I'm smiling because most don't realize this thread is from February and they're answering the original post instead of the recent question. Of course by now the latest question has been answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Years ago I replaced the barrel of my m1a with a heavy tgt barrel. That made the rifle muzzel heavy. A friend squarred me away with a lead slug. In a pinch one could take a 2x2 drill a 3/4 or 11/16 hole of proper depth to serve as a mold and cast your own lead stock slug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chaps, SASS #5925 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I made a stock weight the cheap way: I filled a cigar tube with lead shot and sealed it, dropped a rubber cork stopper into the stock hole, dropped in the lead-filled tube and topped it off with another rubber stopper - then reinstalled the Sorbothane buttpad. The rubber stoppers have some "give". Works great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Agate Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 FF, Load up some 45 gr BP loads with about 7/8 oz of shot, very mild and very spectacular, and about 50% recoil of field loads. Ol' #4 +1 And you can start shooting Frontier Cartridge gunfighter!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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