Bison Bud Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 First off, congratulations to all those that participated and especially the category winners at the 2023 "End Of Trail" World Championship! However, I have to wonder if it wouldn't be better to hold this championship later on in the season. Most folks are just now getting out and getting tuned up for another season. Why have the World Championship before everyone is well into the season and performing at their best, rather than just coming out of their winter period of reduced shooting activity? I know it's not my call here, but at least in my opinion it would make real sense to hold this match in say September or early October and it is called "End of Trail," which should indicate a winding down of the season rather than the startup. I guess it's not really a big deal, but how do others feel about this early in the season championship schedule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Sackett SASS 18436 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 I reckon that it has mostly to do with the location there in Phoenix! Do you think it would be better to hold it in July there in the dessert? Winter Range was always in February for a reason, I’m sure. When the Arizona club was chosen to host EOT they had to go with the dictates of the climate, most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Not to mention that Land Run, the national championship, is already in October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley D Austin Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Weather wise April would be a better month. March in AZ is prone to cold weather, wind storms, snow and rain. April is milder, but not yet hot like mid May to mid Oct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Sheridan Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 The sport continues year round in different parts of the country. No matter what time of year you put it the shoot will be at the beginning of someone’s season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 There are 160+ different groups that utilize Ben Avery shooting range and the dates that they have for EOT are pretty much set in stone because the range is in use pretty much full time by these other groups. Maybe Larsen Pettifogger or others in the know about the range will chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 hours ago, Bison Bud said: …, but how do others feel about this early in the season championship schedule? I feel that they prioritize when the majority can attend and the availability of the range to choose a date. As hard as it may be for some to believe the universe doesn’t revolve around SASS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 15 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said: I feel that they prioritize when the majority can attend and the availability of the range to choose a date. As hard as it may be for some to believe the universe doesn’t revolve around SASS. What??? Surely you jest!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 minutes ago, Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 said: What??? Surely you jest!!! Right after I clicked the “Submit Reply” button a bolt of lightening from Akron Indiana struck. My hair is now curlier than Shirley Temple’s, my right arm is hanging limp by my side and I can’t find one of my testicals. Obvious my “savings” on becoming a Life Member is in great jeopardy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Show Joe Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 49 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said: I feel that they prioritize when the majority can attend and the availability of the range to choose a date. As hard as it may be for some to believe the universe doesn’t revolve around SASS. I Don’t need that kind of negativity in my life.. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 28 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said: Right after I clicked the “Submit Reply” button a bolt of lightening from Akron Indiana struck. My hair is now curlier than Shirley Temple’s, my right arm is hanging limp by my side and I can’t find one of my testicals. Obvious my “savings” on becoming a Life Member is in great jeopardy Now that right there is just plain funny. I don't care who you are, it's chuckle worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Sheridan Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 6 hours ago, Yul Lose said: There are 160+ different groups that utilize Ben Avery shooting range and the dates that they have for EOT are pretty much set in stone because the range is in use pretty much full time by these other groups. Maybe Larsen Pettifogger or others in the know about the range will chime in. Pretty accurate. The dates have to be set over a year in advance. I just went by the range this morning, and the majority of the bays that were used for EOT were filled with other groups enjoying their aspects of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthwestShooter Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 7 hours ago, Yul Lose said: There are 160+ different groups that utilize Ben Avery shooting range and the dates that they have for EOT are pretty much set in stone because the range is in use pretty much full time by these other groups. Maybe Larsen Pettifogger or others in the know about the range will chime in. you hit the nail on the gead....actually that's a primary reason, range availability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinch Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 If you don’t like the world championship being held when half the country is still frozen then don’t go! I didn’t. Still -10 where I am at night, so still have ammo to shoot somewhere. The good thing is CAS muscle memory should return after 6-8 stages so if you do go you can make those last 4 really count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Why is EOT held so early in the season? There are a variety of reasons WR/EOT takes place in February/March. First "early in the season" depends on where you are. Here in the southwest this time of year is the middle of the shooting season. June, July and August are the off-season because of the heat. Years ago there was "End of Trail" which was a summer or early spring shoot. "Winter Range" was the winter shoot in an area of the country where winter shooting can take place. When EOT was still in California many of the matches were in April, so Winter Range could not be around that date. When EOT moved to New Mexico April was too cold in the hills where Founders Ranch was located so they moved the date to June. Now that Winter Range has been retired and the Rough Riders are now hosting EOT no matter what dates are chosen there are potential conflicts. March or April? Spring break or Easter. July or August, it is 110 degrees. For many years the WR dates were set to accomodate the vendors coming from the Shot Show. In general the weather in Phoenix at the end of February and the beginning of March is high 60s or low 70s. Perfect weather for shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Many of the "snow birds" are in AZ in the winter which helps with attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Davey Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 The World Championship should be a challenge, not just a sunny day match but can you shoot in rain, sleet, mud and heat. Welcome to Winter in Phoenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 I get what the OP is saying, it's called The End of Trail and it should be toward the end of the year. October would be perfect. Move Land run to another month! Not rocket science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 7 hours ago, Navy Davey said: The World Championship should be a challenge, not just a sunny day match but can you shoot in rain, sleet, mud and heat. Welcome to Winter in Phoenix I could do without those kind of challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc roy l. pain Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 11 hours ago, Assassin said: Many of the "snow birds" are in AZ in the winter which helps with attendance. That hits the nail on the head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Pete SASS #42168 Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Regardless of whether it is EOT or WR or whatever, it is a great shoot that I try to attend most years. I only have one big shoot in the budget and this is it. So, call it what you want, this is where I am shooting in February. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinch Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 It's a great shoot. Great vendors. A lot of work taken on and done very well. I understand that the people in Phoenix only come out at night to avoid the heat they have chosen to live in, but it's early in the year for everyone in Rhode Island, Minnesota and Montana. Realizing that the bulk of contestants are from warmer areas where they are but a fraction of the total population (2 shooters from a town of 25 is a better ratio so they shouldn't be dismissed) they have more stroke. This is the problem with a democracy. But it's still early for a worldwide event. Maybe instead of the world championship it could be the Mason Dixon Black Canyon Equator Championship? Start of Trail? The Ben Avery Early 2023 Meet in Scottsdale for Drinks World Grudge Match. I really like the Grudge Match. Like they say on Rez... grandma already been talked out of her allotments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 On 3/7/2023 at 7:21 AM, Ashley D Austin said: Weather wise April would be a better month. March in AZ is prone to cold weather, wind storms, snow and rain. April is milder, but not yet hot like mid May to mid Oct. An end of February early March 40 Degree day in AZ is about 60 Degrees warmer than a lot of the rest of the country at that time. Born and Raised in Montana I know this to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 On 3/8/2023 at 8:05 AM, Rye Miles #13621 said: …Move Land run to another month! Not rocket science! Oh thanks a lot! Inconvenience others to satisfy the minority! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Matthew Duncan said: Oh thanks a lot! Inconvenience others to satisfy the minority! How would that inconvenience anyone if they knew a year ahead of time? The National championship before the World championship makes more sense to me even though I've never been to either but that doesn't mean I won't go someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 On 3/8/2023 at 7:05 AM, Rye Miles #13621 said: I get what the OP is saying, it's called The End of Trail and it should be toward the end of the year. October would be perfect. Move Land run to another month! Not rocket science! Land Run is tied to the Cowboy Hall of Fame. It isn't as simple as saying "just move it to another month." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 4 minutes ago, Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372 said: Land Run is tied to the Cowboy Hall of Fame. It isn't as simple as saying "just move it to another month." What does the Cowboy Hall of Fame have to do with it, serious question I'm not trying to be a smart %^$. Educate me please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: What does the Cowboy Hall of Fame have to do with it, serious question I'm not trying to be a smart %^$. Educate me please! It is where they have the banquet and awards ceremony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 11 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: It is where they have the banquet and awards ceremony. So they would have to co-ordinate with them. I get it. Unless I'm wrong SASS probably pays for it so money talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Sean O Driscoll Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 I have never been but I like the idea of having it in a warm area in the winter. Gives me a chance to get out of the frozen waist-land that is Idaho in the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Kid, SASS #54030 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Just move EOT to wherever the SASS HQ is, and bring back the national championship (WR) to Phoenix. Swiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 11 minutes ago, Swiss Kid, SASS #54030 said: Just move EOT to wherever the SASS HQ is, and bring back the national championship (WR) to Phoenix. Swiss Akron, Indiana where SASS is now located. Great idea!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 There is no place that the weather can't be bad and out of the norm. Yes, the weather was bad for a few days. Name a place it can't happen. Odds are, the weather in Arizona is going to be more temperate than other locations. In Indiana tornados and torrential rain can be a huge issue. It can be grey and rain for weeks on end. I know as I lived there for 26 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 40 minutes ago, Cholla said: There is no place that the weather can't be bad and out of the norm. Yes, the weather was bad for a few days. Name a place it can't happen. Odds are, the weather in Arizona is going to be more temperate than other locations. In Indiana tornados and torrential rain can be a huge issue. It can be grey and rain for weeks on end. I know as I lived there for 26 years. If EOT was in Indiana in Sept it wouldn’t be too bad, I live next door in Ohio and September is usually pretty nice. The National championship could be in Arizona in March, just MHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 6 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: If EOT was in Indiana in Sept it wouldn’t be too bad, I live next door in Ohio and September is usually pretty nice. The National championship could be in Arizona in March, just MHO. Three more years on the current EOT contract….. Summer would be better for kids competing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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