Titegroup load

[Captain Bill Burt]

My 11+ year run with Clays is coming to an end.  It's just too hard to find and too expensive when I do find it.  Right now all I can find are 14 oz jugs at $50+ each.   So, I went to the Hodgdon website and purchased two 8 lb jugs of Titegroup for $560 shipped, which didn't seem too bad.

 

I'll be reloading 12 gauge on a Ponsness using whatever 209s I have handy (Federals right now) 1 oz pink Claybuster wads and Remington GC hulls.  I plan to load shotgun with Titegroup and switch .32 and .38 over when I run out of Clays. 

 

Anyone have a good 12 gauge load and/or 38 special/32 H&R?  

 

For 38 special I use 125 bullets and for .32 H&R I use 95, sometimes 105.   The website lists 3.2-3.8 grains for .38 special.  2.8-3.3 grains for JHP 100 grain 32 H&R, and 12 gauge varies from a low of 16 grains to a high of 20.5.

 

Edited August 31 by Captain Bill Burt

[John E. Law]

I run 2.8grs with a 38 100gn DEWC. I run clays for my 125gn TCFP rifle round but I do have a recipe if I run out of 3.2grs, but I haven't tried loading that in over 10 years. I do remember it running just fine in my lever guns. 

 

I've been looking for a recipe for Titegroup and 12ga but have been told going down that low for CAS is problematic due to the grain being so tiny and not getting an efficient burn. I have not tried any 12ga CAS loads with TG but if someone had of also be curious of their results. 

 

JEL

 

I developed these loads over 14 years ago, but IIRC the 100gn, through a 4 5/8" ruger, was 720fps and the 125gn, through a 20" 1873 at around 825fps.

Edited August 31 by John E. Law

[Snakebite Dust SASS 75484]

I got lucky and found Clays at a local shop a few weeks back for $33.00 each. Limit of three and I bought three. I checked a lot of places and this was the first time I had seen it in a long time.

[Captain Bill Burt]

Hodgdon is showing 1180 fps with 16.3 grains, 1 oz of shot, WA12SL Wad and Win 209 primer.  So I guess I'll start at 16.2 and see how it works.

[Eyesa Horg]

Check with Scarlett for "Clean shot"

[Eyesa Horg]

1 minute ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Hodgdon is showing 1180 fps with 16.3 grains, 1 oz of shot, WA12SL Wad and Win 209 primer.  So I guess I'll start at 16.2 and see how it works.

I'd be inclined to try around 14gr.  for a 7/8oz. Load.

[Captain Bill Burt]

I'll probably stick with a 1 oz load, but I may start a bit lower.  Curious to hear what other's have done. 

[Krazy Kajun]

Evil Bob and Will E Shoot both use Titegroup for their cartridge cowboy loads.  The mention of Clean Shot from Scarlett is a pretty good one, AFAIK she can get Clean Shot powder and has recipes for both SG and cowboy cartridge loading using that powder.

 

Kajun

[Rye Miles #13621]

I use 3.6 grs of TiteGroup under a 125 gr bullet, 

16 grs of Clays in a 12 gauge with 1 oz of shot

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Capt BB,  here is my choreographed results and comments from testing TiteGroup in the .32 H&R.

 

2.6 grains.         20" Marlin

 

Five shot averages:

78 grain bullet:  1047

100 grain bullet:  1020

 

YES, I used the same powder charge for all bullet weights when doing my test.

 

TiteGroup was VERY CLEAN and Accurate.

 

Sorri, I don't have any chrono results from pistols.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

[Ranger Dan]

I use 3.0 gr titegroup, 125 gr bullets. has enough to knock down plates and the Mrs doesn't complain about recoil.

 

Tried a light 13-14 gr load for 12g. Did not go well, cold temps caused delayed ignition, shot fine in warmer temps. Flames out the ejection port of my 97.

[Montie Montana]

I shoot Titegroup and use 3.2 gr with a 125 gr bullet for both my pistol and rifle that is .38.

  

[Jackalope]

My ten-shot chrono data for .32 H&R Magnum with 2.5 gr Titegroup, Fed SP primer, and 100 gr SWC from Ruger Single Six handgun:

 

Hi   846

Lo   818

Av   833

ES   28

SD   9

[Dusty Devil Dale]

3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

My 11+ year run with Clays is coming to an end.  It's just too hard to find and too expensive when I do find it.  Right now all I can find are 14 oz jugs at $50+ each.   So, I went to the Hodgdon website and purchased two 8 lb jugs of Titegroup for $560 shipped, which didn't seem too bad.

 

I'll be reloading 12 gauge on a Ponsness using whatever 209s I have handy (Federals right now) 1 oz pink Claybuster wads and Remington GC hulls.  I plan to load shotgun with Titegroup and switch .32 and .38 over when I run out of Clays. 

 

Anyone have a good 12 gauge load and/or 38 special/32 H&R?  

 

For 38 special I use 125 bullets and for .32 H&R I use 95, sometimes 105.   The website lists 3.2-3.8 grains for .38 special.  2.8-3.3 grains for JHP 100 grain 32 H&R, and 12 gauge varies from a low of 16 grains to a high of 20.5.

 

I use Extralite and Red Dot for shotgun, so I dont have a Titegroup load.

 

I normally shoot .38 sp 105gn in pistols, 130gn in rifle.  3.2 gn of Titegroup gets both of them about 10% above required power factor with my 4-3/4" pistol and 20" rifle barrels.  

My wife, Misty Q, shoots .32 H&R mag in her Single Six revolvers with 5" barrels.  2.4gn of Titegroup gets he 78gn bullets up to 66 PF and her 95 gn up to 68.   Neither cartridge has had problems with KD targets. 

 

Hope that gives you at least a starting point to work from.  

[Captain Bill Burt]

18 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

I use Extralite and Red Dot for shotgun, so I dont have a Titegroup load.

 

I normally shoot .38 sp 105gn in pistols, 130gn in rifle.  3.2 gn of Titegroup gets both of them about 10% above required power factor with my 4-3/4" pistol and 20" rifle barrels.  

My wife, Misty Q, shoots .32 H&R mag in her Single Six revolvers with 5" barrels.  2.4gn of Titegroup gets he 78gn bullets up to 66 PF and her 95 gn up to 68.   Neither cartridge has had problems with KD targets. 

 

Hope that gives you at least a starting point to work from.  

That's very helpful!  Thanks!

 

3 hours ago, Krazy Kajun said:

Evil Bob and Will E Shoot both use Titegroup for their cartridge cowboy loads.  The mention of Clean Shot from Scarlett is a pretty good one, AFAIK she can get Clean Shot powder and has recipes for both SG and cowboy cartridge loading using that powder.

 

Kajun

I appreciate that Kajun.  I reckon I'll need to shoot up the 16 pounds of Titegroup first.  That'll take about a year.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

I'm one of several that had trouble with squibs using light loads of Titegroup.  I won't go below 3.8 grains so that's a little hot.

 

If it works for you as it does for many, great!

 

Just load some first and test them to be sure.

[McCandless]

5 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

for .32 H&R I use 95, sometimes 105

 Capt Bill,

What was your Clays load for .32 H&R?  

 

Thanks!

[Captain Bill Burt]

16 minutes ago, McCandless said:

 Capt Bill,

What was your Clays load for .32 H&R?  

 

Thanks!

2.3

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I've been using Titegroup for all my pistol loading for 15 years.  It's not position or temperature sensitive.  My load for 38's using a 125 gr bullet is 3.0 grains.  Never have a problem with knockdowns.  I use to load them at 2.8 grains without a problem but I like to feel a little recoil in my pistols.  Lets me know it's gone off.    I have not reloaded 12 gauge with Titegroup yet but it can be used. 

 

On a side note, I quit using Clays for pistol loading because I was getting a lot of unburned powder flakes when I down loaded the rounds.  I still use it for shotgun reloads.   

[John E. Law]

3 hours ago, Ranger Dan said:

I use 3.0 gr titegroup, 125 gr bullets. has enough to knock down plates and the Mrs doesn't complain about recoil.

 

Tried a light 13-14 gr load for 12g. Did not go well, cold temps caused delayed ignition, shot fine in warmer temps. Flames out the ejection port of my 97.

This is exactly what I was told when I inquired about a CAS load using Titegroup.  I live in Florida so I figured I'd give it a try but haven't gotten around to it yet. 

 

2 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

I normally shoot .38 sp 105gn in pistols, 130gn in rifle.  3.2 gn of Titegroup gets both of them about 10% above required power factor with my 4-3/4" pistol and 20" rifle barrels.  

Neither cartridge has had problems with KD targets. 

I run 2.8gns with a 100gn DEWC and a federal mag primer.  I just checked my old load data. I ran 5 separate 10 shot strings, in Florida summer heat,  and averaged 728fps with a max deviation of 12 fps. It was extremely consistent which is why I still use it today. Just guesstamating but 3.2 @ 105 has to put those at around 900-950. That's almost a 100 PF, well more than 10%. Hey, shoot what you like, but that seems kinda stiff for me and this game IMHO.

 

JEL

Edited August 31 by John E. Law

[John E. Law]

2 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

I'm one of several that had trouble with squibs using light loads of Titegroup.  I won't go below 3.8 grains so that's a little hot.

 

If it works for you as it does for many, great!

 

Just load some first and test them to be sure.

Try the 100gn DEWC and a mag primer. That little trashcan looking bullet fills over 1/3rd of the case. I've never once had an issue. It's very clean and extremely consistent. 

 

JEL

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

I started as a one powder loader with Clays in both cartridges and shot guns. Love Clays in shotgun to this day. Found with light loads of Clays in cold temperature Clays was somewhat erratic in pistols. Switched to TiteGroup in cartridges saved the Clays for shotgun. Use 3.2 grains with a magnum primer in both pistols and rifle. 125 grain TC in pistols, 147 grain in rifle. Have had both down to 2.8 grains but the 3.2 will handle the occasional knock down better with either gun. Use magnum primer because that was what was available and have never bothered to go back to a standard primer. 
Regards

    

Gateway Kid

BTW with a 2.8 grain TiteGroup/magnum primer combination I have never had a squib, only upped the charge because some steel didn’t ring well and I could use same powder setting in both rifle & pistol. 

Edited August 31 by Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life
Addressed possible squib

[Lightning McCampbell]

I have a question for the group. I'm new to CAS and have just started reloading. I've tried loading 38's with 3.4gn of Tite Group with 105gn bullet from Scarlet with CAOL of 1.450 and it left lots of powder residue. So my question is when using small loads do you guys use Magnum primers?

PS I have the same issue with Clean Shot

[Cassalong Hopidy]

Capt. Bill

In .38 I use 3.2 gr of TG behind 105 gr bullet in pistols and same with 120 gr bullet in rifle. I shoot Clays in shotgun.

 

Cass

 

 

 

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

5 minutes ago, Lightning McCampbell said:

I have a question for the group. I'm new to CAS and have just started reloading. I've tried loading 38's with 3.4gn of Tite Group with 105gn bullet from Scarlet with CAOL of 1.450 and it left lots of powder residue. So my question is when using small loads do you guys use Magnum primers?

PS I have the same issue with Clean Shot

As I have said in other posts I use magnum primers because during the community organizer days that was all that was available. Too lazy to change from magnum to standard with the seasons. Pretty sure as I used up the few standards I had that they worked fine as well but that was a while ago so don’t really remember. Today I don’t have issues with unburnt powder at either 2.8 or 3.2 grains with magnum primer. 
Regards and good shooting 

    

Gateway Kid

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

30 minutes ago, Lightning McCampbell said:

I have a question for the group. I'm new to CAS and have just started reloading. I've tried loading 38's with 3.4gn of Tite Group with 105gn bullet from Scarlet with CAOL of 1.450 and it left lots of powder residue. So my question is when using small loads do you guys use Magnum primers?

PS I have the same issue with Clean Shot

Make sure you have a good firm roll crimp.

[Sinola Kid]

32 magnum case with 95-100 bullet I use 2.7 grains of titegroup.  My son prefers 2.9 grains for a bit more pop.  He shot them for his first few years.  

[Bison Bud]

Titegroup is great in large cartridge cases with empty space left in them, but at least to me it is primarily a rifle/handgun powder.  However, Hodgden apparently lists some shotshell data for Titegroup and I guess it could be used in that application.  However, Titegroup is well known for a very sharp report and recoil impulse and trying to load lighter recoil shotshells may prove to be difficult.  Frankly, I think there are much better propellants for this purpose, but these days you pretty much have to use whatever you can get!  I have a Marlin Carbine that really needs .357 loads to cycle reliably and I love the stuff in those cases.  I generally load 3 grains under a 140 grain pill made from an RCBS Cowboy mold, which gives me just under 1000 fps out of the 20'' barrel.  The load is very consistent over my chronograph with single digit standard deviation, it doesn't seem to be position sensitive, I've had no cold weather issues whatsoever, and this load has proven to be very accurate as well.  In the right application Titegroup is one of my favorite propellants, but I think I'd take a pass when it comes to loading shotshells with it.  If Clays is hard to find and/or too pricey, you might try Alliant's Clay Dot powder as it is made to provide similar results.  It's not exactly the same, but it does indeed work well.  Good luck and good shooting to all.    

[Fretless]

I've been loading titegroup in my 12 guage since January. 

I use federal topgun hulls.  That's a straight wall hull with a slightly higher internal volume.  Anything from 14.5 - 15 grains yields a consistent smooth feeling load.  That's with a CB 6100 wad.

I have also loaded AA hulls with titegroup.  That's a tapered hull.  With the tapered hulls 14 grains was fine.  Even down to 13.5 was fine.  I was using the CB lightning wads in those.  I don't know the number off hand.

Edited September 1 by Fretless
Added info

[Fretless]

You might check with Yohan.  I know he was loading titegroup in his shotgun shells.

[John E. Law]

One thing I and others have found with TiteGroup. You really should use one of those vibrating devices on the powder hopper, a small fish tank pump works great. TiteGroup doesn't cascade well down through the hopper and will cling/clump together and the next thing you know you have loads with little to no powder. My tool heads that I have for my Dillons that ALWAYS have a powder check system on them are the ones I'm running TiteGroup in They are checked before any loading session....Always! Don't ask me why and how I know this.

 

JEL 

 

33 minutes ago, Fretless said:

I've been loading titegroup in my 12 guage since January. 

I use federal topgun hulls.  That's a straight wall hull with a slightly higher internal volume.  Anything from 14.5 - 15 grains yields a consistent smooth feeling load.  That's with a CB 6100 wad.

I have also loaded AA hulls with titegroup.  That's a tapered hull.  With the tapered hulls 14 grains was fine.  Even down to 13.5 was fine.  I was using the CB lightning wads in those.  I don't know the number off hand.

It's the Claybuster CB410012B

 

Thanks for this info. I will try this just to see how it works.

 

JEL

[Fretless]

2 minutes ago, John E. Law said:

 

Thanks for this info. I will try this just to see how it works.

In the topgun hulls I am adding 1 CC of dry rice as a filler in the shot cup in order to get a good crimp.  YMMV

 

That was not an issue with the AA hulls

[Renegade Plowboy]

12 ga 1 oz loads with Titegroup for trap 16.5-16.7 grn in a red AA Hull with pink claybuster wad works extremely well and is clean, and is pretty light feeling recoil in that sport.  Works well for CAS also.  I tried dropping down to 14 grn for CAS and it got dirty, and recoil seemed pretty similar to the higher load. So I just use that same load for both trap and CAS when using that powder. That’s Mom’s preferred trap load also when she shoots. 

 

38 special with 125 grn FPTC coated bullets 3.2-3.4 Titegroup. My pistols and mixed headstamp brass seem work more consistently when I’m shooting for the 3.3 grn (drop varies from 3.2-3.4) verses trying to drop 3.0 grns (2.9-3.1 grn variation). Same load shot through pistols and rifle, plenty to take down both pistol and rifle knockdowns without any doubt.  

Edited September 1 by Renegade Plowboy
Additional info.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

52 minutes ago, John E. Law said:

One thing I and others have found with TiteGroup. You really should use one of those vibrating devices on the powder hopper, a small fish tank pump works great. TiteGroup doesn't cascade well down through the hopper and will cling/clump together and the next thing you know you have loads with little to no powder. My tool heads that I have for my Dillons that ALWAYS have a powder check system on them are the ones I'm running TiteGroup in They are checked before any loading session....Always! Don't ask me why and how I know this.

 

JEL 

 

It's the Claybuster CB410012B

 

Thanks for this info. I will try this just to see how it works.

 

JEL

Dang that humidity

Time for you to migrate north and west to the high desert of Colorado where our humidity is generally pretty low and unless you leave powder in the hopper for a few weeks/months clumping is very unusual. I don't use the pump trick or ground wire and the only time Titegroup sticks to the hopper sides is after a session of 1000 plus when I put it back into the jug.

We could certainly use a shooter/LEO of your abilities and would welcome you with open arms.

Regards

   

Gateway Kid

[Captain Bill Burt]

As expected there is a lot of useful knowledge in the SASS community. Thanks to all who responded including those who sent me PMs!