You are going to Africa

[Alpo]

It's about 1920. You're going to British East Africa. Kenya, Nairobi, Tsavo.

 

You are not planning on going on Safari after the big five. You are not going to shoot elephant or cape buffalo. But, you're going to Africa. You're taking a gun. A gun, not a battery.

 

The gun the lady (this is the first of the Jade del Cameron novels) has taken is a Winchester. That is mentioned several times. A little later, when she shoots a hyena that a witch has been directing, she "levered in" a second shot, so it's a lever gun, not a bolt.

 

But so far it has not been more clearly identified. And it got me thinking.

 

So you are going to Africa and you are taking one rifle and it is a lever action Winchester. Be a little more specific. What model? Rifle or carbine? What cartridge?

 

What would you take?

 

I'm thinking I would take a Model 95 carbine in 30 US. That would not necessarily be the best cartridge, but I like it.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

A 95, yes.

[Alpo]

I'm two chapters further along, and she's cleaning her gun, and it's a 38/55, so I'm going to SWAG it's a 94.

 

 

 

Well, if you can believe wiki, Winchester only chambered it in the 94, so I guess that wasn't much of a guess.

 

 

 

Next chapter.

 

>“Miss del Cameron is a crack shot, Rog,” said Harry. “She killed a hyena yesterday with a Winchester .38. Same weapon Roosevelt used when he came through here.” 

 

“No,” corrected Roger before Jade could reply. “Mr. Roosevelt’s Winchester took a .406 caliber cartridge.” 

 

“Exactly,” said Jade, impressed by his knowledge. “And I have a model 94, not a 95. But how did you know about President Roosevelt’s rifle?”<

[Pat Riot]

5 hours ago, Alpo said:

So you are going to Africa and you are taking one rifle and it is a lever action Winchester. Be a little more specific. What model? Rifle or carbine? What cartridge?

 

What would you take?

 

Well, in 1920 if I we’re going to Africa I would take Teddy’s “Big Medicine”. 1895 Winchester chambered for .405 Winchester. I would probably pick that even if the options were other gun actions available at that time. 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

13 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

 

Well, in 1920 if I we’re going to Africa I would take Teddy’s “Big Medicine”. 1895 Winchester chambered for .405 Winchester. I would probably pick that even if the options were other gun actions available at that time. 

 

This. ^^^^^

 

..........Widder

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

 

Well, in 1920 if I we’re going to Africa I would take Teddy’s “Big Medicine”. 1895 Winchester chambered for .405 Winchester. I would probably pick that even if the options were other gun actions available at that time. 

Good choice! 

[DocWard]

1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

 

Well, in 1920 if I we’re going to Africa I would take Teddy’s “Big Medicine”. 1895 Winchester chambered for .405 Winchester. I would probably pick that even if the options were other gun actions available at that time. 

 

Agreed. Who am I to disagree with T.R.? The man's been dead over 100 years and I'm still afraid of him.

[Alpo]

I wonder when Winchester dropped the 18 from their rifles' nomenclature?

 

As I said this is taking place in 1920, and she referred to her rifle as a 94 and Roosevelt's as a 95. Not an 1894 and an 1895.

[Rip Snorter]

Polymath though TR was, both his own and contemporary reports characterized him as an average shot.  The 375 H&H and 416 Rigby had been out and proven for a good many years by 1920, as had a variety of other notable big game cartridges.  Though the 405 was the most powerful rimmed lever action cartridge and the 1895 could safely use pointed bullets, it was not a particularly good choice for Africa. 

[Alpo]

The 375 Holland and Holland, and the 416 Rigby, are both British.

 

Maybe Theodore was all about "buy American". As I recall his African battery seem to be mostly Winchester and Springfield rifles.

[Tom Bullweed]

Win 1886 in .33 Winchester would have been another possibility...

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

95 in .30-40 Krag. Camp meat.

[Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485]

5 hours ago, Alpo said:

I wonder when Winchester dropped the 18 from their rifles' nomenclature?

 

As I said this is taking place in 1920, and she referred to her rifle as a 94 and Roosevelt's as a 95. Not an 1894 and an 1895.

All models were changed over in 1919/ 1920, I have an 1894 marked gun made in 1915. I suspect most people shortened it to '94 long before Winchester did. If I had to take a lever gun, I'd want a '94 trapper in 25-35, I think that would make a great camp gun. If it was any gun I'd want a Mauser in 7mm.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

I already have a browning 1895 in .30 U. S. Krag.  I think that would be the one to take along.

 

I also have a Browning 1885 in .45-70, but it's so HEAVY.

[Alpo]

While the lady did not take one, it seems quite foolish to not take a pistol.

 

If you took a pistol, what would you take?

 

Remember - 1920. Magnums did not exist. No 357, no 44, no 41. While 44 Special was certainly available, it had the same ballistics as a 44 Russian - 246 grain pointed lead bullet at about 700 feet per second.

 

I'm not a fan of Colt double actions. Don't like the grip shape. So I believe that I would take a 44 Hand Ejector second model, in 45 Colt. They did make a few in that cartridge. If I could not find one in 45 Colt, I would get a surplus 1917 Smith.

 

Being we are in British East Africa, British ammunition should be quite easily available, but I would wish to bring enough of my own that I did not have to resupply from the locals. And British pistol ammo seems to be a little - puny. 38/200, 455 Webley. Neither would be my choice on the frontier.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

1917 S&W or a 5 1/2" SAA in .45.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674]

6 minutes ago, Alpo said:

While the lady did not take one, it seems quite foolish to not take a pistol.

 

If you took a pistol, what would you take?

 

Remember - 1920. Magnums did not exist. No 357, no 44, no 41. While 44 Special was certainly available, it had the same ballistics as a 44 Russian - 246 grain pointed lead bullet at about 700 feet per second.

 

I'm not a fan of Colt double actions. Don't like the grip shape. So I believe that I would take a 44 Hand Ejector second model, in 45 Colt. They did make a few in that cartridge. If I could not find one in 45 Colt, I would get a surplus 1917 Smith.

 

Being we are in British East Africa, British ammunition should be quite easily available, but I would wish to bring enough of my own that I did not have to resupply from the locals. And British pistol ammo seems to be a little - puny. 38/200, 455 Webley. Neither would be my choice on the frontier.

C96 with shoulder stock holster.

[Rip Snorter]

There was a Nitro Express Derringer, 2 barrels, 270 foot pounds of recoil per shot.  Billed as an emergency measure for Africa just after the turn of the century.

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

.375 H&H

JHC

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

My dad, born in 1922 and died 2001, went on a safari in Uganda in 1970. He shot a bush elephant, a wild forest hog, a waterbuck, and another antelope or two. It was a fully-guided old-style British East Africa hunt.

 

The interesting thing is that he was only a bird hunter; pheasants, ducks, and geese. He was never a deer hunter or any other mammalian big game, before or after that safari. He remained a bird hunter 'til the season before he died. (He was an adventurous sort, and died at 79 in Bogota Colombia, but that's another story.)

 

He was of the generation that extolled Hemingway, Ruark, and others of that ilk, and as far as I know he had it in his blood for one time only; a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I know he used a Sako rifle. I'll find out from one of my brothers what the caliber was.

 

A few years  back, somebody stole the head of that hog from over the fireplace in our beach cabin. We still hope to hear he's been found and hanged.

[Alpo]

33 minutes ago, Capt. James H. Callahan said:

.375 H&H

JHC

Was unaware they made a Winchester lever action in 375 H&H. What model was that?

[Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674]

I have heard of 95s being converted to 9.3x62 Mauser, but of course that would be unlikely in 1920. 
 

While TR really liked the 95 in .405 he acknowledged that it was mainly for light skinned game like lions. For thick skinned game like  Cape buffalo, rhino and elephant, he used a double rifle in either .470 or .500 NE. The bullet design of what was available for the .405 did not allow for deep penetration.

[Wallaby Damned]

I’d be taking my 76’ 50-95 and a whole pile of shells, some solid, some HP. 

[July Smith]

A 1895 in 405 or an 1886 in 45-70.

[Texas Joker]

10ga 1897.

 

Versatile

[Dutch Coroner]

1886 carbine in 45-70. 
 

SAA 5 1/2 in 45 or maybe a 1911

[Alpo]

2 hours ago, Texas Joker said:

10ga 1897.

 

Versatile

Bzzzzzz. Disqualified, on three points.

 

1897 is a pump not a lever. 1897 was not made in 10 gauge. The rules of this game said rifle, not shotgun.

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

On 8/19/2022 at 9:51 PM, Alpo said:

Was unaware they made a Winchester lever action in 375 H&H. What model was that?

Missed that part of the rules. Sorry. I'd still rather have the .375

JHC

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

 

On 8/19/2022 at 1:07 AM, Alpo said:

 

So you are going to Africa and you are taking one rifle and it is a lever action Winchester. Be a little more specific. What model? Rifle or carbine? What cartridge?

 

What would you take?

Traditional gun, unmolested- authentic early 20th century, an 1895  in 30-06, or one in 35 Winchester.

Another “lever action Winchester” I might consider is an 1885 High Wall in 405 or 45-90.

 

My first choice and for something a little different, and maybe not around in early 20th century, but certainly available today, and applicable to any African game, an 1895 rebored/rebarreled to 9.3x62.

[Rip Snorter]

7 minutes ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

 

Traditional gun, unmolested- authentic early 20th century, an 1895  in 30-06 and not think twice about a 1895 in 405 or 1886 in 45 or 50 caliber whatever.

 

For something a little different, and maybe not around in early 20th century, but certainly available today, and applicable to any African game, an 1895 rebored to 9.3x62.

9.3x62 has a great deal going for it!

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

4 hours ago, Rip Snorter said:

9.3x62 has a great deal going for it!

Absolutely

I have thought of getting a bolt gun in 9.3 long and hard but having 243 260, 270 and 30-06, I’d probably jump over the 9.3 and 35 whelen for a 375 hnh or 375 Ruger.

 

 

 

[Rip Snorter]

1 minute ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

Absolutely

I have thought of getting one long and hard but having 243 260, 270 and 30-06, I’d probably jump over the 9.3 and 35 whelen for a 375 hnh or 375 Ruger.

 

 

 

I like interesting old calibers that offer high performance and flexibility - 338-06 Ackley Improved, almost equal to 338 Mag, but less recoil and 30-06 case.  9.3x62, almost a 375 H&H, but can also be made from a 30-06 case.  Interest is enough to justify a bolt gun it you like tinkering with handloads.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

PO Ackley had it figured out a long time ago.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Roosevelt's Africa rifles.  The top in .30-03 (yes 03, the predessor to the .30-06) and the bottom in .405.

 

he

[Jackson Haller]

Hi,

 I once did some research on calibers used in southern Africa at the turn of the previous century.  She could go with a Mauser bolt action in 7x64 for plains animals (very easy on the shoulder), and a Mauser bolt action in 9.3 x 62 for bigger game (slightly less recoil than a 375 H&H).   I have  owned and shot both, and a woman could handle them, with some practice, of course.

As for handguns, I find the 1917 45 acp Colt and S&W grips uncomfortable and difficult to get to the trigger.  She would be better served with a Colt single action in 45 colt with a 250 grain bullet on top of a full case of BP, again with some practice in the use of it.