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My take on some stuff


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I've said for a while there's 3 MAIN reasons people shoot in sass.

1) Dressers- The person that is in it for the dress. This person may put less emphasis on the shooting aspects but pride themselves on dressing the part down to the period correct socks.

A) The minimalist dressers are allowed by our current rules to compete in our sport. If we feel that needs to change, put forth a new minimum standard. Don't grudge on them for playing within the rules.

2) Cleaners- The person that strives to shoot a clean match regardless of how long it takes them. This person may take 60+ seconds to shoot a stage but they are very happy with it being clean.

A) Although there is a maximum time allowed for each stage to be scored, as of now we still consider the shooter with no misses "clean" even for shots fired after the maximum time. If people don't like that we need a new clarification or a rule put forth. Don't grudge on that shooter for taking 4 minutes to fix a gun on the line and hold up shooting for them to be "clean" because it is allowed.

3)Speed Shooter- The person that strives for their quickest time on a stage. This person will analyze the stage to find the most efficient way for them to run it. They practice. A lot.

A) We have a whole book of shooting rules to follow. If this shooter is within those rules, don't grudge on them for wanting to go fast. Some use the term "gamer" as a slur and some use it admiringly. Regardless, if something they do on a stage bothers you but is legal, it doesn't matter, because it was legal. Put forth a new rule or change the existing. There's no penalty for almost breaking a rule.

 

There are obviously some folks that shoot for a different reason. It may be that it's the only time they can fire their guns, or some other reason;however, there is one common theme. The fun and camaraderie of getting together and sharing those commonalities. Hell, I can shoot and dress up however I want to in my back yard. My times are usually better too. 

 

 

  

 

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19 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

A) We have a whole book of shooting rules to follow. If this shooter is within those rules, don't grudge on them for wanting to go fast. Some use the term "gamer" as a slur and some use it admiringly

As Dodge City Dixie would say, I prefer the term"Thinker" over "Gamer".

 

Thanks

Randy

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Someone recently suggested to me that the 5-second penalty for a miss or a P be changed to 10-seconds. I wonder how that would change the sport. I am sure some would love to see that happen and others complain.

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Well put TW. I would add that the majority are a combination of 2 or all 3 types. The pure "Thinkers", "Cleaners", or "Dressers" are a minority. Most embrace all aspects of CAS way.

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27 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said:

Well put TW. I would add that the majority are a combination of 2 or all 3 types. The pure "Thinkers", "Cleaners", or "Dressers" are a minority. Most embrace all aspects of CAS way.

Yep. I usually say that but forgot. Thank ya sir!

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Let's discuss this topic over a Nanner Split..... :lol:

 

P.S. - I've always hated it when a rules guru walks over to a feller on the firing line and says..... "you ALMOST broke the 170".     duh!

 

..........Widder

 

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2 hours ago, Cholla said:

Someone recently suggested to me that the 5-second penalty for a miss or a P be changed to 10-seconds. I wonder how that would change the sport. I am sure some would love to see that happen and others complain.

30 years ago, our club toyed with the 10 second penalty for a miss... it was unanimously changed back to 5 seconds after one match!  Frankly, the fastest shooters are probably the one with the least misses... 10 second miss penalties only really penalize the newer or more challenged shooters... Think BP.   Procedurals are already 10 seconds... Maybe the Minor Safety penalty needs to be addressed...  

 

1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

P.S. - I've always hated it when a rules guru walks over to a feller on the firing line and says..... "you ALMOST broke the 170".     duh!

..........Widder

Sometimes, both new shooters and those more experienced get a little casual about their muzzle control... and a less strident reminder can help... ah...  re-focus their attention back on their muzzle control...  Less stressful than callin' a SDQ.

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Well said World Champion Tennessee Williams.

I don't dress to the nines for playing a game because I don't dress to the nines for living. -_- (gave up suit and tie in 1996)

While I do like shooting a clean match (lost count years ago) it is more because the guys/gals I shoot with will whomp on you if you have a miss, bobble or mistake. :o

Thinking about the best, most efficient, way to do anything is part of my nature and I could not do things any other way if I tried. :) (my alias to my alias is O.C.D. Kid) when they aren't calling me Forrest!

I like to shoot as fast as I can simply because it is fun (to me) and the point of it all is to have fun. :D

As far as those who use "gamer" as a derogatory I am proud to carry the "gamer" name. I follow the rules, paint, setup, write stages, posse marshal, pull targets etc,  instruct those who ask, offer guns, ammo and equipment to those who have a need and so forth. I hear some say all the "gamers" are ruining the game but I have yet to meet one like that. If someone is cheating call it that, if someone is playing within the SASS rules, but not YOUR rules, that is more the complainers problem than theirs.

YMMV

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

 

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There is a lady shooter that I know who is very fast, she is always at least in the top 3 at local matches.  I was over her house one day and saw all the buckles and awards that she had gotten over the years, there were quite a few.  Now going into my 4th year of shooting CAS I’ve proven to myself that I’m not fast, and most likely never will be, I look to improve my personal time and shooting without misses or P’s (BP shooters never shoot clean :D).  One day I asked her about her practice routine and was amazed that she’d often practice 4-5 hours a day, to me that’s dedication.  Next question was why?  For her going fast was her way of having fun, she didn’t want to shoot in another category because it might slow her down.  I respected that answer and although she and I shoot for different reasons, it is our own personal reasons that keep us coming back week in and week out.  Do I want to practice 4-5 hours a day, no, and I understand that it is that self discipline that gets her to achieve her goals.   That diversity in the reasons of why we shoot CAS I think adds to the lack of a cutthroat attitude that is prevalent in other shooting disciplines, and I for one appreciate that. 

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3 hours ago, Cholla said:

Someone recently suggested to me that the 5-second penalty for a miss or a P be changed to 10-seconds. I wonder how that would change the sport. I am sure some would love to see that happen and others complain.

OWSA used to have 10 second misses. They only gave an award for first place.

They are no more!

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1 hour ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

OWSA used to have 10 second misses. They only gave an award for first place.

They are no more!

True,  but this was a single event in Reton NM.  and run by one person who was a former Wild Bunch member Bill Hahn who has since passed away.

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@Tequila ShooterYou forgot to mention that that Lady is about as humble as one can be. She is also willing to help anybody that asks.

 

On topic: I am less a dresser (Clothes for big guys cost big bucks) and just like to have fun. And for the friendships.

 

La Sombra

who is looking forward going to a major match that involve me shooting no train wreck stages ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH

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11 minutes ago, La Sombra said:

@Tequila ShooterYou forgot to mention that that Lady is about as humble as one can be. She is also willing to help anybody that asks.

 

On topic: I am less a dresser (Clothes for big guys cost big bucks) and just like to have fun. And for the friendships.

 

La Sombra

who is looking forward going to a major match that involve me shooting no train wreck stages ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH

But La Sombra, you've got that hat.  I don't even remember what else you wear. :)

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My TO at the SE Regional last year called out my time on a good stage shooting everything from the hip and finished with "that was freaking awesome!". Made my weekend. I love this game 

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53 minutes ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

True,  but this was a single event in Reton NM.  and run by one person who was a former Wild Bunch member Bill Hahn who has since passed away.

True, but others were running after he stepped down. They were making good changes but it was too late.

 I saw attendance dwindle away as SASS gained popularity.

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5 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Since when? If it takes a shooter 5 minutes to shoot a stage you score it as 300 seconds,

I thought the max time was figured at 5 seconds for every target plus 10 seconds for a procedural plus 30 seconds.    Now I gotta go back and read the damn book for the 110th time....

 

:lol:

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29 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Since when? If it takes a shooter 5 minutes to shoot a stage you score it as 300 seconds,

 

At least since we made the switch to total time in 2017.

 

SHB pg 24

Quote

When using Total Time scoring, a maximum allowed time for each stage is to be calculated prior to the match, and is used as the Stage Disqualification score (SDQ) and maximum stage score.

 

The maximum time allowed for a stage is the total of all available targets/miss penalties plus 30 seconds.   

 

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Looks like max stage time predates the move to Total Time. This was actually voted on as a TG item in 2002.

 

https://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/tg/TG0103.pdf (emphasis added)

Quote

 

In a total time match, should we standardize the practice of scoring a stage DQ and send to committee for later discussion. The committee’s recommendations is as follows: In total time scored matches, a maximum time per stage will be established by adding together all available miss penalties, plus 30 seconds. Shooters receive maximum stage time for DNF, DQ, or not completing the stage within the maximum time.

 

170 for, 18 against, 1 abstain - Result: Pass

 

 

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Okay.  BUT, let's say the shooter really wants that clean match, so they fix the gun on the line or whatever, and it exceeds the max time.  Do you actually stop the shooter at that time, or let him finish and maybe even get his clean stage, and then write down the max time with no penalties?

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8 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Okay.  BUT, let's say the shooter really wants that clean match, so they fix the gun on the line or whatever, and it exceeds the max time.  Do you actually stop the shooter at that time, or let him finish and maybe even get his clean stage, and then write down the max time with no penalties?

I’d think the time. No penalty 

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13 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Okay.  BUT, let's say the shooter really wants that clean match, so they fix the gun on the line or whatever, and it exceeds the max time.  Do you actually stop the shooter at that time, or let him finish and maybe even get his clean stage, and then write down the max time with no penalties?

 

By all means, let them finish. Around here, the scorekeeper writes down the actual time score. It is the software that later updates the score to the max stage time.

 

We are just talking about how the match is scored.

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I don't mind the folks that dress to the minimum standard, but I really enjoy seeing the detailed outfits others wear.  I usually go for a more authentic "working Cowboy" outfit of loose pants (getting tighter this winter) and shirt, and a vest if not too hot.  At State matches I try to dress a bit fancier on at least one of the days, and of course the awards banquet.

 

Starting the game at age 64 means I'll never be a top-tier shooter for time, but I hope to improve my personal bests every now and then.  Shooting "Clean" used to be my big goal, but not so much anymore.  Usually I'm far enough down the list that at monthly matches if I eliminated all my misses it would only move me up one or two places overall.

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Tightening the rules on dress will not grow the sport or business.  However you wish to look at it.  The range is big enough for minimum dress all the way to the most spectacular B Western outfits.   If every person was decked out in the best B-western outfit would it really be that cool?  This sport is like anything your dress represents your personality or alias.

 

Before this sport I didn't own a pair of jeans, a cowboy hat or appropriate footwear.  I hauled my kid around so he could play cowboy.  No one gave me crap for bringing him in my daily clothes (shorts and a ball cap).  As we made friends and became part of the cowboy family.  I then started adopting the minimum dress code out of respect for the people playing the game.  After a couple years I finally broke down and started shooting.  I enjoy the people and the shooting but would be all for some short sleeves since I am a full figured shooter.  At the same time I also appreciate the folks that have really great outfits.   I just have to weigh my costume versus a heat stroke.   Not to mention if you bedazzle a 2x shirt its going to weight about 12 pounds.

 

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2 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

I like what you did there!

Take off those rose colored glasses!  :D

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15 hours ago, Griff said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes, both new shooters and those more experienced get a little casual about their muzzle control... and a less strident reminder can help... ah...  re-focus their attention back on their muzzle control...  Less stressful than callin' a SDQ.

Disagree Griff..There aint no penalty for nearly...we know  the rules....enforce when broken , maybe new shooters at a monthly when starting Cowboy  can be cut a little slack with a tap on the shoulder otherwise  say nothing..JMHO

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15 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Shooters receive maximum stage time for DNF, DQ, or not completing the stage within the maximum time.

That doesn't mean if a shooter successfully completes a stage and his time is 300 seconds you score it as a DNF etc. Otherwise two stages an it becomes a bigger penalty when a penalty wasn't what happened!

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Just now, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

That doesn't mean if a shooter successfully completes a stage and his time is 300 seconds you score it as a DNF etc. Otherwise two stages an it becomes a bigger penalty when a penalty wasn't what happened!

 

You are correct, it is not scored as a DNF. It is just scored with the max stage time.

 

So, for instance, a shooter who shoots a 10-10-4 in 300 seconds.

 

The score is just reported on the final score sheet as the max time (150.00), and that max time is used to calculate their total time.

 

A shooter could, for all intents an purposes, shoot a 5 stage match, all 10-10-4, all stages exceeding the max stage time (300 for instance), and their total time would be reported as 750 on the final scoresheet posted at awards time.

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