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Mountain Man Gramps

Shooting Category Question

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This is probably a stupid question, but here it is.

 

I’m trying to understand the shooting category rules.  Both the gunfighter and duelist categories specify that guns shall be held single handed and unsupported.  In the case of gunfighter you can hold two guns at once, for duelist it’s one gun at a time.  But both categories specify that the gun in one hand can’t be touched by the other hand.

 

So how is it that the shooting style demonstrated by Long Hunter in his YouTube videos legal.  For example, see his “Shooting with the Lower Body” video.  I also see this style at matches all the time.  In this style, the gun is supported by one hand, but the other hand is also on the grip and is operating the hammer.  This is clearly a violation of the duelist rules which clearly state the, “shooting arm may not be touched by the offhand.”  And the gunfighter rules state, “Revolvers must be cocked and fired one handed, unsupported, one right-handed and the other left-handed.” 
 

What am I missing? Why is this style legal?

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They aren't shooting duelist. When holding a revolver with both hands you're in any other category that doesn't require duelist or gunfighter style. 

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Shooting in any of the aged based categories or b Western or frontier cartridge

 

 

AGE  BASED  CATEGORIES Age  based  categories  are  offered  to  allow  all  participants  to  compete  amongst  their  peers.  Age  based  categories  carry  the  following  guidelines: - - - -

May  use  any  main  match  revolver.

Revolvers  may  be  shot  in  any  SASS  legal shooting  style  –  EXCEPT  Gunfighter. 

 

SHB pg5

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So does that mean you are in an age catagory?  The Classic costume category requires Duelist or Double Duelist and B-Western requires a SASS-legal “style”.  I’m assuming that “style” means category.  Is that correct?  If so, that means I would declare an age category.


Sorry, I’m an engineer and I take everything literally!

 

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How old are you? That will help you get the list of age categories you are eligible for

 

Junior  Boy/Junior  Girl:  16  and  under.

Wrangler/Lady  Wrangler:  Age  36  and  up. 

Forty-Niner/Lady  Forty-Niner:  Age  49  and  up.

Senior/Lady  Senior:  Age  60  and  up.

Silver  Senior/Lady  Silver  Senior:  Age  65  and  up.

Elder  Statesman/Grand  Dame:  Age  70  and  up.

Cattle  Baron/Cattle  Baroness:  Age  75  and  up.

El  Patron/La  Patrona:  Age  80  and  up. 

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How fantastic the SASS community is!  While I’m typing a response to a the first responder, another SASS’er answers the question I’m asking. Thank you!

 

I’ll be a B Western or Silver Senior.

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40 minutes ago, Mountain Man Gramps said:

In the case of gunfighter you can hold two guns at once, for duelist it’s one gun at a time.

 

You have slightly misread part of the rules.  Both of these categories shoot the revolvers in a duelist style, with the gunfighter getting to shoot both revolvers together if desired.  Duelist style is shooting while holding each revolver with only one hand.  

 

The other common shooting style is Modern - holding the revolver in two hands.  Usually faster and more accurate shooting is possible with Modern.

 

A duelist (category) shooter may have only one LOADED revolver in his hand or hands at a time.   He can normally draw one revolver, shoot it empty, then draw the second revolver and shoot it empty.   That first revolver could be holstered any time after it is shot empty.  Before drawing the second, while drawing the second, while shooting the second, or after emptying the second (at which time both could be holstered at the same time if desired).   A duelist who wants to shoot only with his strong hand can do so, this will involve using a cross-draw holster or transferring one revolver from the off side hand to the strong side hand before shooting it.  Single duelist shoots both revolvers with the same hand.  Double duelist shoots a revolver from each of his two hands.

 

A gunfighter (category) shoots gunfighter style normally, alternating shots between his two revolvers held each in one hand.   Or he could shoot double duelist style, emptying one of two drawn guns and then emptying the other.   Note - for a while he has two loaded revolvers out of the holsters at same time!  A gunfighter cannot shoot both of his revolvers with just one of his hands - that would be duelist shooting style and gunfighters are prohibited by rule from shooting "simple" duelist.

 

Exceptions are granted about not using a second hand if a duelist or gunfighter has to clear a problem with a revolver.  He can use his other hand to help clean the jam or misfire, but when he next fires, that second hand has to be off the gun.

 

Good luck, GJ

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B Western can use any revolver shooting style - modern, duelist or gunfighter.   Interchangeably during the match.

 

Silver Senior is an age-restricted category, and can shoot modern (two hands on a revolver while shooting) or duelist style.  But not gunfighter style.

 

Good luck, GJ

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1 hour ago, Mountain Man Gramps said:

So does that mean you are in an age catagory?  The Classic costume category requires Duelist or Double Duelist and B-Western requires a SASS-legal “style”.  I’m assuming that “style” means category.  Is that correct?  If so, that means I would declare an age category.


Sorry, I’m an engineer and I take everything literally!

 

Being an engineer has nothing to do with your confusion. I are one. It is common in most shooters.

The most common LEGAL shooting style in Cowboy shooting is two handed. One hand on the grip the revolver with the other hand is operating the hammer. 

The second type of shooting style used in Cowboy Shooting is Duelist in which the revolver is shot with one hand unsupported by the other. Both revolvers are shot with the same hand.

A third shooting style is double duelist in which one revolver is shot right handed and the other left handed. In both duelist styles the shooter may have only one LOADED revolver in hand at a time.

A forth shooting style is Gunfighter, in which the shooter may have TWO LOADED guns out at one time and shoot those guns in any order they choose as long as five rounds are fired with each hand.

 

B- Western is a category which allows any shooting style the shooter chooses.

Duelist is a category in which the shooter is limited to Duelist style of shooting revolvers.

Gunfighter is also a Category in which the shooter may shoot Gunfighter style or Double Duelist style.

There are also sub categories that divide categories into age or style or type of propellant. (Confused yet?)

 

This is not a full explanation of the different nuances of each category which may restrict the shooter to shooting styles or type of gun or the type of costume.

Your best option is to attend SEVERAL MATCHES locally and talk with the shooters there about why they choose to shoot what they choose to shoot.

Each has its limitations. The good news is the older you get the more categories there are. The bad news is. That these old folks can surprise the hell out of you with their speed once that timer goes off!

 

Seek out your clubs Territorial Governor. He/She is probably the most knowledgeable about the current rules.

Get with your local instructor and find out when the next class on the Shooters Handbook  (called an RO-I course) is going to be. And go!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mountain Man Gramps said:

So does that mean you are in an age catagory?  The Classic costume category requires Duelist or Double Duelist and B-Western requires a SASS-legal “style”.  I’m assuming that “style” means category.  Is that correct?  If so, that means I would declare an age category.


Sorry, I’m an engineer and I take everything literally!

 

 

The shooting styles are:

Gunfighter

Duelist

Double Duelist (just like duelist except that you have to shoot one revolver from each hand)

Traditional - That's the 2 handed style you probably saw longhunter do. 

 

The confusion is that 2 of those styles are also categories.  Gunfighter and Duelist. 

 

To add to the confusion, double duelist is a legal style in every category.  Being a funfighter does not preclude you from pulling just one gun at a time if you so desire. 

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Hey MMG, if you keep working at it you’re goin to be a pretty good senior gunfighter. Maybe at Escondido in June even.

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Frontiersmen gunfighter anyone ?

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“Senior , B Western, frontier cartridge, gunfighter”.  Can’t turn  on Purple Font”

 

Fox

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Josie Wales, shoot 5 pistols duelist. Welcome to the game. Now go get yourself a good hat

 

Imis

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13 hours ago, SHOOTIN FOX said:

“Senior , B Western, frontier cartridge, gunfighter”.  Can’t turn  on Purple Font”

 

Fox

Here ya go !

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This year, SASS added EL REY for those over 85.  ;)  I have shot Gunfighter style since I was a boy and fell in love with Western movies. I think that the prohibition against Gunfighter is stupid and is a last remnant of the gun control junk that permeated SASS during the early days.

 

I always ask beforehand if it's OK to shoot gunfighter in my age category  during any match that I propose to enter. If not OK, I just don't attend.

 

The prohibition against gunfighter is really absurd when you consider that I seldom have any competition!   ;) I shoot my category to encourage other older pards and pardettes to keep competing. :wub:

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4 hours ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said:

Josie Wales, shoot 5 pistols duelist. Welcome to the game. Now go get yourself a good hat

 

Imis

It doesn't help when someone starts talking about local or unofficial categories.

 

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22 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

Hey MMG, if you keep working at it you’re goin to be a pretty good senior gunfighter. Maybe at Escondido in June even.


Yul,

Actually, I’m dry firing a couple of “styles” to see what fits best. Not sure yet. They all have their unique challenges and potholes, or so it seems.  It’s fun experimenting. But Gunfighter definitely looks the coolest!

 

But thanks for the feedback.

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1 hour ago, Mountain Man Gramps said:


Yul,

Actually, I’m dry firing a couple of “styles” to see what fits best. Not sure yet. They all have their unique challenges and potholes, or so it seems.  It’s fun experimenting. But Gunfighter definitely looks the coolest!

 

But thanks for the feedback.

Well then - just go get yourself some of those store-bought fancy clothes & shoot B-Western. You can shoot a different style every stage !! 

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23 hours ago, T-Square said:

Frontiersmen gunfighter anyone ?

Not according to the rules.

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Rules ? Who needs stinking Rules!?!

Maybe we can't Frontiersmen Gunfighter at a major match, but come shoot at our club match - it will be fun, and smokey and fiery !  LOL

We may never get back to major matches given the current chaos !

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47 minutes ago, Yusta B. said:

Well then - just go get yourself some of those store-bought fancy clothes & shoot B-Western. You can shoot a different style every stage !! 

 One of those store bought fancy saloon girls dresses and tights ?! Is pregnant Soiled Dove a category? Duelist or gunfighter?

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6 hours ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

This year, SASS added EL REY for those over 85.  ;)  I have shot Gunfighter style since I was a boy and fell in love with Western movies. I think that the prohibition against Gunfighter is stupid and is a last remnant of the gun control junk that permeated SASS during the early days.

 

I always ask beforehand if it's OK to shoot gunfighter in my age category  during any match that I propose to enter. If not OK, I just don't attend.

 

The prohibition against gunfighter is really absurd when you consider that I seldom have any competition!   ;) I shoot my category to encourage other older pards and pardettes to keep competing. :wub:

 

Mud - What was John Ford like? Where you young enough to be in the Great Train Robbery?  You certainly look good for your age !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Train_Robbery_(1903_film)

What did you do during prohibition? 

 

 

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On 5/3/2020 at 5:13 PM, T-Square said:

Frontiersmen gunfighter anyone ?

 

48 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

Not according to the rules.

 

Percussion revolvers and black powder cartridges and shotshells can be used in every category.  So sign up as a Gunfighter and shoot your percussion revolvers.  The name won’t make any difference in the fun.  Enjoy!

 

 

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42 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

 

Percussion revolvers and black powder cartridges and shotshells can be used in every category.  So sign up as a Gunfighter and shoot your percussion revolvers.  The name won’t make any difference in the fun.  Enjoy!

 

 

That's true, but you can't shoot "Frontiersman" category and shoot gunfighter style.  I believe that was what T-Square was talking about.  Could be wrong, though.

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9 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

That's true, but you can't shoot "Frontiersman" category and shoot gunfighter style.  I believe that was what T-Square was talking about.  Could be wrong, though.


 

Correct.  Frontiersmen shoot duelist style. So if you want a plaque that says “Frontiersman”, you cannot shoot gunfighter style.  (Frontiersmen can also shoot double duelist style, but that confuses newbies even more!! :o)

 

 I read T-Square’s post as wanting to shoot percussion revolvers gunfighter style, which is perfectly legal in Gunfighter category,  rather than trying to win a plaque with certain words on it.  Maybe I was wrong too.

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1 hour ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

... but that confuses newbies even more!! :o)

I resemble that remark. This entire thread confuses me... I am so glad I joined here before even buying me some gunz.

 

Bookmarking this thread for future questions. I'm not even sure what all to ask yet.

 

Anyway, don't let my post derail conversation in any way. Carry on.

 

Edit: And I'm also an engineer.

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5 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

 

Edit: And I'm also an engineer.


Me too.

 

BS Chem E, University of Colorado, 1967.  Then Doctor of Vet Med University of Missouri, 1978.

 

And after 22 years as a SASS member I still have to look at the Shooter’s Handbook, RO1 and RO2.
 

My heart goes out to new shooters, bless ‘em,  we don’t make it easy for them do we!!  :ph34r:

 

 

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Here is a chart that someone smarter than me put together. SASS Category Matrix v2.1.pdf

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My inexperience shows. Forgive me.

yes, I want to shoot Frontiersmen - because it cap n ball ( required).

I actually thought I could only do Frontiersmen with cap n ball - until I read the chart above.

yes, I think frontiersmen should be allowed to shoot gunfighter - it's so freaking fun.

and I agree, the fun never ends, regardless of which catagory - but a cap n ball shooter may never beat a smokeless gunfighter, so if I shoot gunfighter I may have to settle for second place, but no smokeless  shooter can have more fun  than a Ruger Old Army with 30g of Holy Black powder !

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12 minutes ago, T-Square said:

 ...no smokeless  shooter can have more fun  than a Ruger Old Army with 30g of Holy Black powder !


Amen my brother!

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5 hours ago, Yusta B. said:

Well then - just go get yourself some of those store-bought fancy clothes & shoot B-Western. You can shoot a different style every stage !! 

Been there done that and got a buckle to prove it!:)

The 1st time I shot B Western was on a dare from Moonshine Millie ( the wife ). 

she bought a shirt and bet me I wouldn’t do it...... I did. :lol::lol:
 

 

The shooting STYLES that are available makes some interesting discussions among spotters occasionally. Throw in some FC loads along the way just to see if they’re staying awake ;)


 

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23 hours ago, T-Square said:

but a cap n ball shooter may never beat a smokeless gunfighter,

 

Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter is also open to you.  Thataway at least the competition will be shooting smoky loads. 

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On 5/3/2020 at 5:13 PM, T-Square said:

Frontiersmen gunfighter anyone ?

Nope

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