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Charlie Harley, #14153

6.5 Creedmoor. “Most popular...”

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This month’s American Hunter has a piece about a new Remington 700 built in collaboration with the magazine. 

 

The article says they chose the 6.5 Creedmoor because it is “the most popular cartridge in America”.

 

Am I just out of the loop or something?  I’d call it the “latest fad” or a “souped up .270”, but does anyone use one beyond some dedicated long-range shooters?

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I suppose it depends on how you define "most popular." Even then, I question the accuracy of the statement. Are there more rifles being sold in 6.5 Creedmoor than .223/5.56, among others? My guess is no. More rifles already in consumer hands than other calibers? Definitely not. More cartridges being sold than .223/5.56, .22LR or even .308? No again. I know it is only locally, not nationwide, but we have a harder time keeping .450 Bushmaster in stock than 6.5 Creedmoor.

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I actually like 6.5mm as a caliber.  The 6.5 Creedmoor is really a .243 (6mm)  srteched up to 6.5mm.  Yup it is a fad, but 6.5 is a fine caliber (my 6.5 Swedes will testify to that). :-)

 

STL Suomi

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Just an overstated fad, but it makes money and that's what it's all about.

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Posted (edited)

An interesting cartridge: sub MOA out to a 1000 yards*, fits into a short action receiver for bolt actions and into the AR-10 receiver for semi-autos and US Special Operations units seem to be adopting the cartridge because it performs better then the .308/7.62x51 cartridge.

 

The other cartridges .300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua, 6.5 x 284 that have similar long distance performance are in long action bolt actions or over sized semi-autos, have serious recoil .300 Win Mag & .338 Lapua) or have short barrel life, the 6.5x284 has a barrel life of less then 1000 rounds.

 

 

*Given the right equipment and shooter

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5mm_Creedmoor

 

 

Edited by Chantry

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The 6.5C is a good round-It is a barrel throat burner.

I like my .308 better, and have a longer barrel life.

OLG

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Most popular?

 

I haven't heard much about that caliber and have never actually seen one.

 

The only person I know who owned one lived in Logan, Utah and he just recently swapped it out and went back to .308.

 

I know lots of people with guns of every description, but this on doesn't seem all that popular among any of them.

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I remember in 2013 I had a friendly acquaintance that owned a gun store near Sacramento. He and all the gun store groupies discussed at great lengths the next “wonder cartridge” that the gun industry was going to push to put some life blood back into to market. They and some of the suppliers they dealt with were angling in picking a favorite round, more like taking or hedging bets on the next “big thing”. I definitely remember 6.5 and 6mm Creedmore being discussed. I also remember the 6.5 Grendel and the 6.8 SPC also being touted. But, my friend said his sources (how cryptic) said that the industry would push for a round and platforms that were not AR-15 like due to market saturation of the AR-15 at the time.

 

I really didn’t follow it because I really didn’t care. I like things that work and things that are tried and true regarding long guns, like the .30-30, the 308 and the 5.56. Truth be told, I only like the 5.56 because you can build cool guns that shoot it. Other than that if the 5.56 magically vanished my heart wouldn’t skip a beat over it. The 30-30 and .308, on the other hand, would disturb me...and I would have to pick a new round to build cool ARs...:D

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9 hours ago, St. Louis Suomi SASS #31905 said:

I actually like 6.5mm as a caliber.  The 6.5 Creedmoor is really a .243 (6mm)  srteched up to 6.5mm.  Yup it is a fad, but 6.5 is a fine caliber (my 6.5 Swedes will testify to that). :-)

 

STL Suomi

Sir, you are mistaken.  The .243 stretched up to 6.5mm is called the .260 Remington.
Remington's engineers must be gnashing their teeth in frustration, because the .260 Remington will do anything the 6.5 Creedmore will and more, and has been around a lot longer.

The 6.5 Creedmore is a good cartridge, no mistake about that,  but it is not a super cartridge.   It's claim to fame is mostly the result of good marketing and good press.

 

Duffield

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I have a bit of insight into the 6.5 Creed military interest. I see plenty of 6.5's here at my long range matches. In reality the 6.5 Creed, the 260 Remington, and the 6.5X47 Lapua are all different pictures of the same thing. I have shot semi and full auto prototypes of all 3. The 6.5X47 does Not lend itself to operation in other than single shot bolt guns. The 260 Remington runs Great in both semi and full auto firearms. The Creed is VERY finicky in a gas gun and the shoulder angle can cause some problems in full auto at high rates. Mark Larue told the military to go with 260 as it runs great in semi and full auto BUT the military had developed a proprietary bullet that was too long for the case. It would work with the Creed case however. The problem is that the Creed is extremely sensitive to gas pressure and flow rate in a gas gun. Mark made a bunch of 260's for the military that ran great but the bullet issue still moved them toward the Creed. I have seen at least a dozen "home build" Creeds here, mostly done by quite competent AR owner/builderss but none run well. To my knowledge the only two major companies that have built Creeds  that actually work are LaRue and JP. Mark won't build a Creed but will sell you an upper and it is on you to make it work.  John sells complete rifles (I just got mine) but tells you to develop a load, and tune the gas block to make it run. Then stick with that load. It will be interesting to see if the military can be successful with the finicky Creed downrange. The biggest problems are changing ammo and running a can or not. Gas flow even with easy rounds like 7.62X51 have to be changed when a suppressor is added. With a Creed it will be even more difficult.  Time will tell.

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When Sassparilla Kid built his AR awhile back he wanted a 6.5....

 

But he didn't want to follow the crowd ~ he opted for the 6.5 Grendel.  After all - what can be cooler than caliber named after the oldest monster in history??   ^_^

 

'Tis definitely an efficient, long range squirrel and coyote zapper.   ;)

 

 

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Happy Jack-Have you run any nitrated bores with the 6.5's

Bet that would really increase bbl life.

OLG

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1 hour ago, Duffield, SASS #23454 said:

Sir, you are mistaken.  The .243 stretched up to 6.5mm is called the .260 Remington.
Remington's engineers must be gnashing their teeth in frustration, because the .260 Remington will do anything the 6.5 Creedmore will and more, and has been around a lot longer.

The 6.5 Creedmore is a good cartridge, no mistake about that,  but it is not a super cartridge.   It's claim to fame is mostly the result of good marketing and good press.

 

Duffield

You are quite correct - however I probably should have said that 6.5 CR was essentially a .243 ...  necked up and trimmed a bit.  The  difference

difference ballistically is hardly worth talking about.  I have many .243 cartridges which I have run thru a 6.5 CR die,  trimmed, loaded and have  shot with no discernible difference in performance from factory cases reloaded in the same manner.   Maybe the men at Remington should have name their cartidge  a 6.5  CR and stole the thunder of the Ad men.  :-)  

 

History teaches us that it isn't who did it first, is is who runs with the idea.  Irish Monks discovered America, no it was Leif Erickson, no it was Christopher Columbus, no... wait weren't the Native Americans here prior to all those folks?  Doesn't really matter too much, the last "discoverer" ran with the ball, so to speak.

 

 

 #      Name                    Muzzle       Muzzle Energy   Bullet               Case  Capacity
                                         Velocity       (Avg. ft-lbs.)      Weight             (Avg. grs. H2O)
                                          (Avg. f.p.s.)                                (Avg. gr.)                        
 1.       6.5 Creedmoor        2764          2168                   129                      52.4
 2.      260 Remington      2816            2143                   123                     54.8

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I believe it is currently the best marketed round.  I got an amazing deal on a high end .243 because the seller needed to dump the antique round for a 6.5 C......good to be me!  Gun people are a trendy bunch....I love the cowboy guns!

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1 hour ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

When Sassparilla Kid built his AR awhile back he wanted a 6.5....

 

But he didn't want to follow the crowd ~ he opted for the 6.5 Grendel.  After all - what can be cooler than caliber named after the oldest monster in history??   ^_^

 

'Tis definitely an efficient, long range squirrel and coyote zapper.   ;)

 

 

 

The Grendel will run in a AR 15 chassis. The Creed needs the bigger AR 10 chassis.

 

I like the Grendel, my son n law has one.

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I'm waiting for the return of the .30 U. S. Krag.

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I have 4 rifles in .260 Remington....before the 6.5 creed was popular.  It is a fantastic round...very accurate and very low recoil.  I sold all my 308....can’t argue with physics of more retained energy at longer ranges.  I think the new thing Is the 6.5 prc.....

 

Tikka CTR in .260 is a great combo.

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OK I will admit up front that I ain't no expert on this semi and full auto stuff, but didn't the Swede's have both in their 6.5 x 55? Recreating the wheel when something just as good has been around for decades just seems weird to me.

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Remington came up with some good stuff like the 260 but they failed in bullet choices, rifle models, and marketing just like with the 6mm/244, and 280.   Ballistically, there is not enough difference in any above from the 6.5 swede to spit at.  Its the long range boys that favor the CM albeit barely over the 260.  I have all but the Grendel and yeah they get a lot of hype but don't trade in a good 270 or 280 for one.  Me, I'm hunting with a .264 Win Mag this fall.  Why?  Because I never have.

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Lumpy,  no.  Will have a more info by the end of August.  Another trial going on here.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Charlie Plasters, SASS#60943 said:

OK I will admit up front that I ain't no expert on this semi and full auto stuff, but didn't the Swede's have both in their 6.5 x 55? Recreating the wheel when something just as good has been around for decades just seems weird to me.

Yes, however the 6.5x55 requires a long action in a bolt action rifle and is too long for the AR-10 receiver.  Additionally due to the large number of surplus Swedish Mauser military rifles the US ammo makers refuse to load to the 6.5x55 to it's full potential because that would exceed the maximum safe pressures for the Swedish Mauser.

 

The 6.5 Creedmoor and similar cartridges will produce the same ballistics in short action bolt gun and can fit in the AR-10 receiver.

 

It is easier for the military and the gun makers to use a cartridge that fits into existing designs

Edited by Chantry

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An interesting read HERE

"

Quote

GOING BACK

Smokeless powder began to replace blackpowder in 1886. For the next decade, the world’s arms makers scrambled to develop smokeless powder cartridges, incorporating the parallel development of the jacketed bullet. Between 1891 and 1900, seven 6.5mm cartridges were adopted by various militaries around the world. Almost all used long, heavy-for-caliber bullets from 150 to 160 grains, mostly at typical “early smokeless” velocities between 2,300 and 2,400 fps. Some have nearly vanished while others are familiar from the surplus military markets: 6.5x50 Japanese, 6.5x52 Carcano. Military cartridges, however, do have a history of becoming popular sporting cartridges.

The first to have significant impact in the sporting world was the rimmed 6.5x53R Mannlicher. Adopted by the Netherlands and Romania, it quickly became popular among British sportsmen. Following the British convention of naming cartridges by the smaller land (rather than groove) diameter, they quickly called it the “.256.” It’s rare today, but the two with the more lasting impact are the 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, adopted by Greece; and the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser.

The 6.5x54 is a rimless cartridge that was quickly dubbed the “new .256” to distinguish it from the 6.5x53R. Both the 6.5x54 and 6.5x55 attained significant followings in the United States. Ernest Hemingway had a 6.5x54 Mannlicher on his “Green Hills” safari in 1934. It is still seen today; our esteemed Editor, Steve Comus, admitted that he has three and still hunts with them. The 6.5x55 has been more popular over here; it is still loaded by U.S. ammunition companies and occasionally chambered in domestic rifles (Kimber for example). In the early years, however, the only American 6.5mm was the .256 Newton. Based on the .30-’06 case necked down, it was designed by Charles Newton in 1913, and was loaded by Western until 1938.

Ernest Hemingway and PH PH Phillip Percival and Ernest Hemingway on the safari that gave us The Green Hills of Africa. Hemingway had a Mannlicher in 6.5x54 MS on the safari, often referred to in the book.

Charles Newton’s last manufacturing effort failed in the 1920s. There would not be another American 6.5mm cartridge for more than 30 years. It was, of course, the .264 Winchester Magnum, introduced in the Winchester Model 70 “Westerner” in 1958. Fast and flat-shooting, at first the .264 Win. Mag. looked like a superstar; the gunwriters gushed, and initial sales were excellent. In 1962, however, Remington’s 7mm Remington Magnum blew the .264 off the market. The “Big Seven” is more versatile, but the .264 had issues that the public soon discovered. There was some blue sky in the initial published velocities; it was supposed to push a 140-grain bullet at 3,200 fps, but it never quite got there. Later the claim was reduced to 3,030 fps where it remains today. It needed the 26-inch barrel the Westerner was introduced in, and throat erosion was rapid.

The .264 Win. MAG. is still loaded but rarely chambered. Oddly, this handwriting was already on the wall in 1966 when Remington introduced its 6.5mm Remington Magnum. Based on the 7mm Remington Magnum case shortened and necked down, the 6.5mm Remington Magnum fits into short bolt actions and comes close to the .270 Winchester in performance. It never went anywhere, and it was about that time when gunwriters (if not manufacturers) started talking about “the curse of the 6.5mm” in America.

 

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A few years ago I was wanting to build a new long range[800-1200yd]rifle.I wanted a bolt gun not an AR,so the list of possibilities was long.I narrowed it down to the 6.5/.264 class and decided on 3 candidates 6.5/.284, 6.5 Grindel. And the 6.5x.308 40R,which is the 6.5 Ackley Improved.

After much deliberation I chose the Ackley.

The deciding factors were fairly simple ,and purely my own (probably flawed )reasoning.The 6.5 .284 has the best velocity of the lot andgreat accuracy ,but are barrel burners.Not wanting to replace barrels at around 1000 rounds ,I passed on it.

At the time both the Grendel and the Creedmore were fairly new and chamber reamers were not easy to find and I wanted a little more case capacity.Being basically a .260 Rem. Case blown out to a practically straight walled (I think it's around 2 degree taper)it gave about 15%more case capacity when combined with a 40degree radius.

My gunsmith suggested cutting the neck of the chamber large enough to accommodate thicker brass ,so I don't have to turn or ream necks.Just run 260 Rem brass through the sizing die and fireform.

So far it has met all my expectations,shoots extremely well and it's easy to load for and I can shoot factory 260 Rem. Through it for the brass and they shoot really well,too.

But of course, YMMV.

Chocktaw Jack

 

 

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I was an unbeliever in the 6.5cm for years. Just a lot of hype I thought. Decided to write another magazine article for a magazine I’ve written for. I’d buy the least expensive rifle in 6.5cm,  shoot it, and them do a bunch of stuff to it to see how accurate a cheap rifle could be. Bought a Savage with a factory mounted 3-9 scope from CDNN....with rebates and a sale price it cost me $249. While visiting the Sierra factory, I bought a few pounds of “blemish”, 140g bullets. Three different versions. Loaded x grains of IMR4350 as a bunch of rifle forums suggested this is the go to powder, and headed to the range. First shot at 100yards was near bullseye. Second shot, nothing on the paper...oh-oh...third shot I could see the group opened up just a bit. Fourth and fifth shot simply enlarged group a tiny bit. Measured this gun shot a five shot 3/8” group! The first five rounds down the tube! And at 200yards it was still under 1/2moa. Not much I could do to get it to shoot better. Scratch one magazine article. This rifle has shot dozens of sub 1/2” groups. No load development, no messing with OAL, no nothing.Amazing accuracy right out of the box.

 Now I’m VERY interest in the 6.5 cm. Bought a Thompson Compass from Cabelas for $279.....Near carbon copy results as above....superb accuracy with exact same load and three different bullets! No messing around with anything.

  So now Cabelas has a sale on Remington 700 Varmint in 6.5cm for $349 with rebate....I haven’t seen a Remington shoot under 1 inch for years. At the Egg Shoots I frequent a remington hasn’t won in over 15 years.....so I took a chance....once again, fantastic, mirror accuracy to the above.....this gun shoots well under 1/2” consistently. Finally, a Remington that has some accuracy.

 Two more 6.5 cm rifles have joined the team. A Cabelas exclusive Savage heavy barrel varmint and a Bargara 14....

 Every single one of them is more accurate, without any load development or fussing around than any rifles I’ve ever owned in the past 40 years.

 Don’t ask me why, I have no idea why a cartridge that looks like so many others and has ballistics comparable to others is so darn accurate in a large cross section of rifles. Maybe it is the superb, small primer, Lapua brass I was using. Maybe it is PFM....I don’t know....

  I’m not new to accurate rifle sports. I shot benchrest for over 20 years and have been gunsmithing long range benchrest rifles for much more than that. 

 There are only two other cartridges that were this easy to shoot accurately....6mmBR and 17m4.......go figure

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I feel they just reinvented the wheel , the 6.5x55 will do much more then the  CM   this is just my take on it and worth what ya paid for it

 

 the 708 , is a 7x57 with out being as versatile IMO , just slick marketing 

 

  Chickasaw 

,  

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As far as versatility, you can’t find much better than the 6.5x55. But no way is it as accurate as the CM. Especially when we are talking 500+ yards. That is where the 6.5CM has nearly no match....

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On 7/26/2019 at 4:50 AM, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

This month’s American Hunter has a piece about a new Remington 700 built in collaboration with the magazine. 

 

The article says they chose the 6.5 Creedmoor because it is “the most popular cartridge in America”.

 

Am I just out of the loop or something?  I’d call it the “latest fad” or a “souped up .270”, but does anyone use one beyond some dedicated long-range shooters?

 

On 7/26/2019 at 4:50 AM, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

This month’s American Hunter has a piece about a new Remington 700 built in collaboration with the magazine. 

 

The article says they chose the 6.5 Creedmoor because it is “the most popular cartridge in America”.

 

Am I just out of the loop or something?  I’d call it the “latest fad” or a “souped up .270”, but does anyone use one beyond some dedicated long-range shooters?

I'm also a great fan of the 6.5 x 54 MS and have kicked myself many times for selling my 1903 MS carbine back in 1965 so I'd have a enough money to get married and move to Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD for my first posting.

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