WTC: SG 'squib'

[Widder, SASS #59054]

First firearm and First shot:

TO discerns the first shot goes 'piff' and immediately tells the shooter to "STOP".   At the same moment, the wad exits the front of the barrel.

 

No powder, No shot.....just a wad.

 

Did TO make the right call and grant a restart/reshoot based on a round had not gone down range AND the TO commanded the shooter to "STOP".

 

Now for the following info:   If that 1st shot is considered a round down range BUT the wad lands within the 5 ft and 10 ft areas,  would

the SDQ and MDQ become the penalty?

 

Thanks

 

..........Widder

 

[Matthew Duncan]

No.

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

My gut only..

Should have put shotgun down(or handed off) called   "bad gun" and continued..

taken his misses and NO reshoot..

 

I don't know on the SDQ or MDQ..

My feelings is no..  No lead hit the area's you designated??

 

Rance 

Thinkin I probably should have stayed off this

[Fireball #7709 Life]

There are no restarts in a gunfight  

[Three Foot Johnson]

2 minutes ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

My gut only..

Should have put shotgun down(or handed off) called   "bad gun" and continued..

taken his misses and NO reshoot..

 

I don't know on the SDQ or MDQ..

My feelings is no..  No lead hit the area's you designated??

 

Rance 

Thinkin I probably should have stayed off this

Along the same line, no shot, but a wad goes downrange and hits the target. No lead, so is it a hit or a miss?

 

I once saw a 97 shooter experience a squib, he immediately opened the action, turned the shotgun around and looked down the muzzle for the wad, saying "It's OK because you can't sweep yourself"

"Maybe... but you also just broke the 170 by a considerable margin"

 

No call was made.

[Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118]

Always error on the side of safety, stop the shooter, if barrel is clear after a check at the unloading table, shooter gets a re-start. If barrel is obstructed, oh well misses assessed. If the shotgun could be grounded safely to complete the stage, shooter may shoot rifle and revolvers.

 

TB

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

in this case,,, you must obey the TO,, he said STOP... period

 

 

[Yusta B.]

53 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

First firearm and First shot:

TO discerns the first shot goes 'piff' and immediately tells the shooter to "STOP".   At the same moment, the wad exits the front of the barrel.

 

No powder, No shot.....just a wad.

 

Did TO make the right call and grant a restart/reshoot based on a round had not gone down range AND the TO commanded the shooter to "STOP".  yes

 

Now for the following info:   If that 1st shot is considered a round down range BUT the wad lands within the 5 ft and 10 ft areas,  would

the SDQ and MDQ become the penalty?  no

 

Thanks

 

..........Widder

 

 

[Ace_of_Hearts]

A Timing Operator should also be aware that stopping a shooter for a "squib" in a double barrel shotgun is not the proper thing to do.

The shooter still has a functional firearm in his hands. 

Now if the shooter attempts to LOAD another round in the barrel where the suspected squib occurred that's when the shooter should be stopped from proceeding. He can certainly use the shotgun as a single barrel for the rest of the stage or take the brief time to verify that the suspected plugged barrel is clear. An 1887 or 1897 shotgun is a different story.

 

In addition, telling a shooter to "stop" if a suspected squib occurs is not really the proper word to use. You don't want the shooter to STOP, you want him/her not to use that firearm until it is cleared. Some other word that conveys the danger in proceeding is more appropriate. Such as "Squib". The shooter can then make up their own mind as to how to proceed. Trying to stop even an average shooter, before the next shot, is almost impossible.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Quote

- In the case of a suspected squib, the CRO/TO will instruct the shooter to make the firearm safe and continue with the next firearm.  If the barrel is later determined to be clear, the shooter will receive a reshoot. 

SHB p.13

 

This does NOT apply to the FIRST ROUND fired on a stage...in that case, the shooter would get a RESTART rather than being directed to continue.

 

TECHNICALLY, the shot leaving the barrel would constitute "a round downrange", but why risk a possible unsafe catastrophic event?

 

IMO...if the first SG round is "questionable" as to whether the barrel is actually clear after an underpowered discharge (even if the wad & shot apparently "went downrange"), it would be BEST to STOP and give the shooter a RESTART.

That opinion is based on the variations in reloading techniques using multiple wads/cards/etc.; particularly re BP "home made" ammunition.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Perhaps being BOLD.  But.  Absolutely no other opinion of what could have been, what should have been nor what might have been.  ALL of the previous "maybe" opinions are moot.  The TO said STOP.  That's it.  The shooter STOPS right THERE.  No other supposedly learned opinions apply.  The shooter STOPS right there.  What we think the TO should or could have done is moot.  TO said STOP.  Done.

 

Now, if the TO determines after the STOP is really an OPPS, and gives a reshoot, he or she gets to do that.  Kinda simple ain't it??

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

The TO said stop.....End of it.

Error on the side of safety, and give a re-shoot.

OLG

[McCandless]

Attempted first shot... Cease Fire, Stop, Hold it Right There... Whatever it takes.  You suspect a squib, you stop the shooter.  It's a game.  Why risk someone's safety over a game?  

If shooter gets a reshoot, that's ok too.

 

If after the first shot, then on to next gun. (Or if a SxS, shooter can take a second to determine if barrel is clear, or use it as a single shot.)

 

In this case, the CRO said Stop.  That's it.

 

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Thanks everyone.

 

Thanks PWB..... looks like the situation was handled most appropriately.    The shooter was given a Restart.

 

..........Widder

 

[Billy the Avenger]

5 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

SHB p.13

 

TECHNICALLY, the shot leaving the barrel would constitute "a round downrange", but why risk a possible unsafe catastrophic event?

 

 

Shot or wad/ shot card ?

Last ro refresher, it was wad down range

 

Shot rolls out the barrel, first gun

Was told no round down range

If wad comes out then it's down range?

 

 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

25 minutes ago, Billy the Avenger said:

Shot or wad/ shot card ?

Last ro refresher, it was wad down range

 

Shot rolls out the barrel, first gun

Was told no round down range

If wad comes out then it's down range?

 

Why risk there being ANYTHING possibly obstructing the bore of the shotgun on the FIRST round of the stage?

If I'm running the timer, I'm going to STOP the shooter and give a RESTART after making certain that the barrel is clear.

 

[Billy the Avenger]

Yes your right but, whats the call on a reshoot for a round down range in a shotgun, shot or wad

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

32 minutes ago, Billy the Avenger said:

Yes your right but, whats the call on a reshoot for a round down range in a shotgun, shot or wad

 

I already gave my opinion on that in a previous post regarding a "suspected squib".

 

IMO, the answer has too many possible variables involved, especially with regard to BP ammo.

 

[El Hombre]

No and could have used it as a single barrel

[Black Mike]

Cease Fire!  No apologies. If you have ever seen a shotgun barrel blow you would know it is a very dangerous situation for the shooter, T.O. And bystanders.  I have seen it twice and it resulted in significant damage to firearm and fortunately only minor injury to shooter. 

 

 1st shot with first  gun gets restart. Other than first make safe, continue shooting and then check firearm at unloading table. No wad in barrel gets reshoot. Wad in barrel take misses. 

 

I had had this happen recently where the spouse was angry as he thought he saw the wad clear the barrel. At the unloading table out came the wad. Squibs and out of battery discharges are pretty scary R.O. Situations. 

[Hollifer A. Dollar]

This exact situation happened last year at Black Gold.  I was the timer operator.  First round went *pop* & I didn't see the wad come out, so I stopped him.  Someone said "I saw the wad come out, it's laying right there" about 2 ft downrange.  We all laughed at the shooter for the ultralight load (he is known for loading 38s light), had him check the barrel (he didn't look from the muzzle end) & started him again.  When he finished the stage, someone on the posse said "why did you let him restart?  lead went downrange".  I just said "Please" & called the next shooter.

 

Holler

[Guest Hollywood Dave]

We are there to have fun and shoot, right Holler, RE-SHOOT, IJAFG. 

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

To said stop! End of discussion! Shooter must follow to's instructions.

Re-shoot! Next shooter

Rafe

[Yusta B.]

34 minutes ago, Hollifer A. Dollar said:

  When he finished the stage, someone on the posse said "why did you let him restart?  lead went downrange".  I just said "Please" & called the next shooter.

 

Holler

Not criticizing the TO in any way - better safe than sorry - the shooter was prevented from continuing the stage.

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

We are adults, playing cowboy.

IMHO any potentially dangerous situation or action must be addressed immediately.

We are not playing with air-soft here.

[Ramblin Gambler]

Outta curiosity, if I have a squib with my shotgun midstage, can I show the barrel clear to the TO and continue with the SG targets?  With a SG it's easy to do and most likely what I'd rather do if I was in that situation.  But the letter of the rules doesn't seem to grant that kind of leeway. 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

 

1 hour ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

Outta curiosity, if I have a squib with my shotgun midstage, can I show the barrel clear to the TO and continue with the SG targets?  With a SG it's easy to do and most likely what I'd rather do if I was in that situation.  But the letter of the rules doesn't seem to grant that kind of leeway. 

 

Quote

- In the case of a suspected squib, the CRO/TO will instruct the shooter to make the firearm safe and continue with the next firearm.  If the barrel is later determined to be clear, the shooter will receive a reshoot. 

 

IMO...showing the T/O that the barrel is clear constitutes "making the firearm safe" in order to continue the stage.

Shooter's option to take the extra time to do so.

[Assassin]

2 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

 

 

IMO...showing the T/O that the barrel is clear constitutes "making the firearm safe" in order to continue the stage.

Shooter's option to take the extra time to do so.

Had a shooter with a squib yesterday, midstage. I made sure he had one safe barrel and he continued on with a clean stage.