Montana murder case where defendant invoked "castle defense" ..jury has rendered a verdict.

[Krazy Kajun]

Jury just convicted Montana man of murder who tried to use a castle defense doctrine to justify his actions....you can read about it here.

 

I think the jury got this one right.

 

Kajun

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

Yes, they were right. What he did looks like pre-meditated murder to me.

 

Duffield

[Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862]

Yeah, I agree. I do not like this defense to be diminished, but there has to be a line. And I think he crossed it.

[Subdeacon Joe]

From the article it almost seems like he wanted to find an excuse to kill someone for the fun of it. If he had to have a monitor to tell him that someone was in his open garage, I'd say that he was not in any danger.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I've got mixed emotions on this one. I hate thieves but baiting and then killing them probably crosses the line. It's kind of hard to explain to a jury you when you were bragging to the hair dresser about it the week before.

 

I've been to numerous calls where the homeowner shot the burglar. None of the homeowners were ever charged with anything.

[Henry T Harrison]

The penalty for stealing something from an open garage is not death, nor should it be

[Irish Tom]

Sad part is, the bedwetters will over react and try to do away with a perfectly good castle doctrine law.

[J. Frank Norfleet]

What you say before and after a shooting can hang you!

Jury made the right decision.

L

[Tom Bullweed]

There is a wide line between protecting yourself in your home without feeling the need to run away and planning to shooting a kid willing to take a purse in plain view. Yes, what the kid did was wrong, but the jury was right to find this Kaarma guilty of planning a homicide.

[Smoken D]

Castle doctrine law had nothing to do with this incident as the jury decided. It was just murder and simply premeditated in my book.

[Poet Jones 99980]

Wow! I am staunchly pro 2A, but that scared me just a little. Kids do stupid things. I know I did and so did my son, but kids don't deserve to die for stupidity. Why did he not just threaten and call the cops?

[Nasty Newt # 7365]

Castle doctrine law had nothing to do with this incident as the jury decided. It was just murder and simply premeditated in my book.

I agree.

[Cat Brules]

My analysis comes only from what I read. Obviously there was more to this story, but based on the article:

 

George Zimmerman was right in using deadly force to protect himself from the vicious street thug, Trayvon Martin, by shooting him. He could have sot Martin several times and still been in the right.

 

Markus Kaarman was never close to being right. Kaarman (apparently) was never threatened, but simply opened fire on one or more young boys. Granted....the young men should never have been on Kaarman's property, even though he baited them into his "castle", but Kaarman's murderous response was just that. I'd say Kaarman was fortunate to receive so light a sentence. Psychopath, sounds like.

[Irish Tom]

Castle doctrine law had nothing to do with this incident as the jury decided. It was just murder and simply premeditated in my book.

D.

I agree, the jury got it right, however many of the anti's are already calling for the repeal of the Castle Doctrine, claiming that it encourages these type of shootings.

[Rusty Chains]

D.

I agree, the jury got it right, however many of the anti's are already calling for the repeal of the Castle Doctrine, claiming that it encourages these type of shootings.

 

They were calling for that before, they call for all kinds of anti-gun laws based on whatever lie or bogus statistics they can gin up. The truth ain't in em and never has been. The declining old media will pay attention to them and will pretend their blather has serious weight and meaning, but in the end we will continue to win as the antis and their political cronies continue to lose political influence everywhere but the bluest of blue states.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Jury just convicted Montana man of murder who tried to use a castle defense doctrine to justify his actions....you can read about it here.

 

I think the jury got this one right.

 

Kajun

Agree.

 

GG

[Irish Tom]

 

They were calling for that before, they call for all kinds of anti-gun laws based on whatever lie or bogus statistics they can gin up. The truth ain't in em and never has been. The declining old media will pay attention to them and will pretend their blather has serious weight and meaning, but in the end we will continue to win as the antis and their political cronies continue to lose political influence everywhere but the bluest of blue states.

Well said.

[Charlie Whiskers]

Did he have to shoot the kid...no. Was the kid in his garage to steal something ...yes, and it wasn't his 1st venture at being a thief. Even the kid with him said he'd broken into places and stole things to sell before this time. Maybe his parents should have taught him better. An open door does not mean come in and help yourself. I hate thieves. I've had my pickup gas tank drained. I now have a locking gas cap. I've had my detached garage broken into (kicked in and pried open the side entry door) and all my tools in the tool chest and roller cabinet stolen along with my mower and small air compressor when I was away one weekend. That one cost me $500 for a steel entry door and frame. If I'd been home whoever did it would probably be chewing dirt right now.

[Utah Bob #35998]

We all hate thieves.

But the law says you can't kill people for stealing.

[Dakota Rebel, SASS# 58412]

Minnesota convicted a man in Little Falls last year for laying in wait for two teenagers who had burglarized him before. When they came down in stairs, he shot them. The girl was still alive, so he "finished her off" with a shot under the chin.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

They used to hang horse thieves......

[Cat Brules]

Minnesota convicted a man in Little Falls last year for laying in wait for two teenagers who had burglarized him before. When they came down in stairs, he shot them. The girl was still alive, so he "finished her off" with a shot under the chin.

"You can't hang a man for shootin' a woman 'was tryin' to steal his horse."

 

But, lying in ambush for someone is pretty bad. Sometimes evil lies in wait, simmering for a lifetime before revealing itself.

[Irish Pat]

Police I know were very unhappy with the Zimmerman verdict as the police dispatcher gave him a direct order to leave Martin alone and he dis obeyed and caused all the trouble upon himself

[Harvey Mushman]

We all hate thieves.

But the law says you can't kill people for stealing.

According to "experts" on two different networks, a complicating factor is the Montana "castle doctrine" allegedly says you can do it to stop a "felony" . Probably the loosest castle doctrine in all the states?

 

Under this law (if correct?), the defendant's issue was premeditation (and announcing it to others), and baiting/enticing.

 

Verdict was deserved IMO.

[Cat Brules]

Police I know were very unhappy with the Zimmerman verdict as the police dispatcher gave him a direct order to leave Martin alone and he dis obeyed and caused all the trouble upon himself

Police I know were very unhappy with the Zimmerman verdict as the police dispatcher gave him a direct order to leave Martin alone and he dis obeyed and caused all the trouble upon himself

Not looking to rehash this Zimmerman matter other to say that my understanding is that

--The dispatcher's comment to Zimmerman was significantly less than a direct order.

--Martin doubled back on Zimmerman and essentially ambushed him.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

We all hate thieves.

But the law says you can't kill people for stealing.

 

Massad Ayoob said that texas allows to use lethal force to protect property. I am not in Texas and don't plan to be there often so it does not matter much to me if that is true or not.

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

Massad Ayoob said that texas allows to use lethal force to protect property. I am not in Texas and don't plan to be there often so it does not matter much to me if that is true or not.

 

 

As a former resident of Texas I can verify that Texas law does say that. There was a case in Fritch where a woman shot someone who was stealing her firewood.

The sympathy was all with the corps.

 

 

Duffield

 

 

[Utah Bob #35998]

Massad Ayoob said that texas allows to use lethal force to protect property. I am not in Texas and don't plan to be there often so it does not matter much to me if that is true or not.

My error. I apologize to the Texicans here for not adding "except for Texas".

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Why couldn't we just chop off fingers?