Subdeacon Joe Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 http://threepercenternation.com/2014/09/litigation-nation-lowes-pays-1-6m-settlement-over-2x4-labeling/# The order, handed down by Judge Paul M. Haakenson, came as a response to a case involving claims by the Marin County, Calif., district attorney’s office that the retailer “unlawfully advertised structural dimensional building products for sale.” According to the judgement, the retailer was ordered to pay $1.47 million in civil penalties and costs of the investigation, and an additional $150,000 to fund further consumer protection-related activities. Lowe’s spokesperson Amanda Manna said the company has begun to conform to the product description requirements in nearly 100 of its stores across California. “Consumers should expect when making product purchases that retailers are providing accurate information,” said Marin County District Attorney Edward S. Berberian. “Especially when misinformation could adversely affect building projects that more often than not rely on precise measurements.” In a statement, Cobb added: “Periodically, representatives of local Weights and Measures departments visit retailers, and they expressed concerns about common product measurements, such as a 2×4 piece of lumber. Read more at http://threepercenternation.com/2014/09/litigation-nation-lowes-pays-1-6m-settlement-over-2x4-labeling/ Seems like everyone except the DA and the people at Weights and Measures know that a 2 X 4 is the rough cut dimension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Except that it's not even the rough cut dimension anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Louis Suomi SASS #31905 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Hasn't been a 2x4 for a LONNNNG time. Where was this person hiding? In a cave???? The judge must have been in that same cave - D'uhhhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Lordy...! I hope them folks don't start selling anvils...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Mosby Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, October 27, 2014 - political rudeness Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, October 27, 2014 - political rudeness I hate to admit it but this whole country has gotten so out of whack that it mostly doesn't register anymore. If it's something in my immediate area that affects me or someone I care about, then I pay attention to it. Otherwise, they can all go to he77 as far as I care. I know, I should fight the good fight, and locally I do. But the idiot in chief is going to do what he pleases regardless of how many letters, call or emails I send. The idiots that once upon a time went to Washington to REPRESENT the folks that elected them, these days really don't give a damn because they think they are the only ones smart enough to tell the rest of us how to live. Ok, Rant off. Link to comment
DocWard Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 That one just gave me a headache. I've known that since I was ten years old, if that. And good taxpayer money was wasted in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Next they'll be suing because their car can't actually go 120 mph, even though the speedometer goes that high. Anyone who doesn't know that 2 x 4's aren't actually that size has no business building anything larger than a dog house. And for those here who wonder WHY they aren't that size, I have been told by reliable sources that they are cut to that size but shrink when drying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 You mean to tell me that a 2 x 4 isn't a 2 x 4? Huh. No wonder when I measure once and cut twice it is still too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bristol Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The thing that really gets me is the judges don't throw these things right out of court. They need to stop some of these idiotic laws suits instead of letting them go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The thing that really gets me is the judges don't throw these things right out of court. They need to stop some of these idiotic laws suits instead of letting them go through. Judges are all lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Scatterbrain Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 You would think the California government, and especially the DA, would have more important things to do. I think I will sue Ford and Chevy because their half-ton trucks weigh closer to three tons, nor is the payload limited to a thousand pounds. It reminds me of a tv I bought back in the late nineties. The box said "26 inch screen (27 inches outside US)". I remember thinking , wth does it expand and contract or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 People in the US have become suit happy for any reason to make a fast buck. Unfortunately there are tooooo damn many lawyers that thrive on this mindset. Not a fan of Japan, but their legal system doesn't allow civil suits except for extreme cases and those have to be approved by the judges before it can go anywhere. Maybe it's time we started doing that. We need more unemployed lawyers and ambulance chasers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 My house was built in 1959 and it DOES have 2X4's. Shortly after that they started skimming the dimensions, at least around here anyway. So they haven't been 2X4 for at least 50+years!!! Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I bought some "dimensional" lumber to make a project. As it so happened the width and thickness had no bearing on the project. Good thing because what I bought was actually 1.5 x 3 rather that a "real 2x4" which is 1.75 x 3.75. To be fair it was advertised by a different name, which I cannot remember and was considerably cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 It is ironic that this thread has come up. Just today, I was wondering what I was going to do with some wood I got a couple of years ago. It is pine that came out of a house (mansion back then) that was built in 1894. The wood was mostly planks that came out of the attic and some 2" x 4" studs. The 2" x 4: studs are actually that size. The planks and studs have no knots in them, just nail holes. All of the wood smells like it was just cut and came out of the mill. Just kinda funny that this thread came up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The lawyer for the defense must have been particularly incompetent. It should have been easy to prove that 2X4s have not actually measured that much for one heckuva long time, and architects and structural engineers are aware of that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I'm a lawyer, and I've known since childhood that a 2x4 ain't. If you bash me, though, please don't do it with a 2x4; a 2x2 will suffice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 According to Motley Fool: Another frivolous lawsuits is where Subway was sued because their “Footlong” subs were only 11 inches long. (Good read there, by the way) In their article about the 2x4 settlement, Motley Fool said: "What's surprising is why the home center agreed to settle. Lowe's says it allows the company to move forward to 'meet our shared goals.' All too often companies decide it's simply cheaper to settle these cases instead of fight them, but -- though it can be costly in the short term to crusade against frivolous lawsuits -- acquiescing only emboldens lawyers to continue to file more bizarre lawsuits down the road." So what does “meet our shared goals” mean? Sounds like CorporateSpeak for “Cheaper to settle than go to trial”. Not to mention: “Let’s make it even MORE expensive to do business in California!” And as the Fool also pointed out.... "People outside of California often shake their heads in wonderment at what passes for reason in the state. The bureaucrats solved a problem that didn't exist, and consumers aren't any more protected than they were before." At least it is never boring in the great state of “The Government Must Protect You From Yourself”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Notice that the money went to the state and not an individual. Seems CA Weights and Measures people needed funds for a new yacht or some such. Reminds me of when West Coast Choppers was find by CARB for failure to meet polution standards on motorcycle they sold. Jessie James offered to make the required repairs but CARB only wanted the fine paid. Oddly enough the repairs would have been significantly more costly to the business than than the fines. WCC paid the fine and the non-compliant motorcycles were never fixed. CARB was more interested in the money than the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I don't think people wonder why we bash lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Scatterbrain Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait: do I smell an Onion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Did you hear the one about............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 As best as I can tell from the short article, this was an enforcement action brought by the State, apparently charging that Lowe's was misrepresenting the actual dimensions of lumber they sold. I expect that CA has some regulation or statute that makes it illegal to do so, and the powers that be interpreted this to be a violation. Forget about reality; anyone who has ever worked with dimensional lumber knows that the final dimensions of kiln dried lumber are smaller than the nominal size; no one is getting cheated or shorted; it's basically a term of art. Litigation is a blunt instrument; it lacks the finesse of fine distinctions. If you want to piss on someone over this kind of thing, take aim at the legislators who passed the statute, the weights and measures folks who decided to apply and enforce it in this instance, and the DA who decided that it was worthy of prosecution; these were the folks that had some discretion to act or not to act. Once it's filed, the lawyers and the judge have a job to do, and cannot disregard the language of the statute. I can't imagine the justification for a fine of over a million dollars, other than to assume that State greed was involved. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I can't imagine the justification for a fine of over a million dollars, other than to assume that State greed was involved. LL +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 can't imagine the justification for a fine of over a million dollars, other than to assume that State greed was involved. In Kalifornia???? Surely you jest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 http://threepercenternation.com/2014/09/litigation-nation-lowes-pays-1-6m-settlement-over-2x4-labeling/# Seems like everyone except the DA and the people at Weights and Measures know that a 2 X 4 is the rough cut dimension. What's wrong with your link? It jumps all over the place and is almost impossible to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Balz, SASS#46599 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm kind of with Bill Shakespeare on the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawnee McGrutt Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm kind of with Bill Shakespeare on the subject Why pollute the oceans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bristol Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm a lawyer, and I've known since childhood that a 2x4 ain't. If you bash me, though, please don't do it with a 2x4; a 2x2 will suffice! you mean a 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I am as guilty of lawyer bashing as most on the forum but I needed one after a bad car accident in which the other driver had no insurance, no driver's license, no current vehicle registration and was obviously driving way too fast for the road conditions. Thank goodness, I found a good lawyer. If I had not, things would really be grim around here. My insurance company is fighting me for every dollar they have to put out although I have carried Uninsured motorist and under insured motorist since they became available. Don't let them tell you that "they are on your side". Not happening. They were eager to pay the minimal value of our totaled car but felt their responsibility ended there. It has been dragging for 11 months now and I still have another court date. I hoped it woould be completely settled in 12 months. May not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Noz, consider the case of our former DA (now Superior Court Judge), Ernie LiCalsi... Madera Co. settles with illegal resident Fella hits the DA's teenage son's car, has no license, no insurance, gave a phony name, and was an illegal alien "undocumented worker" to boot.... and sues the DA for $1.25 million. Settled for $162,500 and went back to Mexico to smoke expensive ceegars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Getting bashed comes with the territory in some professions. Lawyers, cops, politics. It has always been thus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I am as guilty of lawyer bashing as most on the forum but I needed one... Not all lawyers are bad; remember, only 95% of lawyers give the rest a bad name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm kind of with Bill Shakespeare on the subject Actually, Shakespeare thought highly of lawyers; the famous "First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" was spoken by Dick the Butcher, who was part of a movement seeking to overthrow the government by crippling its ability to handle the day-to-day business. By "killing all the lawyers", he hoped to eliminate the skilled lawyers and create havoc. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Hmmmm.... Hint of "contributing factors," perhaps...? Lowes Political Donations 2014 PAC Contribution Data Contributions from this PAC to federal candidates (list recipients)(15% to Democrats, 84% to Republicans) $562,000 Contributions to this PAC from individual donors of $200 or more ( list donors) $121,726 Official PAC Name:LOWE'S COMPANIES, INC. POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEELocation: MOORESVILLE, NC 28117Industry: Retail Sales; Hardware & building materials storesTreasurer: REINS, CYNTHIAFEC Committee ID: C00251751(Look up actual documents filed at the FEC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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