Knarley Bob Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Are dues to SASS going to be lowered seeing as how "They" won't be having to bear the burden of printing and mailing the Chronicle? Part of the dues where for that service................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Don't hold your breath, or bet on that to happen.......... LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 The Chronicle was not funded by your dues. Read the letter from Misty at the top of the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al OVERA, SASS#26238 Life Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 The Chronicle was not funded by your dues. Read the letter from Misty at the top of the page. So, basically, you now get nothing except the privilege of paying dues. HUH??? This on line CC sucks!! It is a real pain to try to read, as in order to follow an article, you gotta page back and forth, thru the ads to read it all. Needs a full re-format to have the articles in a continuous order. IMHO. I'm sorry now I spent the $$ to become a Life member to support the "Wild Bunch". Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 The Chronicle was not funded by your dues. Read the letter from Misty at the top of the page. It sure didn't fall out of the sky, either. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 It sure didn't fall out of the sky, either. LG Have you read the letter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Have you read the letter? Yeah- LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Looks like we have folks complaining about no printed CC that can not read???? Did anyone actually read that the CC was funded only by ads not dues and now that ad money is far less, well, they can't read so I guess it is worthless continuing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Taveras SASS#79313 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Looks like we have folks complaining about no printed CC that can not read???? Did anyone actually read that the CC was funded only by ads not dues and now that ad money is far less, well, they can't read so I guess it is worthless continuing. Less, is less.....Less shooters,Less shoots......equals more online stuff......where's all this new stuff....?????where are all these new Big shoots?????Where is this new GROWTH???????I hear talk about all these "young" shooters?????? I don't see it.........I'm still here and love to shoot........Just don't know where to go.....Tuco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Its BS ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knarley Bob Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Looks like we have folks complaining about no printed CC that can not read???? Did anyone actually read that the CC was funded only by ads not dues and now that ad money is far less, well, they can't read so I guess it is worthless continuing. Yup..............when all else fails, get nasty. We are talking about a ............AND I QUOTE..........."A Membership Fulfillment". It does NOT matter where the money comes from, it IS still part of the deal of being a MEMBER.........HELLO!!!!!!!!!!! For $55.00.....one gets A membership card A rule book A badge A pin And a sticker. Now THAT is a value packed deal if I ever heard of one. After the first year, ya get............. A new card & A sticker. Where is the $55.00 going??? It sure isn't doing me any good. Where is there ANY value of spending money on nothing? At least the paper had some value, and that's more the point. We ain't askin' for something for nothing, but don't want nothing for something. If that doesn't make sense, there is nothing I can do for you....... Knarley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 The Chronicle was not funded by your dues. Read the letter from Misty at the top of the page. Oh, please ... where do you think the money came from? I don't think Davis ponied up for it out of his pocket and it's tough to believe the CC advertising paid for it. But if that's wrong, then okay, I'm wrong....big deal. It doesn't matter; the hard copy is gone and we'll get used to it. Look ... the facts are that SASS has made the change. Nobody is going to beat up on Misty about this and she doesn't deserve it anyway, being a good, top, hired hand. I like Misty very much, as many of you do and I don't think anyone attacking her will get very far. So, please don't. Misty, (and maybe, others) is attempting to act as spokesperson and as a change agent for this ailing organization. I did that as a consultant for a number of years. It is not pretty and causes a lot of grief to employees (there are not many in SASS, though). In this case, those being affected are the membership and we've already seen the grief that's caused to many members. In this case, this is a mini corporate reorganization and believe me, it's not pretty. But, if you do continue to object to the hardcopy CC being discontinued (I don't like it being discontinued either, and I believe that discontinuing the hardcopy CC should have been handled differently) and the other changes, which are coming that almost certainly will include a hike in annual membership fees, it will come to naught, so my advice is to save your energy. God knows I'm expending too much energy already by posting this long-winded opinion piece, but I'm doing it anyway. Besides, you'll be shouted down (or they'll try, anyway) by the weak, brown-nosing Internet thugs who think they own the Wire, trying to make you look bad, and the truth of that is that most of us have better things to do than to even respond to that @$$clown element. Don't get me wrong, disagreement is fine but slimy attacks are not. The majority of the active membership who do not frequent the wire (my guess?.....maybe 98% of the membership) probably do not even know yet that the CC hard copy format has been cancelled, and it's likely that few consider it important enough to say anything about it, or they simply hide their resentment. They, like the rest of the population, choose their fights and conserve their energy and resources to manage the more important things in life, such as surviving in a weak economy, providing for and paying attention to their families and seeing to other, more important things. My guess is that the real difficulty for SASS will come down the road when the IRS audits this close-working alliance of privately owned and non-profit corporations, all controlled by the same one, two, or very few individuals. All legal, I'm sure, but possibly open to interpretation later. A non-profit status may put SASS, a group of organized gunowners, under the IRS microscope. That's probably where the problems will come from...a political attack. That's a lot of gun owners with a common alliance and the Internet as their means to communicate. We'll be looked at as terrorists, then. The IRS is a means to break it up. That's something to watch for and it should be a priority to get a real legal opinion about that and mitgate it right now, from that perspective. I trust that SASS is doing that and that they have not hired the low bidder law firm. We don't know so many things about the inner workings of SASS. Many say the membership is not entitled to know all the inner workings and facts, and many others believe that the investment of long-term membership and support by much of the membership, morally and ethically does entitle the membership to know. This game has become a way of life for many and I believe that long-term pact gives the membership a right to ask basic, significant questions and get straight, intimate answers. But, personally, it doesn't impact me enough to go digging. Fact is, I like you (most of you anyway) have way too many other things going on in my life to worry about all this too much. This is (by necessity) about number 25 or lower on my list of important things and if it all goes away tomorrow I'll be very, very disappointed, but I'll put it aside and continue with life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Am I the only one who really does not care? I never read the Chronicle anyway. Very, very little in it interests me. Really, how interesting is it to see complete strangers smiling at the camera holding onto their trophies? That's just about all there is in the Chronicle. Oh yeah, don't let me forget about not having to read any more of Tex's Tirades about how we don't understand how important his idea of costuming is. I for one will not miss it at all, and will not be trying to read it on line. What do the dues go to? Being able to compete in SASS sanctioned matches, just like the dues in ATA or any other competitive shooting sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Yup..............when all else fails, get nasty. We are talking about a ............AND I QUOTE..........."A Membership Fulfillment". It does NOT matter where the money comes from, it IS still part of the deal of being a MEMBER.........HELLO!!!!!!!!!!! For $55.00.....one gets A membership card A rule book A badge A pin And a sticker. Now THAT is a value packed deal if I ever heard of one. After the first year, ya get............. A new card & A sticker. Where is the $55.00 going??? It sure isn't doing me any good. Where is there ANY value of spending money on nothing? At least the paper had some value, and that's more the point. We ain't askin' for something for nothing, but don't want nothing for something. If that doesn't make sense, there is nothing I can do for you....... Knarley Better deal then what I get with my NRA membership by a long shot. Did you know the the number 2 at NRA is paid a million dollars a year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red River Ray SASS#33254 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I renewed on friday. Shot a match today and guess WHAT? Nobody even mentioned tha CC!!!! Wonder why? RRR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Why do we continue to re-tread this road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Well c'mon pard's! Let's sort this here CC business out like true cowboys. That's an all in saloon punch up brawl, complete with busted chairs & tables, or, a full on shootout down at the coral. Me, I'm a just hitching up the wagin and movin' on ta tha next shoot! Yeehaa! Forward ho!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewey Cheatem, SASS #75620 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 People are going to continue to shoot whether SASS is here or not. People are going to continue to join SASS with or without the CC. Take a deep breath and continue on. I think dropping the CC is crap because I was told it was part of my dues. I have a computer so I can still read it if I want. I stay now for the friends and extended family I've met. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Hello, I believe that the WB loves this sport. After all, they created it. Why would they not want it to succeed. That success would be a testament to their vision. I'm not privy to any inside information, so don't get the wrong idea. This is just my opinion. The WB has done very well growing SASS since the 80s and I am willing to support their decision to put Misty in charge to lead the SASS family into the future. I hope you will take a step back from the animosity I see in some of your posts and give our beloved sport a chance to continue growing under new leadership. Please don't give up on SASS just because of the decision to make the Chronicle digital. Sincerely, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty Jack Hammer Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 When I joined (not that awful long ago) I didn't even know about the CC until I was signing up over the phone and was asked how I would like to receive my CC? I asked what that was and then being a "nearly" 50 year old techno geek I decided to get the email version which I download as a PDF and keep in my iBooks library on my iPad in a special collection called Cowboy Chronical..... Hmmm not sure where I was going with this...oh yeah, my point was I just joined SASS because I wanted to be a member of an organization that had a bunch of cool folks who dressed up like cowboys, shot cool guns at metal targets that went CLANG!!! And then I found out i got a little magazine to read too.... Albeit digital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoney Creek Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Driftwood Johnson nailed it as usual+++++++++++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The CC is not the problem, it is just a symptom. The WB is trying to change the way SASS is being operated......at least that is part of want MM had to say in her letter (Yes I read it...several times). If they are really serious about converting the business to a nonprofit, then the real change is just getting started. They will need a set of ByLaws, elect a Board of Directors from the membership and elect officers. The WB will have to stand for election just like any member who wants to run. Open books for any member to peruse. Scrutiny by state and fed tax people. etc, etc. Anyone who has ever been envolved in a large NP knows what I am referring too. Stand by............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The CC is not the problem, it is just a symptom. The WB is trying to change the way SASS is being operated......at least that is part of want MM had to say in her letter (Yes I read it...several times). If they are really serious about converting the business to a nonprofit, then the real change is just getting started. They will need a set of ByLaws, elect a Board of Directors from the membership and elect officers. The WB will have to stand for election just like any member who wants to run. Open books for any member to peruse. Scrutiny by state and fed tax people. etc, etc. Anyone who has ever been envolved in a large NP knows what I am referring too. Stand by............. SASS can become a nonprofit and operate much the same as they do now. If they incorporate as a board only npo, which I would guess is the plan, then the board aka wild bunch will elect their successors. Don't forget a board only npo can have "members" (in name only) they just don't vote for board positions. The "members" could be allowed to vote for certain things at the discretion of the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mule Town Jack Sass #20083 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I have not seen any figures on how much the CC brings in each year. We do know that it cost $360 thousand to publish on a yearly basis. Now, if it loses say,$100,000 dollars a year it seems to me that raising the dues a small amount may save the print edition. If there are 60,000 paying members that would only be about $1.70 per member per year. Even if I am comfortable with the digital edition I would be comfortable paying another couple of bucks to keep the printed edition. I know that it is an advantage to hand an old copy of the CC to new shooters and visitors when they come to our club. I love this game and want to see as many people playing the game as possible. Any thing that promotes the game is a good thing. My wife and I both shoot and receive one CC. That's fine with us and so is paying an extra $4.00 a year in dues. I'll step down from my saddle now. MTJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I have not seen any figures on how much the CC brings in each year. We do know that it cost $360 thousand to publish on a yearly basis. Now, if it loses say,$100,000 dollars a year it seems to me that raising the dues a small amount may save the print edition. If there are 60,000 paying members that would only be about $1.70 per member per year. Even if I am comfortable with the digital edition I would be comfortable paying another couple of bucks to keep the printed edition. I know that it is an advantage to hand an old copy of the CC to new shooters and visitors when they come to our club. I love this game and want to see as many people playing the game as possible. Any thing that promotes the game is a good thing. My wife and I both shoot and receive one CC. That's fine with us and so is paying an extra $4.00 a year in dues. I'll step down from my saddle now. MTJ That might work if there were 60,000 members. Data released in pinned thread above shows far fewer members, remember Life members provide no income. Further a large percentage of the existing members get no printed CC. Our family has been using the electronic version since it came out. Further why would the large number of members already getting the electronic version want to pay to subsidize those that insist on the printed version. Misty has it right now, if you want the paper copy, pay for it. No different than many newspapers and magazines across the country. You can read the on line version (with much few ads) for free, but have to pay a subscription service for the printed copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mule Town Jack Sass #20083 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 ok, let's say there are only 30,000 members. Now your dues went up $3.50 a year. I am just trying to make sure everybody gets the CC in the format they are most comfortable with. I guess I don't mind paying a little extra to make everybody comfortable. This is already an expensive game so I would like to spread the cost over the total membership. An extra $35 dollars a year won't break me but it could be a hardship on some. Advertisers want to reach as many people as possible and those not comfortable with digital format may not subscribe to the print edition and therefore not read the CC at all. MTJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Where's the link to sign up for the printed copy...I lost it $35 extra works for me. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 ok, let's say there are only 30,000 members. Now your dues went up $3.50 a year. I am just trying to make sure everybody gets the CC in the format they are most comfortable with. I guess I don't mind paying a little extra to make everybody comfortable. This is already an expensive game so I would like to spread the cost over the total membership. An extra $35 dollars a year won't break me but it could be a hardship on some. Advertisers want to reach as many people as possible and those not comfortable with digital format may not subscribe to the print edition and therefore not read the CC at all. MTJ So as life members we have to start paying so you can have your printed copy of the CC? Can you understand why some would not be in favor of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Where's the link to sign up for the printed copy...I lost it $35 extra works for me. GG ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas John Ringo, SASS #10138 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Food for thought. Most of you do realize that the Wire is a very small sampling of the overall “customer” base for SASS, right? If this many “customers” are dissatisfied here on the wire, what do you think the number is overall? If the same percent of “customers” leave, whose fault is it? And SASS fails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The math is all wonky. 32,000 active members. Raise the dues for everyone so you can get a paper copy. How about the Driftwoods who don't care! or like myself, I'm fine with the electronic version. So don't go raising my dues to cover your inability to see why they did it. Non-profits don't have to elect the board from the members. We are not part of the non-profit. We are customers paying to be a member. We're not investing in the corp. And there are clearly defined corporate laws on how a non-profit can also use facilities and services from the same people who are on both boards. The non-profit has to be created and approved by the IRS and the State. And both are subject to filing taxes each year. So the idea that they are trying to pull something off is ridiculous. What I'm concerned with is the number of active members! My money is on SASS has been declining in its membership. We should all be concerned about that. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Does it really matter what medium the Chronicle is delivered to you? Sure makes it easier to store for future reference instead of a pile of papers in a cardboard box. An article that may interest new/prospective shooters can be printed and handed out as needed. You can print out BIG pictures of yourself should you ever appear in print. You can search for KEY WORDS instead of reading the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I only read it when some one on here would say something in it was good.I am glad that they are saving the trees so YUL LOSE will have more wood to make more carts and boxes.Love them carts and boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Where's the link to sign up for the printed copy...I lost it $35 extra works for me. GG Doesn't anyone know where a link can be found or how the process to get a printed copy can be obtained? What about the folks who already ponied up to do so. Help a fellow cowpoke pards. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eastwood Kid Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Doesn't anyone know where a link can be found or how the process to get a printed copy can be obtained? What about the folks who already ponied up to do so. Help a fellow cowpoke pards. GG I did it by phone, Gunner, by calling the following #: 877-411-7277 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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