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Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971

Neighbors Sue Founders Ranch

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:FlagAm::FlagAm::FlagAm::FlagAm::FlagAm:

 

I sure hope it goes well. These things get really ugly and really EXPENSIVE. New Mexico may have a "we were here first law" on the books. I sure hope so.

I was told that Iowa's legislature made a law that protects established ranges from this BS. Nebraska's Unicameral was pondering this about 5 years ago. But I don't know how it turned out.

 

We are planning to put a CAS-only range on my property (on 200 acres). I have been talking to the neighbors and have not had any adverse answers so far. Things may change when I bring around an agreement for them to sign.

 

MG

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The folks from SASS better hope none of their less friendly neighbors has deep pockets and a solid desire to run em off. They don't HAVE TO be RIGHT. They just have to make it too COSTLY to defend against their complaints. More than a couple of F&Gs have lost their ranges by being bankrupted by legal costs trying to defend against unending suits. When they start making technical claims requiring expert defenses, or find some subspecies of lead-sensitive bug living thereabouts, look out.

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Adirondack Jack is right. Civil cases can be very expensive to defend. Beyond lawyers writing legal crap they can spend a bunch of cash on sound studies, traffic studies, ground water contamination, safety policies and procedures etc.

 

The unfortunate element of a conditional use permit is that it can be rescinded for any infraction outside of the conditions for approval. And as SASS has learned they can deny any additional expansion of events, operating hours etc.

 

The who was there first is not a defense in any case dealing with neighbors who object to something. We call them NIBY's, or "Not in my Backyard". Given enough political and legal pressure many 'I was there first' people have had to leave or shut down.

 

And no matter what all of you are willing to put up with it has nothing to do with what the locals will put up with.

 

Reality is a bitch sometimes.

Ike

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Well,

 

Help me understand what is the nature of the residents complaints. Cowboy venues are not a daily occurence and only occasional for a fixed period. Seems like the locals are complaing about shooting other than the Cowboy Matches.

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

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There needs to be a "I was here first." clause in all zoning laws.

They need shooting range protection laws like we have here in Va.

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Well,

 

Help me understand what is the nature of the residents complaints. Cowboy venues are not a daily occurence and only occasional for a fixed period. Seems like the locals are complaing about shooting other than the Cowboy Matches.

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

They have apparently been using the property for shotgun clay target shooting open to the general public from what I have read. Not CAS related at all.

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Cowboy Action Shooting started in Coto de Caza Calif. at the Shooting range which also had Skeet and Trap range in 1982 for End of Trail. Each year we would have End of Trail there and in late 1987 after EoT, SASS was formed. We shot there for 10 years and each year houses got closer and closer to the Range. 1991 was the last EoT there and SASS had to move out because someone bitched about Sunday AM shooting. We went without a range to shoot our monthly matches at for 5 months. We found Rauhagees and shot End of Trail there 1992 with smoking piles of Cowsh!t for berms, burning and smelling, flies everywhere. We thought it was a Sh!tty place, but better than no place at all. We shot towards the parking lot with the River at out back.

 

The next year the whole Range had been turned around and Berms covered with 3 feet of new dirt to Stop the smell and put out the Fires. Helped keep the flies away too. We had a Home and did lots of Range improvements putting in Electricity and Water Storage containers for the Targets. 2004 was the last End of Trail shot there because the rent was getting to high. I heard $35,000 for the week for EoT, Eot was always shot in mid-late April (my Birthday) week and 15 of the 20 Eot's I attended, I had my birthday there. What a Party.

 

Founders Ranch was purchased and SASS moved to New Mexico. Bye! April was the month always used, but the weather isn't the same as SoCal they found out. Freezing rain, Snow, Mud, Stuck Trucks. So June was it from then on. Looks like 10 years for the first location, 13 years for the second one. Now going on 9 years for Founders Ranch, it will be up to some people other than the Cowboy Action Shooters who will decide our Fate. Myself, I would like to see the return to SoCal. When it was held here, Families would plan trips for EoT along with Trips to Disneyland, Knotts Berry Farm, Magic Mountain, Ocean trips, sightseeing. We had radio stations telling people about EoT and bring the Family to watch CAS and Mounted Shooting and "The Wild West Show"

I haven't heard about the 10,000 spectators at EoT in New Mexico, but that's what we had in SoCal, and they all paid to get in. Can you say $$$$$$$$$?

 

I hope whatever happens, SASS survives this lawsuit and continues to be the most fun you an have with your clothes on. I know it put a Smile on my Face you couldn't grind off with a Belt Sander. Just sayin'

 

Big Jake Sass #1001 Life.

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Any word on what is going on?

 

Painted Filly

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lets see

here in pahrump, folks bought land / houses close to the dairy

now the dairy is gone

 

folks in vegas, bought house all around nellis AFB, good luck closing that down

 

the sass range in is a gully, I am sure that the sound does not travel very far

 

The usa in not even close ta what it once was, to bad so sadd

 

we the folks are screwing up our country just as fast as the folks we elect to represent us

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Any word on what is going on?

 

Painted Filly

 

Yup - today is the decision right?

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Yes so was curious to see.

 

Painted Filly

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She must be from New York, they think they have the right to tell everyone else how to live

 

NO SODA BIGGER THAN 16oz

NO GUNS

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I wish the ones complaining would just get enough money up and make an offer for the property. Then SASS may move to a more friendly location say Alabama. Ranges are protected and gun friendly. Land is probably cheaper weather is nice most of year and it is in Dixie the heart that is. :D

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Here here Big Jake could not have said it better myself. Bring EoT back to SoCal. Sorry blue wolf don't think you'll have many takers to go to Alabama regardless of how gun friendly a state it might be! IMHO

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And I'll bet the ones whining the loudest all bought and moved in well after SASS started operating Founders Ranch.

 

Several ranges here got closed down the same way, sheesh people, when you buy a house, don't you check and see what else is around it? I do.

Had the same sort of thing happened when I was in the military. People move in then complained about the aircraft flying over

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you can not even see a house from the range

cept for the ranch house that belongs on that property

folks are barkin up the wrong tree

its to bad

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you can not even see a house from the range

cept for the ranch house that belongs on that property

folks are barkin up the wrong tree

its to bad

The problem is they keep "barkin"! Loud dogs who bark long enough usually get someone to listen in the end. :(

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The more I think about this situation, the more I think the issue is about guns and not about noise.

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Of course it is. The noise is not vey loud for the neighbors I bet they can barely hear it.

 

Painted Filly

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"..........I haven't heard about the 10,000 spectators at EoT in New Mexico, but that's what we had in SoCal, and they all paid to get in. Can you say $$$$$$$$$?

I hope whatever happens, SASS survives this lawsuit and continues to be the most fun you an have with your clothes on. I know it put a Smile on my Face you couldn't grind off with a Belt Sander. Just sayin'

 

Big Jake Sass #1001 Life."

 

There were probably more people within a few miles of EOT when it was in So Cal, than there are in the entire county in NM. In fact, there were probably more people attending EOT when it was in So Cal, than there are in the entire county in NM. Lets see... 10,000 visitors X $5-$10 each=$50,000-$100,000, 100+ vendors X $500-$1000 each=$50,000-$100,000, and that is just the beginning.... I'd bet that there could be some money made if EOT were in So Cal.

 

Snakebite

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Here here Big Jake could not have said it better myself. Bring EoT back to SoCal. Sorry blue wolf don't think you'll have many takers to go to Alabama regardless of how gun friendly a state it might be! IMHO

 

Yeah, let's make sure that the East Coast shooters are really at a disadvantage!! I think we are way ahead of ourselves, but good gawd, I can't think of a worse place to relocate to than SoCal. Talk about being gun-unfriendly.

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Any shoot that charges the vendors that support it is just plain wrong!

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Any shoot that charges the vendors that support it is just plain wrong!

Wow! you don't seem to understand economics. Why would any store pay rent to Shopping Mall? Because the Mall provides the shoppers, and the the store/vendor wants that access. As the number of shoppers goes down, so does the rent.

This is NOT a charity organization. If you want Big things, it cost Big Money. Check with the NRA and see what a spot cost you at one of their matches.... if you think that they give them away, you would be wrong.

 

Snakebite

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Yeah, let's make sure that the East Coast shooters are really at a disadvantage!! I think we are way ahead of ourselves, but good gawd, I can't think of a worse place to relocate to than SoCal. Talk about being gun-unfriendly.

I agree DiD...with CA legislators just warming up on making more and more restrictive gun laws I just can't see taking such a large match and locating it there on purpose....even if there are 10,000 spectators each day and all the touristy things close by. And, all of the SASS shooters are not from CA and the states immediately adjacent to it. Seems to me that it should be more centrally located if it is to move at all.

 

All that said...the Wild Bunch owns all of this and they will make the rules and have the say. Let's hope that they prevail in the decision and we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya. If they have to consider relocating I hope that they get input from all concerned and give the matter careful consideration. Then they will make the best decision for their business enterprise and we will all live with the decision regardless of what it is.

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I agree DiD...with CA legislators just warming up on making more and more restrictive gun laws I just can't see taking such a large match and locating it there on purpose....even if there are 10,000 spectators each day and all the touristy things close by. And, all of the SASS shooters are not from CA and the states immediately adjacent to it. Seems to me that it should be more centrally located if it is to move at all.

 

All that said...the Wild Bunch owns all of this and they will make the rules and have the say. Let's hope that they prevail in the decision and we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya. If they have to consider relocating I hope that they get input from all concerned and give the matter careful consideration. Then they will make the best decision for their business enterprise and we will all live with the decision regardless of what it is.

Yep, nothing against our pards from California, but relocating there would almost certainly affect attendance, and not in a good way. I have no interest in entering that particular jurisdiction.

 

Let's hope SASS wins their case. If not, a gun friendly state might be a good idea. Texas maybe, or better yet the great state of Georgia has a nice ring to it.

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The problem is they keep "barkin"! Loud dogs who bark long enough usually get someone to listen in the end. :(

Or shot. Loud dogs that is. Not people.

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I agree DiD...with CA legislators just warming up on making more and more restrictive gun laws I just can't see taking such a large match and locating it there on purpose....even if there are 10,000 spectators each day and all the touristy things close by. And, all of the SASS shooters are not from CA and the states immediately adjacent to it. Seems to me that it should be more centrally located if it is to move at all.

 

All that said...the Wild Bunch owns all of this and they will make the rules and have the say. Let's hope that they prevail in the decision and we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya. If they have to consider relocating I hope that they get input from all concerned and give the matter careful consideration. Then they will make the best decision for their business enterprise and we will all live with the decision regardless of what it is.

Like KK said. All the good shooters are back East. That is what you're trying to say, right?

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Like KK said. All the good shooters are back East. That is what you're trying to say, right?

Went back and re-read his post and I still can't find any sign of him saying anything like that.

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The problem is they keep "barkin"! Loud dogs who bark long enough usually get someone to listen in the end. :(

the sad thing is that your are very correct with that statement

I hope the lay of the land falls to the favor of the ranch, the shotgun range is probably what they hear and that is not down in the gully

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SASS should release a press statement that they understand the concerns of a couple of the neighbors about the shooting. SASS has tried to be a good neighbor but does not desire to be involved in protracted law suits. As a result, SASS is in the process of negotiating a deal to sell the land to Corporate Corrections of America. CCA plans to open a half way house and work release program for New Mexico's criminally insane.

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Large

 

Wow! you don't seem to understand economics. Why would any store pay rent to Shopping Mall? Because the Mall provides the shoppers, and the the store/vendor wants that access. As the number of shoppers goes down, so does the rent.

This is NOT a charity organization. If you want Big things, it cost Big Money. Check with the NRA and see what a spot cost you at one of their matches.... if you think that they give them away, you would be wrong.

 

Snakebite

Large fees for vending only prevent smaller vendors from attending. Add to that the fact that we are expected to "donate" goods or services to the door prize cache, and in some cases are required to use or rent a tent or other items that don't work well with our displays or operation. By the time we haul our goods and equipment a thousand miles or more, access lodging, and if you're like me shoot the match, promote the match, and feed yourself, you've got two or three thousand dollars spent before you even get set up! With the economic climate what it is, that's not sound business practice for a small vendor with limited reserves.

 

I wish I could make it happen, but a number of vendors that I know have seen fit not to attend for this reason, some who have been there many times before.

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Pards IMHO, I don't think EOT will ever go back to Southern California. The gun laws are outrageous and there just aren't enough voting shooters to out vote the residents of LA, SD, & SF. The WB couldn't afford to buy land there to hold a match on. IFIRC, FR is somewhere near 500 acres. I dunno but I don't think you could find that much land suitable for shooting near a major metropolitan area for sale. Even if I'm wrong I don't think the WB could afford it. For them SASS & EOT is a business and they have to pay salaries & benefits to their staff and make money for themselves. I seem to remember that one of the reasons they made the move to N.M. is the lease cost for use of a range for EOT.

 

If SASS should lose the suit and are forced to sell the ranch & move they should look for a state that does not have county zoning laws and is w/in reasonable driving distance of a major city (air transportation, hotels & entertainment) and weather condusive to year round shooting and somewhat centrally located to the rest of the country.

 

Badlands you crack me up. :lol::lol::lol:

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Went back and re-read his post and I still can't find any sign of him saying anything like that.

Triple D likes to stir the pot and see what floats up to the surface!

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