Hud McCoy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Will definitely appeal this with our committee. Thanks for the thoughts. Hud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Personally, I can't see where it is a safety problem. But, I reckon your club can initiate certain guidelines and assess certain penalties thereof. Some clubs have a 'shot over the berm = MDQ' which is construde as a safety issue. Some clubs don't. Milage varies on this one.....IMHO ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I know that shooters are not allowed to dry fire at the loading table or shadow shoot the stage when called to the firing line to engage the stage. At my club we put to vote a rule that reads as follows: When the shooter is called to the firing line and they place their long guns at the designated spot or before placing their guns, they shoulder and aim their long gun at a target. We feel that this falls into the line of trying to gain a competitive advantage and we put it in the same category as dry firing and shadow shooting. Unless the stage instructions state that the shooter will begin with a gun pointed down range, the shooter shall not not aim any gun down range prior to the stage starting. With our rule we are implementing a 10 second MSV. Thoughts on this will be greatly appreciated. Hud McCoy A solution looking for a problem. So if it calls for Port Arms. And I am getting into postion. And I quickly bring it up to my shoulder just to make sure I got it all worked out, and take it right back down. It only takes 1 second. NO advantage as EVERYONE could do it. Then you are going to hit me with a MSV??? Again. Sounds like a solution looking for a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I know that shooters are not allowed to dry fire at the loading table or shadow shoot the stage when called to the firing line to engage the stage. At my club we put to vote a rule that reads as follows: When the shooter is called to the firing line and they place their long guns at the designated spot or before placing their guns, they shoulder and aim their long gun at a target. We feel that this falls into the line of trying to gain a competitive advantage and we put it in the same category as dry firing and shadow shooting. Unless the stage instructions state that the shooter will begin with a gun pointed down range, the shooter shall not not aim any gun down range prior to the stage starting. With our rule we are implementing a 10 second MSV. Thoughts on this will be greatly appreciated. Hud McCoy Insanity! Just one more rule that will be used by the locals to trap visitors. How is aiming a gun down range (with hammer down on empty chamber), unsafe needing a 10 second safety penalty? Please let us all know the location of this club so we can all avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Hawkins, SASS # 15254 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I know that shooters are not allowed to ...shadow shoot the stage when called to the firing line to engage the stage. Could you quote chapter and verse in the current shooter's handbook or ROI or ROII manuals on that? I think you might not know what you think you know. Kid Hawkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I know that shooters are not allowed to dry fire at the loading table or shadow shoot the stage when called to the firing line to engage the stage. At my club we put to vote a rule that reads as follows: When the shooter is called to the firing line and they place their long guns at the designated spot or before placing their guns, they shoulder and aim their long gun at a target. We feel that this falls into the line of trying to gain a competitive advantage and we put it in the same category as dry firing and shadow shooting. Unless the stage instructions state that the shooter will begin with a gun pointed down range, the shooter shall not not aim any gun down range prior to the stage starting. With our rule we are implementing a 10 second MSV. Thoughts on this will be greatly appreciated. Hud McCoy Competitive advantage??? You've GOT to be kidding?!?! These are the kind of rules that are truly stoopid...plain and simple. I mean...what's the big deal?? God I hate this type of thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 We're y'all having a big problem with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattler Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Absolutely stupid rule!! My first time shooting there would be my last!! Try just following SASS rules,it works!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Please share with us what the name of this club is. In my travels I'd like to be sure to avoid a mistake and attend matches where this kind of thinking is worth a board meeting. Like AA, if a stage calls for port arms or cowboy port arms a shooter getting ready by making sure that his at-the-ready is legal could be called MSV? WOW! A new all-time local rule low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I've found that, on occasion, it's been helpful to determine if I can actually engage all the targets from the position where I intend (or designated). In situations like that, it's necessary to shoulder the rifle to fine out. Examples include windows with bars and other places where height, flexibility, or position are critical. It's rare, but it has happened. I would suggest that you would be more likely to create a safety issue by making this rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C. W. Knight # 47289L Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Competitive advantage??? You've GOT to be kidding?!?! These are the kind of rules that are truly stoopid...plain and simple. I mean...what's the big deal?? God I hate this type of thinking... Gosh Phantom why don't you tell us what you really think. But I do agree with ya. C.W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Dry firing at the loading table IS NOT allowed. How do we know? We have a rule. RO1, page 20, item 30. Shadow shooting? This is one of what I call "the infamous non-rules." There simply is no rule. You can shadow shoot. Everyone does it, but the methods vary. Some do it in their head (raising my hand) and might take lots and lots of time doing it. But heaven help the person who points their finger or gives another visual indication that they're actually thinking about what they're going to do. Hang 'em I say. Reading between the lines here: I think you realize that this is a pile of nonsense and are looking for us to tell you so. Perhaps you were not in favor of this new rule. Rest assured, you're right on track. Nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENNESSEE DEADEYE SASS# 26785 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I've found that, on occasion, it's been helpful to determine if I can actually engage all the targets from the position where I intend (or designated). In situations like that, it's necessary to shoulder the rifle to fine out. Examples include windows with bars and other places where height, flexibility, or position are critical. It's rare, but it has happened. I would suggest that you would be more likely to create a safety issue by making this rule. I agree with Doc it can be necessary to see if you can engage the targets with out having to move. Just another Nazi mindless rule, completely un-necessary! I would avoid shooting with any club that does this. Tennessee Deadeye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hud McCoy Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yeah this should be revivsited by our club. Thanks for the input. For the record we are a good club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Duckett Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 For the last two years in a row at CAC, our PM told us to point rifle at targets before laying down rifle to be sure we knew how far through the jail house bars we need to be so we didn't shoot the bars. Different PMs each year. They were trying to prevent anyone from shooting the bars. Advantage? Yes. Unfair? No. Cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I will do this if I am uncomfortable with the prop or position. It's not a safety issue and takes no more time than someone that shoots a 70 second stage (nothing wrong with that either). There are still people in this game that are shocked when folks want to be competative at a shooting competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm not a fast shooter, but as others have said, sometimes if you are shooting thru a window or something, it helps to make sure you have room to swing and see all the targets. In my experierence, I beat the shooters slower than me and the faster ones beat me. If I want to change that, I gotta work at it. Not much I could do at the start of my stage will change that, it changes thru practice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice B. Dunn, SASS #3516 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Dry firing at the loading table IS NOT allowed. How do we know? We have a rule. RO1, page 20, item 30. Shadow shooting? This is one of what I call "the infamous non-rules." There simply is no rule. You can shadow shoot. I think various clubs and larger matches discourage "shadow shooting" as it slows down the match. If everybody were to shawdow shoot every stage by the time the match was over it would be mid-night ( no shadows at that hour unless it is a very bright moon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Can I use my finger? ..not THAT finger... Ya know...my finger being the barrel of a gun. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think various clubs and larger matches discourage "shadow shooting" as it slows down the match. If everybody were to shawdow shoot every stage by the time the match was over it would be mid-night ( no shadows at that hour unless it is a very bright moon) Well....I've been to 'various clubs' and 'larger matches' so maybe we need a better definition of "shadow shooting". If you mean walking up to the firing line and going to each station and pointing a finger at each target and saying "BANG" 24 times then ..... yes, not a single club or shoot that I know of will allow it. But, if you mean standing at the loading table and going through transitions, procedures and stage descriptions on your own time and in your own little space without leaving the table.... then, there's not a single club, rule or individual shooter that should have a darn thing to say about it. In fact, I don't know of a good shooter that doesn't do it... some sit on their carts and do it... some do it in line...some are subtle and some not so subtle but, all of them do it one how or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If you mean walking up to the firing line and going to each station and pointing a finger at each target and saying "BANG" 24 times then ..... yes, not a single club or shoot that I know of will allow it. But, if you mean standing at the loading table and going through transitions, procedures and stage descriptions on your own time and in your own little space without leaving the table.... then, there's not a single club, rule or individual shooter that should have a darn thing to say about it. In fact, I don't know of a good shooter that doesn't do it... some sit on their carts and do it... some do it in line...some are subtle and some not so subtle but, all of them do it one how or another. Ditto.. Rance My exact thinkin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well....I've been to 'various clubs' and 'larger matches' so maybe we need a better definition of "shadow shooting". If you mean walking up to the firing line and going to each station and pointing a finger at each target and saying "BANG" 24 times then ..... yes, not a single club or shoot that I know of will allow it. But, if you mean standing at the loading table and going through transitions, procedures and stage descriptions on your own time and in your own little space without leaving the table.... then, there's not a single club, rule or individual shooter that should have a darn thing to say about it. In fact, I don't know of a good shooter that doesn't do it... some sit on their carts and do it... some do it in line...some are subtle and some not so subtle but, all of them do it one how or another. Yep.....double Ditto! Actually, when you pay your $$$ and go to those big matches, every match I have attended wants each and every shooter to be safe and have fun. I've never witnessed any hassleing or heard of any club rule that tries to dictate this type of criteria to a shooter......fast, slow, male, female, ole or young. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If ya go to the 'Members Only' site the video: Air Gunning - A excerpt from the END of TRAIL 25th Anniversary Video is hilarious to watch ...remember to keep that 'finger' pointed in a safe direction GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winchester Jack, SASS #70195 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 the only time I ever "shadow shot" is to make sure I have a clear shot at the rifle targets over the pistol targets (cause I am kinda short) I usually ask the TO first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If ya go to the 'Members Only' site the video: Air Gunning - A excerpt from the END of TRAIL 25th Anniversary Video is hilarious to watch ...remember to keep that 'finger' pointed in a safe direction GG ~ I watched that awhile back. It IS funny. And YES. I do it sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I've found that, on occasion, it's been helpful to determine if I can actually engage all the targets from the position where I intend (or designated). In situations like that, it's necessary to shoulder the rifle to fine out. Examples include windows with bars and other places where height, flexibility, or position are critical. It's rare, but it has happened. I would suggest that you would be more likely to create a safety issue by making this rule. Bingo! Doc hit the nail on the head. I am 6' 5 1/2" tall. On some stages I have to make sure I can follow the stage directions. You would not believe the number of stages I have to shoot in a stooped (not stupid, although that is sometimes the case) posture. A quick trial mount of a long gun to make sure I can hit the frikkin' target should not be a penalty. Give us a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red River Ray SASS#33254 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Bingo! Doc hit the nail on the head. I am 6' 5 1/2" tall. On some stages I have to make sure I can follow the stage directions. You would not believe the number of stages I have to shoot in a stooped (not stupid, although that is sometimes the case) posture. A quick trial mount of a long gun to make sure I can hit the frikkin' target should not be a penalty. Give us a break. If mounting a long gun is a penalty then no one should shoot there, its that simple. RRR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'm a lefty, 6'2" tall, and slightly handicapped. If I have a question about a stage and whether or not I can safely negotiate it, this kind of rule is onerous and discriminatory. OR!! What RRR said!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It sounds like a couple pards have abused the shadow shooting on the line with their long guns in the attempt to stall for time while on the line to get their head into the game. I haven't noticed such practices,,,, (well, yes I can,,,, a grand dame does it) ....where I've shot. It is a bit annoying but since only one, tolerable. I can not remember "every" raising a long gun up to shoulder while on the line and before the beep to see if ???? I can shoot there. I have already scoped it out while brassing, ROing, setting targets or counting. I know. I know of one pard that paws the ground with his boot, adjust his glasses, picks his nose, shadow shoots while bobbing his head, adjust his hat, and readjust his guns several times before calling for the beep. Don't care for it, but oh well!!! Tbank goodness I don't shoot with him much. If all ya just go up and stage your firearms, look down range for a momeent at each shooting position, then get set in your shooting position and call for the beep.... what is your problem? You will never know there is a club rule for doing otherwise?? Oh yes, when the starting position calls for port arms,,,,, then I notice the ummmmm,,,,good ol boys,,,,, people extend their long gun out and pivot it several times so they cna get that "perfect" swivel point.... Oh well again, we know port arms is a joke and a poor starting position,,,,, IMNSHO. Care on,,, BTW, I wouldn't boycott a club with this local rule, Blastmaster (who thinks this is more of a local problem) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Well, isn't that special...... Why is it that people look for 'rules' where there ain't none and then, when that fails them they 'create' a 'club rule' to solve a NON-EXISTENT PROBLEM? Ok, so you gots you some 'competitors that take far too long at the firing line, setting their guns just so, wiggling this way and that, checking all the shooting positions one by one, hitch up their gunbelt just so, adjust their hat....just so and then HORROR OF HORRORS have the temerity to pick up their long gun SAFELY and check, just to make sure mind you, that their planned shooting er, plan will actually work with said long gun....just so. My goodness, I've RO'd a few shooters and every so often I git me a shooter that takes 'more than his or her fair share of time' gitting ready fer the beep. Big deal. If the posse's running on time, I ain't gonna fuss with it. Big deal. If the posse's late I might, AFTER THE SHOOTER IS FINISHED (because I wouldn't ever disrupt the shooter's routine and possibly spoil the stage for'em) POLITELY mention that we be running late and kindly speed things up. Then again, most of the time I don't say anything at the time, preferring to reserve comment until a more appropriate time. Unless it ain't my job to worry if the posse's on time and then I don't worry. Oh wait, I wasn't worrying before..... Competitive advantage....puuullleeezzzzzeeeee give me a break. At least tell me you was joking? Last time I looked our game WAS a competition. And, as a matter of fact, them dastardly 'competitors' seem to co-exist quite peacefully with the non-competitive bunch quite well thank you very much and certainly do not need to be bothered by silly rules. Oh yes, and I just HAVE to add this.....I too would put such a club on my do-not-fly....er, shoot list. OP: I know that shooters are not allowed to dry fire at the loading table or shadow shoot the stage when called to the firing line to engage the stage. At my club we put to vote a rule that reads as follows: When the shooter is called to the firing line and they place their long guns at the designated spot or before placing their guns, they shoulder and aim their long gun at a target. We feel that this falls into the line of trying to gain a competitive advantage and we put it in the same category as dry firing and shadow shooting. Unless the stage instructions state that the shooter will begin with a gun pointed down range, the shooter shall not not aim any gun down range prior to the stage starting. With our rule we are implementing a 10 second MSV. Thoughts on this will be greatly appreciated. Hud McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I know of one pard that paws the ground with his boot, adjust his glasses, picks his nose, shadow shoots while bobbing his head, adjust his hat, and readjust his guns several times before calling for the beep. Don't care for it, but oh well!!! Tbank goodness I don't shoot with him much. Blastmaster (who thinks this is more of a local problem) I do not pick my nose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I do not pick my nose... Never.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 This club rule is more stringent than most, though I do appreciate its purpose. The success of the rule will be shown in the long run of how many shooters continue to shoot at your club. I would prefer a verbal reminder during the safety meeting that shadow shooting slows down the match and is not acceptable behavior. Most of the cowboys and cowgals that I shoot with are only to happy to work with the desires of the club without having extra rules created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I do not pick my nose... Nah!!! It's his seat!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisler Wood Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Haven't posted much on the wire in the last year..........Posts like this are the reason why.....Same old crap different year....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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