Observation/Slip Hammer

[Scarlett]

I shoot FCGF and do not slip hammer. I did for a time when I first started and viewed it as a bad habit for ME - I shot between a lot of targets! lol.  
 

This past year we traveled a LOT. I shot with folks from all over and noticed…  shooters who have a lot of go arounds seem to slip hammer. Seems to me that in slip hammering, some function is not performing as it should and firing pin is not engaging the primer properly…  @Red River Ray SASS#33254 on rifles:  lever, trigger, lever, trigger… does the same not apply to pistols?

 

It seems to me that an awful lot of time is wasted going around… thereby eliminating ANY gained benefit of the method… 

 

Hugs!

Scarlett

 

 

[Rip Snorter]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I shoot FCGF and do not slip hammer. I did for a time when I first started and viewed it as a bad habit for ME - I shot between a lot of targets! lol.  
 

This past year we traveled a LOT. I shot with folks from all over and noticed…  shooters who have a lot of go arounds seem to slip hammer. Seems to me that in slip hammering, some function is not performing as it should and firing pin is not engaging the primer properly…  @Red River Ray SASS#33254 on rifles:  lever, trigger, lever, trigger… does the same not apply to pistols?

 

It seems to me that an awful lot of time is wasted going around… thereby eliminating ANY gained benefit of the method… 

 

Hugs!

Scarlett

 

 

Keith talks about it in one of his books.  His opinion, you did it and were stuck with it or didn't.  If I recall, it was a short range gunfighter trick. BTW, he didn't!

[Griff]

I shoot Frontiersman... and purposely repeat this manta... Hammer, front sight, trigger.  It might be why I'm slow... but when executed properly, I don't miss!  I think I've seen far more two-handed shooters slip hammer than Duelists or Gunfighters.   

[Dusty Devil Dale]

Try this:

Hold your arm straight, wrist straight and try to move your trigger finger without also causing a small amount of wrist flexure or rotation.  That translates into muzzle motion.

 

  Unless you are very unique, you cannot quiet the index finger tendons through the wrist.

That is why I like to slip hammer.  My grip hand can remain entirely quiet and Master Grip solid, while the non grip hand does the hammer work. 

 

For me, It has little to do with speed and a lot to do with steadiness.  

Edited April 15 by Dusty Devil Dale

[The Surgeon]

I'm starting to practice slip hammering more for speed. check out this video by deadeye on double taps I'm not sure if he slip hammers every shot but i think slip hammering on muti shot targets would be faster. 

 

[Yul Lose]

When I shot 2 handed I slip hammered and had very few misses and rarely had a light hit. I’ve tried slip hammering a few times as a gunfighter and had a bunch of misses, don’t know if more practice will fix that but I don’t do it anymore.

[Captain Bill Burt]

Years ago I asked one of our top shooters for advice on improving my times.  He watched a few of my videos and noted that I was slip hammering, which I wasn't.  

The reason he concluded that was because he couldn't see any appreciable trigger movement and the reason he couldn't was because I was (and still am) using pistols set up by Jimmy Spurs with his extra set back triggers.   Not only are they light, they have very little movement when firing and also very little reset.   Because of that I don't think slip hammering would save me any time. 

 

I almost hate to say this because I might jinx myself, but I can't recall the last time I had to do the Ruger go round.    I'm guessing 5 or 6 years ago at least. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I used to slip hammer only on dump targets, but in the last year or two I started slip hammering every shot.  The mindset shifts from when to pull the trigger, to when to let go of the hammer.   I have to do the "go-around" rarely.  This is two handed - no way I could do it when I shot gunfighter.

[Cayuse Jack, SASS #19407]

Scarlet, you are correct…

Something is not engaging the firing pin correctly.

 

When slip hammering a shooter lets the hammer slip off their thumb while holding the trigger back.

 

If the thumb drags on the hammer too much the hammer motion forward can be reduced enough to cause light strikes on the primer.

 

Thus causing the shooter to “ring around the Ruger”.

[Sedalia Dave]

A few years go there was a pole taken of the top shooters and IIRC none of them slip hammered. 

 

In videos it appeared they were slip hammering but when asked all said they pulled the trigger every time.

 

As a side note: more time can be shaved by first not missing and second by practicing better transitions.

 

Edited April 15 by Sedalia Dave

[Tyrel Cody]

I’ve never slip hammered, but used to have a lot of Ruger-Go-Rounds.  Lots and I mean LOTS of practice fixed it for the most part; then I bought short stroked revolvers and fixed it completely…

My problem back then I think was short thumbs and not getting the hammer pulled back far enough. 

 

[Kingsley]

Hey Scarlet,

  Ray slip hammered every pistol shot.  I do not consider myself in Ray's league (at his prime), but I slip hammer every shot also.

 

Cardboard

 

 

[Null N. Void]

When I shoot gunfighter, it's cock, then pull the trigger.  Two handed it's all slip hammer.  I don't have any go around issues.

[Sarge]

As a Gunfighter, my hands just aren't big enough to slip hammer.  

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Well Hey Scarlett!!

 

Ima Hybrid.  I double cock coming out of the leather, then alternate there after.  I have NEVER been able to slip hammer.  Especially with a gun in each hand.  Just doesn't work.  Most of the truly TOP shooters I have the pleasure of hanging out with, don't/didn't slip hammer either.

[Silver Creek Jack]

I slip hammer shooting 2 hand, duelist not at all, rairly have a ruger go round.

[Scarlett]

For clarification: I have NO INTEREST in slip hammering. 
 

I am still curious about the folks I see go around… fast shooters - what I would classify as top 15%…at a state match. With less than a second or two separating places, a go around could cost a win. 
 

@Captain Bill Burt I ONLY shoot Jimmy Spurs pistols  ! He’s the best! He said, “you don’t need a short stroke, you need a smooth stroke” and, get the full hammer strike. Half cock prevents any go around for me. And, the set back triggers are killer! 
 

Hugs!

Scarlett

 

[Cemetery]

On 4/14/2024 at 10:44 PM, Scarlett said:

Seems to me that in slip hammering, some function is not performing as it should and firing pin is not engaging the primer properly…

 

It was explained, and shown to me years ago. When you pull the hammer back with your thumb, and hold it, the cylinder slightly over rotates, thus potentially throwing the alignment off the firing pin and primer enough to get light/no hits on the primer. 

 

If I recall, it was explained/shown to me by some fast draw shooters at Winter Range on why their guns get setup such a way.

[Stump Water]

On 4/16/2024 at 9:35 AM, Cemetery said:

It was explained, and shown to me years ago. When you pull the hammer back with your thumb, and hold it, the cylinder slightly over rotates, thus potentially throwing the alignment off the firing pin and primer enough to get light/no hits on the primer. 

 

Forget the trigger.  Can you explain how pulling the hammer back and holding it is different than pulling the hammer back and not holding it?

 

IOW... with your booger hook nowhere near the trigger, pull the hammer back and hold it.  What happens when you take your thumb off the hammer?  Does the cylinder un-over-rotate?  If the answer is "yes" then your pistols need some work.

Edited April 17 by Stump Water

[Tom Bullweed]

Nineteen yeas of shooting cowboy-action and I have not learned why anyone would use the pistol outside of its design, would take a chance on over rotation (forcing a go-around of the cylinder), or shoot the pistola in the least accurate manner.

But then, what do I know?

[Captain Bill Burt]

11 minutes ago, Tom Bullweed said:

Nineteen yeas of shooting cowboy-action and I have not learned why anyone would use the pistol outside of its design, would take a chance on over rotation (forcing a go-around of the cylinder), or shoot the pistola in the least accurate manner.

But then, what do I know?

I can help with that. Because they believe it’s faster, and for some people it is.

 

I’ve only been shooting CAS for 13 years.  I’ve learned that there’s a lot I don’t know, so I try to keep an open mind.

[Sam Sackett]

2 hours ago, Stump Water said:

 

Forget the trigger.  Can you explain how pulling the hammer back and holding it is different than pulling the hammer back and not holding it?

 

IOW... with your booger hook nowhere near the trigger, pull the hammer back and hold it.  What happens when you take your thumb off the hammer?  Does the cylinder un-over-rotate?  If the answer is "yes" then your pistols need some work.

This thread is about slip hammering. Could it be that holding the trigger back during slip hammering will allow the cylinder to over rotate?  I’m thinking not, but could the cylinder stop (bolt) stay down enough to allow it?
 

I dunno.  Never tried it and probably won’t. 
 

Sam Sackett 

Edited April 18 by Sam Sackett

[Kingsley]

8 hours ago, Tom Bullweed said:

Nineteen yeas of shooting cowboy-action and I have not learned why anyone would use the pistol outside of its design, would take a chance on over rotation (forcing a go-around of the cylinder), or shoot the pistola in the least accurate manner.

But then, what do I know?

From your comment I'm assuming you are shooting completely stock handguns?  I'll push the question a bit and assume you are also shooting completely stock rifle and shotgun?  Since they were designed that way?

 

In 19 years you've been playing CAS, I would also assume that you have ALSO seen people shooting guns that have had action jobs, short stroked, SG barrels opened up? Or God forbid, removal of a Ruger transfer bar.  All of this modifications fall outside of the design of the firearm in question.  Yet a huge majority of our Cowboy/Cowgirl friends go this route.

 

I slip hammer my pistols (Ruger NMV) all the time.  Were they designed by Ruger not to be slipped hammer's?  I don't know, never talked with the design engineer about it.  I do know the lawyer's got involved and explained how to shoot the gun in the owners manual.  They state you must fully release the trigger for each shot.

 

I used to have an issue, occasionally, with the dreaded Ruger go-around.  Really it was my problem with the hammer profile I was using and the fact my cocking thumb has absolutely no feeling in it what so-ever.  I say never, repeat never, run a 38 cal sizing punch through your thumb!!!  It will remove all feeling sensation from that thumb.  But I have since changed the hammer profile (thumb still has no feeling in it) and the dreaded go-around is completely gone.   My problem, and I'm assuming everyone with the go-around, is not fully rotating the cylinder, short stroking the gun.  Not over rotation.   

 

And I have to agree with Stump Water's comment.  If your gun (Ruger) is over rotating, you have a problem with that firearm.  If your cylinder, cylinder latch (CL), CL plunger and spring are all in proper working order, the gun cannot over rotate.  The CL prevents it, having nothing to do with trigger location.  I can only speak for the Ruger's, never played around with any other manufacture of CAS single action guns.

 

Final thought on "shoot the pistola in the least accurate manner", good thing this game is not about accuracy (to a point).  We have evolved into a race against the timer.  I'm equally as accurate on a 16X16 plate whether I slip hammer or pull the trigger with each shot.  Accurate in, did I hit the plate?  We are not shooting bullseye here.  I can just do it much faster (name of our game now) by SLIP HAMMERING.

 

But then, what do I know?

 

Cardboard Cowboy