How to improve my rifle times?

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

In reviewing some of my LR stage videos it appears I need to improve my rifle times. I’m open to some tips and hints.
I know I can lever faster but I’m always holding back a little for good sight picture. That 5 seconds for a miss is always at the back of my mind.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

You answered your own question.

 

Phantom

[Presidio]

I could be a bit faster myself.  Not so much as acquiring the target, but also lately I have been focusing on "feeling" that round carry up, chamber, and lock in.

 

Maybe if I thought less of that, I could shave a few off the score sheet.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Here is some of Long Hunter's advice:

 

 

[Frontier Lone Rider]

A shooter told me he doesn't know of any misses until after he shoots the stage.  When he pulls the trigger, he is already moving to the next target.  He does not wait to hear the clang.  If everything is going well, he never stops at a target only shooting it as his rifle goes by.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Howdy JB.

 

Although I might build a few fast rifles, I'm not considered a fast rifle shooter either.

 

BUT, I did improve my rifle performance by removing my REAR sight.   My rifle barrel only has

a front sight.........which is a large brass bead.    I put the bead on the target and let it rip.

 

AND..... I have no beads on my shotgun....... nothing.   Point and let er rip.

 

Hope this helps.

 

..........Widder

 

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I have found that if I grab my rifle farther out on the forearm than I normally do, I have a more stable shooting platform.  The barrel doesn't bounce around as much while levering allowing me to stay on target and/or get on target faster.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

9 minutes ago, Frontier Lone Rider said:

A shooter told me he doesn't know of any misses until after he shoots the stage.  When he pulls the trigger, he is already moving to the next target.  He does not wait to hear the clang.  If everything is going well, he never stops at a target only shooting it as his rifle goes by.

You know when you miss...

 

And you do "stop" on the target. The length of time you "stop" on the target depends on a few factors.

 

Don't lump shooting the rifle into any one category...if you think you can lump a rifle shooting technique into one nice/fancy/convenient technique you're mistaken.

 

Also, the folks that are basically slam firing their rifles are doing so at their own detriment. 

 

Phantom

[July Smith]

Dead Eye has some really good videos on Youtube about SASS shooting.  If you haven't watched his videos yet they are definitely worth your time.  In my experience dry fire practice with the rifle is counter productive.  Live fire practice with a shot timer is the only real way to improve significantly with a rifle IMHO. 

[Frontier Lone Rider]

1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You know when you miss...

 

And you do "stop" on the target. The length of time you "stop" on the target depends on a few factors.

 

Phantom

 

I only know what he told me.  He really doesn't care if he has a miss or two, but he says he does not stop.

 

Most of this is just your opinion.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

6 minutes ago, Frontier Lone Rider said:

 

I only know what he told me.  He really doesn't care if he has a miss or two, but he says he does not stop.

 

Most of this is just your opinion.

Didn't say anything about "caring" if I miss...but keep on believing that you don't stop 

 

Now tell me, what part of any of this ISN'T opinion.  Is there some factual database on shooting rifles?

 

But hell...what do I know...

 

Phantom

 

PS: What's with the long laundry list of accomplishments?

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

PLUS ONE for Phantom.

 

I use to be really fast with a rifle.  Then I got Old.  As you get Old(er) you slow down.  Age is inevitable . . unless you encounter a Muni Buss.

[Cypress Sun]

 

Many years ago, Jim Duncan (alias) said "If you're watching your misses, you're not paying attention to what you should be doing". 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wild Eagle]

In one of Long Hunters videos talks about his "normal" practice session.  It's worth looking for, it's on youtube.  One of the things he said is that if you want to get faster you have to shoot faster.  So one piece of his practice session is that he just shoots as fast as he can.  Kind of tries to hit the targets, but doesent worry about misses just shooting as fast as he can.  Then twoards the end of the session, he goes back to shooting fast but with a good site picture and hitting the targets.  I just started doing this and it has helped me some.  I think if I keep it up I'll see some real improvement in a couple of months.  I think Duece Stevens has a video out of him shooting a 1.5 second rifle string if you want to see where we both want to end up.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

You break your shot and move on...but...many times you know that you broke the shot when you shouldn't have (miss!).

 

If you're trying to hit the middle of the target you're disrespecting the rest of the Steel...

 

Phantom

[Wild Eagle]

Yes, in this sport you have to accept that ANY hit is a perfect bullseye.  You don't get extra points for hitting the center or for having a nice tight group.

[Eyesa Horg]

I can't seem to break the habit of wrapping my thumb around the stock. Seems when I don't, I don't close the lever all the way. Maybe due to my bad shoulder, I don't know! Gonna work on it this winter with some dry fire. I also have a bad habit of levering the first round before it's shouldered. A stop, start can't be good.

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

Point and shoot.  Don't worry about anything else.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

Lever, Trigger, Lever, Trigger.  Any other combination will cause you problems.

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

23 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I can't seem to break the habit of wrapping my thumb around the stock. Seems when I don't, I don't close the lever all the way. Maybe due to my bad shoulder, I don't know! Gonna work on it this winter with some dry fire. I also have a bad habit of levering the first round before it's shouldered. A stop, start can't be good.

Practice with it taped it to your palm to get used to what it feels like, then take off the tape.  (Use medical bandage tape, not Gorilla Tape.)

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

I also agree with Frontier Lone Rider.  I've only been in this game for 3 years but have really improved a lot, especially recently.  I don't shoot really fast, but fast enough so I don't always really know when I've missed a target, particularly when there's a lot of noise at the range that day.  Particularly on pistol these days, I'm kind of surprised when told that I had a miss -- which is also fortunately happening less and less these days.  In the next millisecond after you've pulled the trigger there's nothing more you can do about that shot, so move on.  They say golfers have to have short memories; I think CAS shooters need to have even shorter memories, and even shorter attention spans.  Laser focus on the next shot as best as you can and not on the previous one, as Long Hunter and Jim Duncan said.

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

16 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I can't seem to break the habit of wrapping my thumb around the stock. Seems when I don't, I don't close the lever all the way. Maybe due to my bad shoulder, I don't know! Gonna work on it this winter with some dry fire. I also have a bad habit of levering the first round before it's shouldered. A stop, start can't be good.

Wrap a rubber band around your hand to keep your thumb close to your index finger.  When practicing levering, the rubber band will pull your thumb back towards your hand making you conscious that you are wrapping your thumb over the rifle.  This will train your brain that your not suppose to wrap your thumb.  When you start to feel comfortable levering your rifle and not feeling conscious about wrapping your thumb, take off the rubber band.  Now see what happens.  

 

In the beginning of my cowboy action, I used to wrapped my thumb and I used this method and it worked for me.  Try and see if it works for you.

[Brazos Bo]

10 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You know when you miss...

 

And you do "stop" on the target. The length of time you "stop" on the target depends on a few factors.

 

Don't lump shooting the rifle into any one category...if you think you can lump a rifle shooting technique into one nice/fancy/convenient technique you're mistaken.

 

Also, the folks that are basically slam firing their rifles are doing so at their own detriment. 

 

 

 

Mr. P knows a thing or two about running a rifle, he's fast with that '73.

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

10 minutes ago, Brazos Bo said:

 

Mr. P knows a thing or two about running a rifle, he's fast with that '73.

 

But I aspire to reach your speeds.

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

35 minutes ago, Brazos Bo said:

 

Mr. P knows a thing or two about running a rifle, he's fast with that '73.

 

 

He ain't to shabby with a 97 either.     

 

..........Widder

 

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

I was thinking about this conversation and reminded myself of the difference between Cowboy Action Shooting and other types of competitive shooting.  In CAS, you don't shoot again at a target you've missed; that one fact differentiates this game from others in which you keep shooting until you hit the target, such as Steel Challenge, which I also shoot.  I have to have completely different mindsets for the two different games, because in Steel Challenge you keep shooting until you've hit all of the five targets, whether it takes you 5 shots or 15.  There, you MUST pay attention to whether you hit the plate you are shooting at.  But not so in CAS, where sending a next round onto an already missed target (ignoring double taps, triple taps, etc.) will usually earn you a 10 second procedural.  So, that's why in CAS it does no good to wait to see whether your rounds are hitting or missing their intended targets -- unlike in Steel Challenge, in CAS there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

Years ago I read a piece by Rob Leatham where he said something along the lines of "If your not shooting fast enough to miss you will never know how fast you can shoot without missing"   It was YEARS ago, so I may have misquoted him a bit, but the idea holds true, you need to push yourself (preferably in practice) to find out how fast you can really go while still being safe without missing, and the only way to know where that line is is to cross it 

[Major Art Tillery]

18 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

If you're trying to hit the middle of the target you're disrespecting the rest of the Steel...

I like that! 

[Captain Bill Burt]

There’s some pretty decent advice on here and some that I think is flat out wrong. Now you get to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

Red River Ray once told me you can’t win if you’re not willing to lose. I think that applies to all the guns we shoot, not just rifle.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

12 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

There’s some pretty decent advice on here and some that I think is flat out wrong. Now you get to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

Red River Ray once told me you can’t win if you’re not willing to lose. I think that applies to all the guns we shoot, not just rifle.

 

And if I might add another thing that RRR also told me:

 

'regardless of how much we try, we often shoot our following shots based on the reaction of

hitting the steel from our previous shot.   In order to help eliminate/minimize that........ shoot FAST bullets.

They get down range fast, make a fast and resounding 'DING' and the shooter is ready to fire

again quickly.'

 

Although I shoot a .32 with 100 grain bullets, I push them fast...... pretty darn fast.  It has helped me.

 

..........Widder

 

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

I not a fast rifle shooter.. anymore.. age has caught me..

But 15 or so years ago..

I watched a very fast cowpoke’s technique many times..

 

His shots were sometimes on the leading edge of the target..

some were dead center.. some on the last part of the target..

some high.. some low..

I mentioned that to him..

His question.. did I have a miss? I said no.

His reply was

“when I see steel.. I pull the trigger and go on..”

I have used that technique since.. mostly successfully..

 

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

12 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

He ain't to shabby with a 97 either.     

 

..........Widder

 

I like that..... Shabby Phantom. 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

I like that..... Shabby Phantom. 

Okay Billy Legend...

 

[Cypress Sun]

4 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

There’s some pretty decent advice on here and some that I think is flat out wrong. Now you get to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

Red River Ray once told me you can’t win if you’re not willing to lose. I think that applies to all the guns we shoot, not just rifle.

 

Boy oh boy...I've got some RRR quotes that I won't dare post on here but here's a tame one...

 

It's leever, trigger...leever trigger...not leever, leever...dumbass.

[Griff]

Shoot FAST?  Why?  I like getting my money's worth.  If I spend 60 seconds shooting a stage, it means I got six minutes of trigger time for my $15.  If I halve my speed or more I get less trigger time for my investment.  So I aim for the hat, feet, corner or less populated parts of the target.  I go home in the same car(truck) I arrived in, win, lose or draw... so...