Non short stroke rifles

[Rye Miles #13621]

Who’s using a stock rifle, Uberti, Miroku, Marlin, Rossi whatever….

Just curious. I’m buying a 73 Cimarron for a backup ( I already have a 73 and 66 short stroked) I was thinking of leaving it stock. 
Who’s running a stock rifle?

Thanks, Rye

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Most Marlin user are using a Non-short stroked action, BUT..... that doesn't necessarily mean the

rifle is still stock.

 

Are you talking about FACTORY stock, or non-short stroked?

 

..........Widder

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 minute ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Most Marlin user are using a Non-short stroked action, BUT..... that doesn't necessarily mean the

rifle is still stock.

 

Are you talking about FACTORY stock, or non-short stroked?

 

..........Widder

Thanks for responding, I’m talking factory stock right outta the box. 

(I haven’t got it yet.)

[Sedalia Dave]

I shoot both a 60 and 66 with the stock lever throw. I also have a Marlin. All three rifles are chambered in 44 WCF. However my main match rifle is a 38/357 Rossi 92. I also have a couple 92s that I use a backup rifles.

 

The biggest issue when switching to any rifle other than the one you shoot all the time is muscle memory. When the lever throw is different than what you shoot all the time it tends to cause you to bobble levering at speed.  I have to concentrate when I switch to shooting anything other than a 92 to make sure I don't short cycle the action. 

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

None of mine are Factory Stock.  All have the minor improvements to make them more reliable and last longer.  SS followers, shortened mag tube springs, tuned loading gate springs, rough areas polished, and on the 60 and 66 aftermarket lifter springs to improve longevity.

[Equanimous Phil]

I have two Uberti 73s. One was already quite smooth and the other rather stiff out of the box. I changed some parts and polished the action on both, but let them "long-stroked".

At least, I would change the lifter and lever leaf springs to reduce wear. And while ordering wire springs anyway, put a softer hammer spring, trigger safety block spring, SS magazine spring and follower in the basket.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Uberti Henry:  Stock

Uberti 66 Carbine:  Previous owner had an overly aggressive action job done to it.  I asked the great Happy Trails if he could return it to "more or less" factory specs so it would actually go bang when the trigger was pulled.   It now works properly.  It's a bit smoother than any of my other guns.  Based on the preceding, I leave it up to you to determine if it is stock or not.
Uberti 66 Rifle.  Stock except for the main hammer spring being lightened.  The factory one was so heavy you could barely work the lever.

Winchester 73:  Stock.

Winchester 92 (32.20) Stock

Winchester 92 (44 Magnum)  Well, obviously the barrel has been replaced from the .38-40 if left the factory with, and it has a John Wayne loop lever.  But the action is as smooth as butter, which you'd expect from a real Winchester.   So...  Semi-stock?

Armi San Marco 92 (45 Colt.)  A very pretty gun.  And from the box, a HORRIBLE action.  First gun I ever had have an action job done to it just to make it usable.   Told the smith I didn't want a race gun, I just wanted it to work like a real Winchester.   It now does.

Rossi (pre-Safety, .44 Magnum) Never had a problem with this gun, until I had the ASM worked on and eventually got the .32-20 Winchester.  Then it became clear that it was just a little clunky.   I had Happy Trails give it a simple once over, and now it's fine.

Uberti Burgess:  Stock

AWA Lighting (x2)  Both are Stock  (My "fastest" guns.)

Colt Lightning (.32-20)  Was described as having had "an expert action job" before I bought it.

Colt Lighting (.44-40)  It's stock, but a bit worn.  Won't feed from the magazine.  I've got Lassiter looking at it to fix that problem and make sure there is nothing else wrong with with this very old antique.

 

.22s

Uberti 66:  Had the same problem as the above rifle.  Same solution.

Winchester 9422:  Stock

Colt Lighting:  Stock

 

"Rifle Caliber" rifles.

Uberti 66:   Stock

Winchester 86:  Stock

Colt Lighting:  Stock

Winchester 94:  Pre 64, Stock

Winchester 94: Pre 83, Stock

Winchester 95:  Stock.

 

I think that covers everything.

So, I tend to run a stock gun, or as one as close to stock as is practical.

Granted, I am a bottom on the pack shooter, but I attribute that as much to not doing this often enough to get super fast as much as anything.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

My two Marlins, my Rossi, one of my Uberti rifles, both my Stoeger SxS, and all four sets of Uberti/Ruger pistols are all stock. I have no desire to change them.

[Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L]

All of my rifles are stock. (5 Winchesters, 6 Marlins, 2 Ubertis, 1 Henry (1860), 1 Armi Sport (Spencer), 1 USFA (Lightning)).

[Griff]

I shot stock guns in the game for about the first 7-8 months.  Then,. at my 1st EOT, had Bob Munden do an action job on my Colt SAA.  Haven't looked back.  I might grouse about short stroked rifles and pistols, but stock... no thank you!  Im firmly in the camp that believes things should be smooth and function with minimal effort.  I didn't even wait for Nate Kiowa Jones to slick up my '92... doing that around 1987 and the 2nd in 1988... a good 6 or 7 years before I'd heard of him.  I shot my 1st 1873 in stock form for quite a number of years, before putting SlixSprings in it.  It isn't even short stroked to this day, while 2 other toggle links are.  I learned a long time ago that smooth functioning, well tuned firearm can improve your shooting tremendously.   Even in the Navy, our armorer tuned our 1911s for us on the pistol team.  Even the difference in a stock NM Gold Cup and one that's been tuned is quite different.  My poor beat up old Combat Commander (tuned by our departmental armorer), that had been a duty weapon and often EDC went thru many years with hardly any finish because I was afraid to alter it's condition as it functioned perfectly.  Finally got it re-blued and re-tuned.  It still feeds Speer "Flying Ashtrays" like popcorn thru a goose!

 

Happiness is a finely tuned firearm.

[Chancy Shot, SASS #67163]

6 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

I have two Uberti 73s. One was already quite smooth and the other rather stiff out of the box. I changed some parts and polished the action on both, but let them "long-stroked".

At least, I would change the lifter and lever leaf springs to reduce wear. And while ordering wire springs anyway, put a softer hammer spring, trigger safety block spring, SS magazine spring and follower in the basket.

This

 

Chancy

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Oh yeah, I forgot my Spencer.  It's converted to centerfire, but otherwise unmodified from when it was issued.  Has to be helped along, but it works. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

HyYa Rye.

 

No. I'm not anymore.  Shot Short stroke fully tuned rifles for too many years.  I look really funny trying to shoot a "Stock" rifle.  Yule probably not be real real happy trying that as well.  Muscle Memory is a Cruel Partner.  However.  A stock OEM lever throw Uberti and run and function unbelievably light and fast with a really good Action Job.  Judicious rubbin-n-buffin where parts contact, Light Magazine spring or at least shortened.  Polished Carrier Block.  Light or shortened firing pin Return Spring.  After-Market firing pin, Reduced or replaced Main Spring and an after market lighter Trigger Block Safety Spring.  HUGE difference.  Most all stuff you can do yourself, sort of "Plug and Play."  For a 38/357 rifle I'd also suggest a Magazine liner with replacement spring and follower.  

 

Oh, and the lever will run light enough your gonna want a lever wrap.  It WILL hurt on the far end of the throw.

[Rye Miles #13621]

48 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

HyYa Rye.

 

No. I'm not anymore.  Shot Short stroke fully tuned rifles for too many years.  I look really funny trying to shoot a "Stock" rifle.  Yule probably not be real real happy trying that as well.  Muscle Memory is a Cruel Partner.  However.  A stock OEM lever throw Uberti and run and function unbelievably light and fast with a really good Action Job.  Judicious rubbin-n-buffin where parts contact, Light Magazine spring or at least shortened.  Polished Carrier Block.  Light or shortened firing pin Return Spring.  After-Market firing pin, Reduced or replaced Main Spring and an after market lighter Trigger Block Safety Spring.  HUGE difference.  Most all stuff you can do yourself, sort of "Plug and Play."  For a 38/357 rifle I'd also suggest a Magazine liner with replacement spring and follower.  

 

Oh, and the lever will run light enough your gonna want a lever wrap.  It WILL hurt on the far end of the throw.

Thanks, great info!! 

[Stump Water]

13 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I’m buying a 73 Cimarron for a backup ( I already have a 73 and 66 short stroked) I was thinking of leaving it stock. 

 

I'm the last guy to say, "Don't buy another gun."  But you already have a backup.

 

12 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I’m talking factory stock right outta the box. 

 

Why?  Ok, don't short-stroke it, but "factory stock".  Everybody knows box-stock guns, shot as much as we do, without "smoothing", will grind themselves up.  

 

CAS and non-CAS arms alike,  I don't have a single one that has not been worked on to make it run better.  Yes, even the "deer rifles".  

 

IOW, what Griff said.

[Rye Miles #13621]

5 minutes ago, Stump Water said:

 

I'm the last guy to say, "Don't buy another gun."  But you already have a backup.

 

 

Why?  Ok, don't short-stroke it, but "factory stock".  Everybody knows box-stock guns, shot as much as we do, without "smoothing", will grind themselves up.  

 

CAS and non-CAS arms alike,  I don't have a single one that has not been worked on to make it run better.  Yes, even the "deer rifles".  

 

IOW, what Griff said.

I’m giving my 66 to my son so I’m buying a 73 as a backup to my short stroked slicked up 73. Though maybe I could save a little money instead of getting a ss etc.

I know it’s not the greatest idea 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Thanks for all the replies. Ya’ll said what I was thinking , short stroke and slick up it is.

Much obliged 

Rye 

[Sam Sackett]

If you already shoot one that is short stroked, stick with that for the new one. I have been shooting Rossi 92’s for quite a while. A few months back I picked up a Codymatic. Damn thing runs like a house on fire!  But then I have issues when going back to the 92”s. I short stroke them and mess up. I have about decided to let the Codymatic go and stick with the 92’s. 
 

Sam Sackett 

[Michigan Slim]

Kaya and I both run stock Miroku 73's. I've offered to have her rifle slicked up. Uh, no. I think she would shoot my arm off if I touched that rifle. 

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

WHY fix , what ain't broke ? 

 

  CB 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said:

WHY fix , what ain't broke ? 

 

  CB 

Because I want it to work smooth and easy. BTW I haven’t got it yet, it’ll come sometime next week so I’ll see how it is out of the box.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

2 hours ago, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said:

WHY fix , what ain't broke ? 

 

  CB 

 

CB,

that is a great question, of which I think I have a reasonable answer.

 

The rifles we use in CAS were designed long ago, with the intent of being reliable when used

in a 'reasonable' manner.   "Reasonable" back in the 1800's is not in the vocabulary of todays

Cowboy Action Shooting, where 1000's and TENs of 1000's of rounds are fired.

 

Now to my point:  Those 'stock' rifles may not be broke from the factory, but when used in

the manner that we use them, they do tend to brake rather quickly UNLESS some of those

factory items aren't fixed (smoothing parts, changing springs, etc.....)

 

One of the 'factory stock' issues encountered with a Marlin 1894 is the timing issues 

made in the carrier.   Another is some tight chamber specs that can cause sticking

brass in the chamber.   Another is that flopping trigger, overly stiff loading gates, and

overly strong lever/trigger safety bars that pop the lever open before the shooter is

ready to even pick up the rifle from a table.

 

So it may not be broke,  but some of those 'stock' rifles sure feel like they are because the

reliability back in the 1800's ain't the definition of 'reliability' in the world of CAS.

 

Have a good day.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

CB,

that is a great question, of which I think I have a reasonable answer.

 

The rifles we use in CAS were designed long ago, with the intent of being reliable when used

in a 'reasonable' manner.   "Reasonable" back in the 1800's is not in the vocabulary of todays

Cowboy Action Shooting, where 1000's and TENs of 1000's of rounds are fired.

 

Now to my point:  Those 'stock' rifles may not be broke from the factory, but when used in

the manner that we use them, they do tend to brake rather quickly UNLESS some of those

factory items aren't fixed (smoothing parts, changing springs, etc.....)

 

One of the 'factory stock' issues encountered with a Marlin 1894 is the timing issues 

made in the carrier.   Another is some tight chamber specs that can cause sticking

brass in the chamber.   Another is that flopping trigger, overly stiff loading gates, and

overly strong lever/trigger safety bars that pop the lever open before the shooter is

ready to even pick up the rifle from a table.

 

So it may not be broke,  but some of those 'stock' rifles sure feel like they are because the

reliability back in the 1800's ain't the definition of 'reliability' in the world of CAS.

 

Have a good day.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

You nailed it!! Well said!

[Griff]

I've codgitated over the short stroked rifle quite a bit over the years... I've gone from absolutely loathing anything about them to accepting that others seem to like them, to actually installing them in a couple of my rifles.  In a flash of hind-sight yesterday evening, I wondered how widespread they'd have become when approving them back in the day, the WB had simply said that no lever throw could be less than the Winchester/Rossi mdl 1892.  While that might have put the toggle-links on equal footing with the mdl 1892, without any further alterations.  The differences in actions would then be such that actual smoothing and optimizing their functioning, would decrease user input differences between them.  My smoothest Rossi is far more pleasant to shoot than my stock 1873, actually rivaling my best 1873.  Neither has seen the inside of a gunsmith's workshop, both being home worked.  Tho' that difference could also be attributed to the Rossi being a .38/.357 and the 1873 a .45 Colt.  I've tried my darndest to get my Marlin as smooth, but there seems to be a little bit of a hitch in it's get-a-long somewhere.  But, then again, it's a 45 Colt that's been converted to run C45S.  And It's still nearly as much fun to run as my Lightning for WB.  

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

Occasionally shoot my Miroku 73 stock as a rock.  Given I am slower than molasses in january.  The extra .5 inch or so of lever throw does not matter.  Out of the box the miroku has a slightly shorter throw than a Uberti as I recall.  Having never worked any uberti short stroked or stock cannot verify that.

 

[watab kid]

i shoot an out of the box in everything - a 60 . 66 , 73 and 92 mostly rosi and uberti , also the marlin 94 thats a real marlin , im not a fast shooter , i dont need that edge 

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

I run a stock Chaparral and a stock Winchester '73 born in 1891.  No problems with either.  Both are in 38WCF.

[Blackwater 53393]

I’ve recently thinned out my CAS rifle herd.  I’ll be the first to admit that I haven’t owned a rifle that I used for SASS that wasn’t slicked up thoroughly since I parted with that ‘94 Winchester that I shot my first match with!

 

Looking through the safe, I find that I don’t even own one CAS rifle anymore that isn’t short stroked!

 

[Diamond Jake]

On 10/10/2023 at 5:40 AM, Sedalia Dave said:

I shoot both a 60 and 66 with the stock lever throw. I also have a Marlin. All three rifles are chambered in 44 WCF. However my main match rifle is a 38/357 Rossi 92. I also have a couple 92s that I use a backup rifles.

 

The biggest issue when switching to any rifle other than the one you shoot all the time is muscle memory. When the lever throw is different than what you shoot all the time it tends to cause you to bobble levering at speed.  I have to concentrate when I switch to shooting anything other than a 92 to make sure I don't short cycle the action. 

 

 

 I bought a used short-stroke '73 at Land Run and just finished shooting the match.  On one stage I thought it was locking up halfway through the levering, but it was just I wasn't used to the short stroke yet.  But I sure like the short stroked rifle better than the bone-stock '73.

[Oddnews SASS# 24779]

I e never used any other kind