Storing Powder & Primers in Summer Heat (Not by choice)

[Buckshot Bear]

Storing Powder & Primers in Summer Heat (Not by choice)

Its only just a coupla' weeks into Spring down here in Australia and its already blisteringly hot and we have around 8 months until there's any relief.

Googling the storage of powders & primers in hot conditions it 'seems' like there's no degradation to them as long as they're kept in dry conditions.

 

Our external garage's and outbuildings are like the pic below just steel boxes and they will get up to 45°C (113°F) easy on a hot day, the house is cooler but if its locked up for the day again it can get up to 38°C (101°F).

 

What's your thoughts on heat degradation over years of storage to powder and primers?

 

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

if ya had a root cellar , I would put em in ammo cans and store em there 

 

  other than that Maybe put it into ice chests and store in the shade 

 

  CB 

[Cypress Sun]

Dry conditions also means lower humidity.

 

I keep all powders and primers in a climate controlled (ac) environment, never had a problem.

[Buckshot Bear]

10 minutes ago, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said:

if ya had a root cellar , I would put em in ammo cans and store em there 

 

  other than that Maybe put it into ice chests and store in the shade 

 

  CB 

 

We don't have cellars or basements here, they just aren't a thing.

I did think of storing them in ice chests as it would slow down temp changes?

[Buckshot Bear]

5 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

Dry conditions also means lower humidity.

 

I keep all powders and primers in a climate controlled (ac) environment, never had a problem.

 

That would be ideal, but not going to happen for me  

[Eyesa Horg]

Only experience I've had was to store 10K of primers and a few pounds of powder in ammo cans when I moved. Somehow they ended up in the attic of my garage that easily got over 110F. Discovered them 6 years later when I got back to shooting after building the house. All rounds performed flawlessly with zero FTF.

Just my personal experience, not scientific! I would agree, the cooler the better. Everything gets stored now in an old non working refrigerator in my basement in the corner of the foundation.

[Buckshot Bear]

1 minute ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Only experience I've had was to store 10K of primers and a few pounds of powder in ammo cans when I moved. Somehow they ended up in the attic of my garage that easily got over 110F. Discovered them 6 years later when I got back to shooting after building the house. All rounds performed flawlessly with zero FTF.

Just my personal experience, not scientific! I would agree, the cooler the better. Everything gets stored now in an old non working refrigerator in my basement in the corner of the foundation.

 

That's heartening Eyesa.

Because of the shortages over many prolonged years, when components are available we buy big and try and have 30,000++ primers on hand  and as much powder that can be obtained stored at different family members locations as lots of us shoot CAS but I do all the reloading for them but there storage is just as hot as mine. 

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

IMO , the ice chests will slow the rapid change in temp , 

 

  I have stored powder that way , in my shop . NO heat in the winter , NO cool in the summer 

 

  CB 

[Eyesa Horg]

1 minute ago, Buckshot Bear said:

 

That's heartening Eyesa.

Because of the shortages over many prolonged years, when components are available we buy big and try and have 30,000++ primers on hand  and as much powder that can be obtained stored at different family members locations as lots of us shoot CAS but I do all the reloading for them but there storage is just as hot as mine. 

Yeh, I sure didn't mean to do it!! They also survived the winters that got as cold as -30F for a week or so every year. 

Would it be worth getting a small shed, insulated, and AC just to keep the temp down some?

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Here is Hodgdon's statement on powder storage and temperature: https://hodgdonreloading.com/gunpowder-stability.

[Rip Snorter]

My stuff has always been stored in living space.  I don't have as much as some, but it has never been an issue.  We being in a fire ecology these days, I have actually thought of putting a root cellar / magazine at a distance in view of the house.  Some friends used to store stuff in very large, defunct chest freezers.

[Buckshot Bear]

17 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Yeh, I sure didn't mean to do it!! They also survived the winters that got as cold as -30F for a week or so every year. 

Would it be worth getting a small shed, insulated, and AC just to keep the temp down some?

 

It would be too cost prohibitive Eyesa, the problem is these blasted shortages that no one can tell the real reason just budgerigard scuttlebutt! 

 

It would be great if I could walk into any gunshop and by the components needed at will as I wouldn't have to bulk store. 

[Rip Snorter]

You could spray the storage building white or a light color, would make some difference, and cheap enough for the paint.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

3 hours ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

Here is Hodgdon's statement on powder storage and temperature: https://hodgdonreloading.com/gunpowder-stability.

That was very interesting, thank you.  It has me rethinking storing some of my powder in the hot garage long term.  For the benefit of anyone who did not read the link, here is the info:

 

Smokeless Propellant

The main ingredient of smokeless propellant, comprising from about 55% to 90% of the composition, is nitrocellulose. The process of creating nitrocellulose leaves remnant acid in the material. This acid immediately starts decomposing the finished product. Left alone the decomposition will reach the stage where the propellant becomes unstable and self-ignites. This process resulted in massive explosions at U.S. Government arsenals after World War I. 

To increase the life of the smokeless propellant, a stabilizing chemical is used. This “stabilizer” reacts with the acid to slow down the decomposition process. However, as the stabilizer reacts with the acid it is consumed. After the stabilizer is totally consumed, the propellant is no longer protected from the internal acid. 

The entire stabilizer / decomposition process is a time and temperature function – the higher the temperature, the shorter the safe life of the powder. Even moderate temperature, over extended time, leads to propellant decomposition. As a rule of thumb, any temperature over that which is comfortable to a person is accelerating the decomposition of smokeless propellants. 

Under proper storage, modern smokeless powder can last for decades. However, this does not mean the reloader can ignore how the powder is stored, particularly if in an uncontrolled environment such as a garage or storage building.

 

 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

And now, some thinking out loud for the OP.   Unless you are gone a lot, the temperature in the house is going to be pretty good most of the time, so I'd keep it in there.  If the house is empty and hot a lot, maybe put the powder all in one room with a small efficient window unit air conditioner set at the lowest setting for just that room when you're gone.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

My primers and powder are stored in my garage - non air conditioned with a non insulated metal door.

In Las Vegas Nevada.

Exterior summertime temps regularly well over 115 degrees and inside the garage - have seen still air temps over 130 degrees. 

 

Have yet to have had a FtF that was caused by anything other than my own errors.

[Presidio]

46 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

My primers and powder are stored in my garage - non air conditioned with a non insulated metal door.

In Las Vegas Nevada.

Exterior summertime temps regularly well over 115 degrees and inside the garage - have seen still air temps over 130 degrees. 

 

Have yet to have had a FtF that was caused by anything other than my own errors.

Temps here have been about the same in Texas, with high humidity to boot!  Been storing in the garage with no AC, but recently made room in the closet to store ammo already made up.  (.45 & 12ga BP). Didn't think I needed too, been stored in the garage for over 3 years, but this summer has been a real be'yeowch. So I got a little paranoid.

 

Took them out and some freshly made up .45 Colts for the Kirsts, for my first shoot in a long time, and only had one FTF due to a bad primer (some really old ammo).    Still store my primers and powders in original containers on the shelf.

 

So far, so good.....so far, so good.

[Matthew Duncan]

Buckshot Bear,

 

I noticed your building didn’t have any ventilation.  Suggest a vent at both peaks to let the heat trapped inside during the day to vent out.  

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I lived in the Mojave Desert for 28yrs. 

All reloading components were kept in the garage. 

Never had any issues.... 

What level of humidity do you see?

Might want to look into a dehumidifier. 

[Chantry]

Try a refrigerator, even if it isn't plugged in, it should work better than an ice chest.  Primers in the freezer section, powder in the other part.

 

If you can plug it in that's even better.  You'll have to play with the settings and determine the best temperature, but since you probably won't need to keep either section as cold as possible, that should reduce the amount of electricity the refrigerator uses.

 

And you can sell it that the wife gets a new refrigerator and you can use the old one for powder & primers.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

2 hours ago, Matthew Duncan said:

Buckshot Bear,

 

I noticed your building didn’t have any ventilation.  Suggest a vent at both peaks to let the heat trapped inside during the day to vent out.  

Painting the roof white would help too.  

[Hells Comin]

Radiant barrier on the ceiling and Interior walls.

101° in your house! Wow 

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

If you can't avoid the exposure to high temps be sure you're rotating powder and primers.  From what other's have posted it sounds like you should be ok unless you store powder out there for really extended periods of time.  My stuff is all stored in a temperature controlled environment, but I still rotate powder, primer and loaded rounds so that nothing 'sits in the back' for an extended period. 

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Being in Georgia, I think the key for us (or other humid areas) is to keep the powder tightly closed until use. Humidity saturates everything here and I'm sure open powder will be affected. I have not seen any effect on my primers; I keep everything in a non-climate controlled shop.

[Eyesa Horg]

3 hours ago, Chantry said:

Try a refrigerator, even if it isn't plugged in, it should work better than an ice chest.  Primers in the freezer section, powder in the other part.

 

If you can plug it in that's even better.  You'll have to play with the settings and determine the best temperature, but since you probably won't need to keep either section as cold as possible, that should reduce the amount of electricity the refrigerator uses.

 

And you can sell it that the wife gets a new refrigerator and you can use the old one for powder & primers.

This sounds like an excellent idea. A fridge on it's warmest setting would still be cooler and dryer than the surrounding atmosphere. Also, wouldn't be like a bomb as if in ammo cans.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

given the heat there , I would have thought cellars , would be all over the place 

 

  given they are all over the place in Europe , it seems that that would have followed there 

 

  white paint and vents will help IMO 

 

  Chickasaw 

[Max Payne]

I researched preferred humidity years ago & concluded it should be 50. I've had a dehumidifier in my  outbuilding "gun room" for 10 years now set on 50, But the building is well insulated, & I also have a window unit for the summer & I use a small portable heater in the winter.

[Griff]

For over 30 years I've stored my primers and powders in an old non-operating refrigerator/freezer in my workshop, attached to my pole barn here in Texas.  My most used powders are stored in 8lb jugs, with a 1lb can (plastic container nowadays) held in the door of the refrigerator section.  Some of that powder has been in there since I moved it out there in 1991... still goes bang and pushes a bullet out the bore upon demand.  This includes both smokeless & black powder.  Keep containers sealed tight and moisture isn't an issue.  the inside of my metal pole barn can beat 120ºF during the summer and endures freezing temps in the winter.

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

Powder, primers and ammo all stored in non air-conditioned garage in El Paso or Phoenix desert since 1994 without issue

[Texas Jack Black]

 Reading these reminds me of watching reruns of Green  Acres.

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

If you can provide it with electricity, I'm with Chantry on storing your powder and primes in a refrigerator.

I'm lucky enough to be able to store my stuff inside my home, in a basement room, where I run a dehumidifier in our humid summers.