Keeping it real

[Circuit Rider Jeff]

Folks as a match director and bush rattler for new shooters I was thinking just how costly it is for new shooters to get into this game. My thought focus was on the young ones, we need the young ones. The big problem for youngins is the cost to get in, it wasn't just 6 or 7 years ago you could grab a 73 for $800 or $900, look around today and $1500 - $2200 gets you a good rifle. I bought a matched set of Smokewagon's  in .357 just 5 years back for $265 a piece as backups, today plan on $650. Gun leather well, we need it. Then there is Ammo, most all of us reload and now that some powder, primers and lead are back we're alright but the factory made cowboy action loads are pricey. Pick your reloading machine you'll need one. So a reasonable # seems to be oh, $4000.00 to get set up. Allowing 22's has helped us in our area for sure and we have some great cowboys around here that are always willing to bring extra guns along for new shooters to try it out. I'm interested to know what's happening in your neck of the woods and what y'all are seeing. Thank goodness for grandpa's extra guns and time to reload.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

.22's are very hard to hear hits on some targets.

You might have to paint targets before each stage, and have the .22 shooters go first because hits will be easier to spot.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

We've gone to .22s and the troops counting know to really listen

 

 

[MizPete]

11 minutes ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

the troops counting know to really listen

I have fired spotters for counting on sound alone.

 

[Black Hills Barb]

I've been seeing 22s in use at clubs we shoot at.  I'm not opposed to allowing the use of them for monthly matches, but we do have to establish some rules when it comes to reloads, knockdowns, etc.  Most spotters have been pretty good at watching them, too.  Afterall, our buckaroos use them.  

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

We only had one or two shooters using 22s in the last year.  We also have a couple of young shooters, but they are using firearms owned by the parents.  Earlier this season we had a couple of new shooters, but it's too early to tell if they're sticking around.  As far as I know the "regular crowd" all reload, so for a new shooter to equip themselves requires an outlay of at least $4,000, but likely, at bit more if you factor in reloading equipment and components.  With the elevated cost of equipment it doesn't seem likely that there will be many new shooters coming along.

[Cholla]

Or, we could implement the same category as NCOWS aptly named Working Cowboy which just requires one pistol and one rifle. Less ammo is used, fewer guns are required, and as they continue on, they can use the same guns and not have to buy new ones.

[Anvil Al #59168]

My 10-year-old grandson just started this year. Started with .22's. 

 We just got him some .38 pistols and looks like he is going to get along with

the wife's backup Marlin Carbine really well. 

 

We have another buckaroo shooter the same age that has been shooting a few years now. 

He made the jump from .22's to .38's about 4 months ago and is getting along VERY well.

 

But they both did start with .22's

 

Our club and most all the clubs around here offer a .22 category for anyone that wants to shoot it.

I do every now and then.

 

And have no problem with clubs offering it. BUT. Will say. Think that's where it needs to stay.

At the club monthly match level. 

 

Just to add. We have never really had any problem with spotters counting for the .22 shooters.

 

 

Will also add. Hobby's cost. That's just a fact. 

This sport is cheaper than MANY out there. 

Can't get a nice motorcycle for what it cost to get into SASS.

Horses?? Forget about it. 

Boats?? Not even close

 

Have heard this same thing about cost to get into this sport for 17-18 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Me and our fearless leader at Firelands, Harry Yount, shot 22’s last year to show people that it was okay! No problem with the spotters and it was actually fun! We may do it again this year once. 

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Anvil Al #59168 said:

Have heard this same thing about cost to get into this sport for 17-18 years.

When I started in 1985 I heard the some complaint... I was lucky I had the guns I needed except for a pistol caliber rifle.  (They just outlawed .30-30 Winchesters a couple months before).  

 

We allow .22s at our club matches also.  Cost is not an invalid complaint... but not necessarily well directed.  As Anvil All notes above, it's all relative, 

[Itchy Trigger]

3 hours ago, MizPete said:

I have fired spotters for counting on sound alone.

 

My biggest pet peeve is counters that count hits and misses by sound!!!! There are freq. dead spots on the metal targets that don't make the same level of sound and the counters "should" be wearing hearing protection!

 

[Buckshot Bear]

Just my 2 cents (don't hate me for it).

 

For anyone other than juniors I think its watering down Single Action allowing .22's because of the cost (powder and primer shortages is another discussion).

[Hoss]

People complain about the cost of getting into SASS. 

I think we would all agree that you could get in first class for 10K. This would include 

73 $1800

pair if Jimmy Spurs or similar Rugers $2500

SKB shotgun $2000

good gun leather $750

rugged gear or Range Tactical cart $900

Dillon 750 press $1000

misc including clothes. $1000

in 5 years you could sell the guns for a profit, break at least even on the press, maybe take a little loss on the gun leather & cart. My guess with the profit from guns you would be even. 
Now, buy a motorcycle, boat, RV, golf clubs, etc. none of those will be worth 50% if what you paid. Get a horse, watch the money fly out of your wallet like bats out from under the congress street bridge. 
yess it ain’t cheap, but it’s less expensive than many hobbies 

[Cholla]

I come from a past that didn't have extra cash for many activities. I didn't have a horse, a boat, a motorcycle, golf clubs, or an RV. I worked at a factory and my wife worked part-time so she could be there when the kids got off the bus. I had a rusted and dented Dodge Dakota with 265K miles and two kids that needed sports equipment, Scouting trips, and musical instruments. In 2002 I did a side job that netted enough cash that I could buy a Colt Cowboy, thinking I was halfway to having what I needed to shoot SASS. Nope. The regs then called for two pistols. In my scratching to make ends meet budget, that was a bridge too far so I sold the Colt and gave up. Had I known about NCOWS, I would have not felt defeated and held out until I had another side job. As it was it took 16 more years and the sale of a book to get the money I needed to get in the game. I am sure there are those that have a similar story that could have been in the game far sooner if the four-gun requirements were not as they were.

 

To be clear, NCOWS has two-gun, three-gun, and four-gun categories so a newer shooter can work his way up as their budget allows. No .22s required.

[One Gun Jimmy]

I don't really understand the issue one way or another.

 

There is absolutely nothing we can do to help the cost of entry really, things cost what they cost...I just made the leap and I had ZERO of the equipment required.

 

I am not reloading yet 

I have bone stock guns

 

The cost of entry is what it is.

 

Now I don't think .22 should be outlawed, but I do think they have to be regulated so they can bu used for special circumstances such as $$$, injury or ability.

 

Lot of chance for competitive advantage abuse

 And I di think the BANG of the clang of full calibers is a big draw to new shooters so I would hate to see that be a thing of the past.

 

Also, make sure pardners are doing what they can.

 

I've been offered guns.

 

I've been offered leather by several

 

And I have a pard that offered to let me use there loader if I buy the components since I already save brass.

 

Don't get me wrong guys, the fact that this conversation is even had is because there are great people in this sport that love it and want it to continue.

 

But I don't think the cost of tools is the issue.

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Boating, golf, various other shooting sports etc. Everything you do as a hobby costs money, CAS is by far NOT the most expensive. 

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

All of the local clubs around me allow .22's at their monthly matches. I even shoot them a couple of times a year for something different, and they are fun to shoot. As for spotting .22's, they are not any more difficult to spot hits on then some folks who shoot 38 loads so light that on a sunny day you can follow the bullet to the target with your eyes. The only stage exceptions we have with .22's is that you only need a hit on a knockdown target. It doesn't need to fall, but 9 time out of 10 it does fall. As for a competative advantage shooting .22's I just don't see it. I do a lot of ROing and the folks that shoot .22's now and then, including me, are not any faster on .22's then they are on their regular guns. The .22LR was introduced in 1887 so it certainly fits into our sport's time frame. There is already a SASS class that allows a .22 so it's not something new not seen before. In today's economy young folks with families just don't have the disposible income to buy everything they need at once for this sport. On sale you can buy two Heritage Rough Rider .22 pistols for under $200. A Henry Classic .22LR rifle can be had for $350, and a used SxS shotgun can be picked up for $200, all for less than what some of us pay for just one Ruger pistol. Most shooters only attend local matches, and I am certainly not advocating a change to allow .22 usage at state or national matches. We need to adapt to draw new folks into the sport. If we don't this sport will cease to exist when the baby boomers can't do it any longer.

[Texas Maverick]

15 hours ago, Anvil Al #59168 said:

Will also add. Hobby's cost. That's just a fact. 

This sport is cheaper than MANY out there. Very true when you look at the big picture. I spent over $5k getting into this game 5 years ago.

Can't get a nice motorcycle for what it cost to get into SASS. Paid over $15k when I got into motorcycles. 

Horses?? Forget about it. Still have horses and spend over $1k a month on boarding them as well as misc care.

Boats?? Not even close Have a Ranger Bass boat that is in my garage and hasn't been used for 4 years now since getting into SASS and it was well over $26K when I bought it back in 2006.

 

Have heard this same thing about cost to get into this sport for 17-18 years.

 

It isn't cheap to get into this game but a lot cheaper than most other hobbies one can get into. Once you pay for your guns and leather then it just comes down to reloading and entry fees and the expense to get to matches. Easy peasy. LOL

 

TM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Nah.  The cost of Playing the Game today is relatively the same as ten years ago, allowing for ALL the factors like wages, etc.  NO.  This game is not cheap.  Never was.  It's always been expensive.  And, let's remember, the young/younger ones don't get in to this game on their own hook.  The parents get 'em in.  The young one get to shoot 22s.  Some clubs are allowing the BIG kids to shoot 22s once in a while too.  No complaint there.  This game is not going to get any less expensive to play.

 

Face it.  The CAS game is slowly imploding.  Kicking, screaming, and clawing, but imploding none the less.  The young ones today are simply not interested for the most part.  Cost is NOT the driving force.

[Seth Bradford]

At my monthly club, we allow adults to shoot .22 in a separate class. We typically have only 1 or 2 older shooters who compete in the class. I haven't noticed any problem with the spotters counting their hits. Only thing I have noticed is that as the RO/TO is that the timer often doesn't pickup the rifle shots, but as we don't normally shoot the rifle last it is not a problem.

 

My personal opinion is that we should be doing everything possible to bring new shooters into our sport at the local level. Grass roots is where everything starts, obviously a .22 shooter cant compete at the State level or above but once you get them in the door and they find out they love the sport perhaps they will stick around and later upgrade their equipment.

[DeaconKC]

1 hour ago, Seth Bradford said:

At my monthly club, we allow adults to shoot .22 in a separate class. We typically have only 1 or 2 older shooters who compete in the class. I haven't noticed any problem with the spotters counting their hits. Only thing I have noticed is that as the RO/TO is that the timer often doesn't pickup the rifle shots, but as we don't normally shoot the rifle last it is not a problem.

 

My personal opinion is that we should be doing everything possible to bring new shooters into our sport at the local level. Grass roots is where everything starts, obviously a .22 shooter cant compete at the State level or above but once you get them in the door and they find out they love the sport perhaps they will stick around and later upgrade their equipment.

I think I will start putting my Heritage 22s in my gear when shooting so if a new, prospective shooter shows up they can try a stage out with them. Cheap ammo, fun pistols will draw someone new into the sport.

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Seth Bradford said:

At my monthly club, we allow adults to shoot .22 in a separate class. We typically have only 1 or 2 older shooters who compete in the class. I haven't noticed any problem with the spotters counting their hits. Only thing I have noticed is that as the RO/TO is that the timer often doesn't pickup the rifle shots, but as we don't normally shoot the rifle last it is not a problem.

 

My personal opinion is that we should be doing everything possible to bring new shooters into our sport at the local level. Grass roots is where everything starts, obviously a .22 shooter cant compete at the State level or above but once you get them in the door and they find out they love the sport perhaps they will stick around and later upgrade their equipment.

This is exactly what we do at Firelands Peacemakers, we score them separately. We also allow a modified Wild Bunch and they are also scored separately. If it attracts new shooters I'm all for it! 

[Shawnee Hills]

Very few hobbies are cheap to get into and CAS is certainly one of those.  Still, a new shooter can get a good start in this game with a (relatively) small investment.

 

A pair of Pietta 1873 revolvers in .357 mag can be had for $880.  I bought a couple of these from Buds a few months ago for $800 and free shipping.  While not fancy, a bit of action work turned them into match-ready firearms.  They're currently serving as my backups.

 

A Rossi R92 in .357 mag can often be had for <$700.  It'll take some work to smooth it up, and won't be as fast as an Uberti 1873, but it'll work.

 

Iver Johnson is selling a 12 gauge coach gun for $480.  One could likely find a new Stoeger for the same money if they dug deep enough.

 

Used leather can be found for $200 or less.

 

Total cost for the above is $2,260 (not counting shipping or other fees).  While this seems like a lot, it's really not when compared to what most shooters have invested.  Buying used 'might' save some money but most of what I've seen posted for sale are already slicked up match guns for considerably more dollars.  Of course, we've not talked about ammo costs but that could be minimized by finding a buddy that is willing to do some reloading for a new shooter.  A cart can be cobbled together for very little as well.

 

All of the above being written, the use of .22s should not be forbidden to new shooters at monthlies.  It's a great way to get folks interested in the sport and once hooked they're likely to invest in better equipment.  I have a pair of slicked-up Ruger Wranglers that are cheap fun to shoot, and I try to make them available for loan.

 

The bigger issue is not financial, it is a generational march towards the inside beware-of-the-sun activities.  In our youth, a lot of us spent a summer weekend day playing in a creek and/or plinking with a cheap firearm.  Not as much of that going on now.

[Mister Badly]

$25 Baby trend expedition jogging stroller and a few pieces of wood for gun mounts. No modifications needed to the cart.