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5 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Going through my phone, I found this from October of this year

Time traveler?

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7 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

I never said anything about anual matches or what my club (s) is doing. It was a simple suggestion. Go on without me if you cannot read carefully and respond appropriately.

 

A lot of these things like rule changes and new categories start at the club level.

 

Ideas are good! Don't let this one slip away. Bring it up with your club and see if it gains any traction or changes behaviors.  Sounds like a good experiment.

 

 

I remember shooting at a club that each year gave out an award for best dressed buck skinner.

 

Each year, the same guy, the only guy, won that award. It never really got anyone else dressing the part, but he at least won an award each year.

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12 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

A lot of these things like rule changes and new categories start at the club level.

 

Ideas are good! Don't let this one slip away. Bring it up with your club and see if it gains any traction or changes behaviors.  Sounds like a good experiment.

 

 

I remember shooting at a club that each year gave out an award for best dressed buck skinner.

 

Each year, the same guy, the only guy, won that award. It never really got anyone else dressing the part, but he at least won an award each year.

 

Good observation. I'll take that a step further and suggest it really starts on an individual level. I don't dress to the standard of B-Western and Classic Cowboy, (I keep things fairly simple but above the minimum standard) but I appreciate those who do - it makes the game more colorful. That being said, I don't have a  problem with those who are happy competing while dressed at or near the minimum standard, and I don't believe we need a new minimum standard. I've not personally noticed a trend in shooters not "dressing cowboy", except for visitors/guests or folks who are just getting started and are still putting everything together. 

 

To those who are bemoaning a perceived decline in costuming, I would ask, what are you doing to encourage your fellow shooters to up their costume game? Are you setting an example that makes people want to emulate you? Have you elevated your costume to the next level? I believe in being an ambassador for the sport - are we being ambassadors for good costuming to others WITHIN the sport?

 

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I've been known to shoot a match in a henley, boots, hat and jeans.  I actually prefer it.  The waffle pattern seems to keep the rifle/shotgun in place on my shoulder and my shotgun belt in place.  I wear this at most monthly matches.

 

At an annual, I usually throw on my chinks and wear a 'cowboy' shirt depending on the weather.

 

Just like those that claim they have no interest in shooting sub 20 second stages, I have no interest in winning a costume contest.  But I sure enjoy being around everyone at the match.

 

I think the current rule set is just fine.

 

Totes

 

 

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My club doesnt care what you wear to a match, as long as you are a decent person. In the past two years we have lost a lot of shooters to no ammo, primers or moves. We have managed to recruit a few fellas but enforcing clothing guidelines that add more steps to participation us not something we care about. That said, everyone who is in our club wears pre 1900 clothing almost exclusively to matches. The new guys catch on pretty quick that its part of the game and build their outfits over time. When the gunsmoke settles we’ll sing a victory tune and we’ll all head down to the local saloon! They have our table ready and drinks on the way because our group is pretty hard to miss. 

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Some of you are talking of a "minimum clothing standard" that seems to be established. However, I can't find such a minimum standard in the SHB. Apparently, there used to be one in the past?

On 3/26/2022 at 4:10 AM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Shooter's handbook used to say what the minimum requirements were

 

In the current SHB I can only find two clauses (not including the costuming categories) addressing the topic of clothing: Outlawed Items and Clothing & Accoutrements

 

You cannot wear any outlawed item (modern shooting gloves, short sleeve shirts etc.), and you must wear clothing typical of the late 19th century, a B-Western movie, or Western television series.

 

Well, this isn't a sharp definition, but nevertheless I really can't see how a shooter wearing ONLY casual jeans and a Henley complies with those requirements. Of course, you are allowed to wear those jeans and that Henley, but it needs imho more to fit in a (B-)Western (Roy Rogers, Italo, John Wayne etc.) movie or a Western TV series (Raw Hide, Bonanza etc.)

 

Please also consider that there are items besides outlawed-items-list still beeing not legal hence not complying with the other rule (example).

 

While I find it very reasonable to facilitate the entry for new shooters by lowering requirements, I wouldn't endorse that longer than a year, just my opinion...

 

EP

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17 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

Which items listed? There's only a list of outlawed items in the SHB.

You quoted it above. "Clothing typical of the 19th century".

Surely you don't want specific legal items listed. That'd be a whole new handbook.

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1 hour ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

While talking minimum requirements, let us, too, remember that, muck like footwear and hats, pants are not required in most categories, either.

 

 

 

 

 

Just remember if Branchwater is wearing his night shirt please try to avoid any elevated stages!:D

 

Randy

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2 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

Some of you are talking of a "minimum clothing standard" that seems to be established. However, I can't find such a minimum standard in the SHB. Apparently, there used to be one in the past?

 

In the current SHB I can only find two clauses (not including the costuming categories) addressing the topic of clothing: Outlawed Items and Clothing & Accoutrements

 

You cannot wear any outlawed item (modern shooting gloves, short sleeve shirts etc.), and you must wear clothing typical of the late 19th century, a B-Western movie, or Western television series.

 

Well, this isn't a sharp definition, but nevertheless I really can't see how a shooter wearing ONLY casual jeans and a Henley complies with those requirements. Of course, you are allowed to wear those jeans and that Henley, but it needs imho more to fit in a (B-)Western (Roy Rogers, Italo, John Wayne etc.) movie or a Western TV series (Raw Hide, Bonanza etc.)

 

Please also consider that there are items besides outlawed-items-list still beeing not legal hence not complying with the other rule (example).

 

While I find it very reasonable to facilitate the entry for new shooters by lowering requirements, I wouldn't endorse that longer than a year, just my opinion...

 

EP

image.thumb.png.3763dfa2a22765351ba7879bd44d9aad.png

 

 

image.png.25b2e83afe60b946f44149343c4d0520.png

 

image.png.f6ca9aa41e07d772f9a08e0fce710ce1.png

 

image.thumb.png.cb79d7c5fd3ff7d6ababb746a0ac5e25.png

 

All these pictures "The Rifleman" "Wanted Dead or Alive" "Have Gun Will Travel" and "Bonanza" feature main characters in either jeans, or very 'jean like' pants, with a western shirt and boots.  That's it.  So, if I'm wearing jeans, a western type shirt, boots, and a hat, I'm well within the standard of a "Western television series."

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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Typical monthly shoot outfits I've worn.  Super cheap: my wife made the shirts, and the pants are canvas cargo pants that I removed the extra pockets and replaced the belt loops with suspenders.  The most expensive thing would have been the hat, but my brother in law made it for me when he worked at Rand's Hats in Montana.

 

The blue "Lawman" outfit is what I'd wear at a big match

IMG_1501.PNG

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Lawman 3.jpg

Edited by Diamond Jake
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13 hours ago, Diamond Jake said:

Typical monthly shoot outfits I've worn.  Super cheap: my wife made the shirts, and the pants are canvas cargo pants that I removed the extra pockets and replaced the belt loops with suspenders.  The most expensive thing would have been the hat, but my brother in law made it for me when he worked at Rand's Hats in Montana.

 

The blue "Lawman" outfit is what I'd wear at a big match

IMG_1501.PNG

IMG_9577.PNG

Lawman 3.jpg

 

The canvas pants look great! Great idea. I'll have to try that.

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Thanks for posting that Branchwater.  Lot's of food for thought in that video.  I came away from it wishing we had a more definitive section on clothing in the handbook. Having guidelines for people starting out is fair, but leaves a lot of room for interpretation later, which means the disputes about clothing will never go away.

 

Since clothing is a part of the game, just like misses and Ps are, I think it should have rules that are just as clear. 

 

B-Western and Classic Cowboy have very clear costuming rules, not basic requirements with an expectation of upping your game later. 

 

I certainly don't mind wearing more cowboy 'stuff' if that's what it takes to compete in SASS matches, but I want to be able to point to the rulebook and say, 'leave me alone, I'm within the guidelines' and not have this 'yeah but' continuing clothing problem. 

 

Under the current rules a shooter could dress just like Chuck Connors in the Rifleman, be in compliance with the basic requirements (for newer shooters) and specifically in compliance with the 'typical of...western television series' statement, but still arguably be criticized as a minimalist who isn't following the spirit of the rule.

 

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16 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

 

Under the current rules a shooter could dress just like Chuck Connors in the Rifleman,

But then you have to shoot like him.

PXL_20201206_184204498_exported_20933~2.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Thanks for posting that Branchwater.  Lot's of food for thought in that video.  I came away from it wishing we had a more definitive section on clothing in the handbook. Having guidelines for people starting out is fair, but leaves a lot of room for interpretation later, which means the disputes about clothing will never go away.

 

 

  It won't work BB! Look at all the shooting rules. You'd just be called a "dress gamer!"

  I have to question also whether the clothing section is actually just giving minimum requirements for someone just starting out. It may have been intended to be that way or that may have been what they had in mind, but does it say that?

 

Any good set of instructions will not rely on someones experience level or them being around at the time it was written to get the point across. A person that has never been to a match as well as the most seasoned cowboy action shooter should be able to read the shb and be able to operate within the parameters set forth in it. 

To me, the dress instructions are the minimum whether just starting out, or been shooting for 20years. Anything under the minimum for beginner shooters should be addressed at club level and not even be in the handbook.

 

 

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Seriously CBB I have no problem with the minimum standard. I might get some botas to add a little flair and probably a vest. I have some Scully pants and shirts and suspenders but I need to drop a few pounds to fit comfortably in them. To be honest I sweat like a Russian oligarch in a steam room right after all his accounts were frozen so the midsummer matches will all be minimal for me.

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Also, from the Wayback Machine

 

http://www.oowss.com/_RO_ Corner/2013 Summit minutes.pdf

Quote

Dress Code


Are there some problems with minimum dress code items. Specifically, the use of jeans.

 

Hipshot asked the TG's, “Is there any interest in trying to elevate the dress code?”

Logos were brought up. Apparel logos are different than advertising logo. It was suggested that apparellogos be removed. There was no support.

 

Comment was made the “period” clothing was not what we are requesting. Cowboys wore the minimum likecoveralls and or jeans. They generally did not wear fancy clothing.

 

Lengthy discussion on both sides. “You can’t legislate taste.” “If more stringent minimum standards wereissued, most clubs would not enforce them.”

 

A passage from the 2004 handbook stated that jeans were permitted. For some reason it was omitted in2006.

 

The majority seemed to prefer keeping jeans and current minimum standards.

 

A straw poll was taken to see if current minimum standards were acceptable.

The overwhelming number feltthere was no need to make any changes.

 

Some mentioned that current dress codes were not being monitored.

 

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Some who are trying to look the part while complying with guidelines re footwear are wearing boots not suitable for standing around for 5 hours, while others wear tactical or work boots, sometimes with botas. One wears street shoes and claims they are legal, while having an athletic advantage. Seems like there should be some clarity on footwear.

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When I first heard of "B Western" describing cowboy outfits for SASS I  didn't think of the fancy Roy Rogers type of clothing and gear. I more pictured the very simple jeans, workshirt sometimes with a very plain vest and commonly the cowboy hats that look a little to small. Very ordinary leather gear. Almost like a grownups version of a childs cowboy outfit.  You see it a lot in the cheaper westerns and tv shows. But for SASS it does mean the fancy Roy Rogers/Gene Autry type look that is cool to see.

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1 hour ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Some who are trying to look the part while complying with guidelines re footwear are wearing boots not suitable for standing around for 5 hours, while others wear tactical or work boots, sometimes with botas. One wears street shoes and claims they are legal, while having an athletic advantage. Seems like there should be some clarity on footwear.

Better yet, why can't someone come up with some good looking cowboy boots that feel good for those of us with foot problems?  That would bring more into compliance right there.

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15 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Better yet, why can't someone come up with some good looking cowboy boots that feel good for those of us with foot problems?  That would bring more into compliance right there.

You ain't gotta wear boots, you could try that.

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38 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Better yet, why can't someone come up with some good looking cowboy boots that feel good for those of us with foot problems?  That would bring more into compliance right there.

There two answers, and except for Muck Boots, I own and wear nothing but western boots.  First, the more expensive route, have boots made to order.  Expensive, but if cared for well custom  boots will last for decades, amortized not costly.  Second, and my feet are hard to fit as well, when you shop for boots have your feet measured, try on a lot, and only buy boots that feel good from the start.  With boots you currently own, you can try filling them with water, emptying them and walking around till they are dry.  I put on a different pair of boots every day and wear them till I get ready for bed. If I weren't comfortable that wouldn't be the case.

Edited by Rip Snorter
Typo
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I truly wish the caveats "for new shooters" or "just starting out" would cease.

 

The clothing police are the only group in SASS that seem to think complying with the rules is a moving goalpost.

 

We don't do this for stage times:

We understand, in the beginning - you may be slower, have more misses or accrue a procedural; but after a year or two - if your performance hasn't improved to some arbitrary level; I'm afraid you aren't playing the game correctly.

 

We don't do this for equipment:

It is understandable that you started out shooting Russian Nagants.  But after a while - if you haven't started shooting original Colts in a bottle neck caliber with black powder...

Well, you just don't have the spirit of the game.

 

And don't get me started on daring to take modern medicines, showering or driving a gasoline powered vehicle.

After a year or two; you should be willing to drop dead, smell like a cow pasture on a 115 day and ride a horse for daily transportation. 

Because my idea of cowboy demands compliance with some non existent code.

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As someone who enjoys the costuming part of our sport I try to look like someone of the time.  Its not always fancy or over the top but more that if I was in a movie as an extra or in the back ground I wouldn't look out of place.  Lots of movies characters have very simple costumes as was pointed out in an above post but when you look at them,  it saids  "I'm a Cowboy / sheriff / field hand or town folk.  They look like they belong in that time.   The term "Cowboys" covers a whole bunch of images and time periods when you really think about it.   The original post civil war cattle drive cowboys /  the 20s and 30s B Western Hollywood Cowboys and the later 50s thru 70s TV Cowboys.  Our sport represents all of these and any I might have missed.  My personal thought is that when you are at a match you should somehow look like you would if you were in any of these era's.   

 

Like always,  my opinion is worth what cha paid.

 

Best regards,

 

Chili

Edited by Chili Pepper Pete 11917
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3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Better yet, why can't someone come up with some good looking cowboy boots that feel good for those of us with foot problems?  That would bring more into compliance right there.

I think Trail Bandit may have the answer there with Durango Rebel. See Boot Barn ITEM #: 038617.

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Traveling to the big shoots, one of the things I always get tickled at is breakfast. You're sitting there eating the free continental breakfast at your choice hotel, and everybody's staring at you. They don't want to walk up to you and find out if there is, in fact, a rodeo in town. 

 

They just sit there and stare.

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