Three Foot Johnson Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: Going through my phone, I found this from October of this year Time traveler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said: I never said anything about anual matches or what my club (s) is doing. It was a simple suggestion. Go on without me if you cannot read carefully and respond appropriately. A lot of these things like rule changes and new categories start at the club level. Ideas are good! Don't let this one slip away. Bring it up with your club and see if it gains any traction or changes behaviors. Sounds like a good experiment. I remember shooting at a club that each year gave out an award for best dressed buck skinner. Each year, the same guy, the only guy, won that award. It never really got anyone else dressing the part, but he at least won an award each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said: Time traveler? May the force live long and prosper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Well said, Will Robinson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Stu Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 12 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: A lot of these things like rule changes and new categories start at the club level. Ideas are good! Don't let this one slip away. Bring it up with your club and see if it gains any traction or changes behaviors. Sounds like a good experiment. I remember shooting at a club that each year gave out an award for best dressed buck skinner. Each year, the same guy, the only guy, won that award. It never really got anyone else dressing the part, but he at least won an award each year. Good observation. I'll take that a step further and suggest it really starts on an individual level. I don't dress to the standard of B-Western and Classic Cowboy, (I keep things fairly simple but above the minimum standard) but I appreciate those who do - it makes the game more colorful. That being said, I don't have a problem with those who are happy competing while dressed at or near the minimum standard, and I don't believe we need a new minimum standard. I've not personally noticed a trend in shooters not "dressing cowboy", except for visitors/guests or folks who are just getting started and are still putting everything together. To those who are bemoaning a perceived decline in costuming, I would ask, what are you doing to encourage your fellow shooters to up their costume game? Are you setting an example that makes people want to emulate you? Have you elevated your costume to the next level? I believe in being an ambassador for the sport - are we being ambassadors for good costuming to others WITHIN the sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totes Magoats Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 I've been known to shoot a match in a henley, boots, hat and jeans. I actually prefer it. The waffle pattern seems to keep the rifle/shotgun in place on my shoulder and my shotgun belt in place. I wear this at most monthly matches. At an annual, I usually throw on my chinks and wear a 'cowboy' shirt depending on the weather. Just like those that claim they have no interest in shooting sub 20 second stages, I have no interest in winning a costume contest. But I sure enjoy being around everyone at the match. I think the current rule set is just fine. Totes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessey Hightower Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 My club doesnt care what you wear to a match, as long as you are a decent person. In the past two years we have lost a lot of shooters to no ammo, primers or moves. We have managed to recruit a few fellas but enforcing clothing guidelines that add more steps to participation us not something we care about. That said, everyone who is in our club wears pre 1900 clothing almost exclusively to matches. The new guys catch on pretty quick that its part of the game and build their outfits over time. When the gunsmoke settles we’ll sing a victory tune and we’ll all head down to the local saloon! They have our table ready and drinks on the way because our group is pretty hard to miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Used to be that way years ago where I shot IPSC - a really nice way to close a fun day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equanimous Phil Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 Some of you are talking of a "minimum clothing standard" that seems to be established. However, I can't find such a minimum standard in the SHB. Apparently, there used to be one in the past? On 3/26/2022 at 4:10 AM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: Shooter's handbook used to say what the minimum requirements were In the current SHB I can only find two clauses (not including the costuming categories) addressing the topic of clothing: Outlawed Items and Clothing & Accoutrements You cannot wear any outlawed item (modern shooting gloves, short sleeve shirts etc.), and you must wear clothing typical of the late 19th century, a B-Western movie, or Western television series. Well, this isn't a sharp definition, but nevertheless I really can't see how a shooter wearing ONLY casual jeans and a Henley complies with those requirements. Of course, you are allowed to wear those jeans and that Henley, but it needs imho more to fit in a (B-)Western (Roy Rogers, Italo, John Wayne etc.) movie or a Western TV series (Raw Hide, Bonanza etc.) Please also consider that there are items besides outlawed-items-list still beeing not legal hence not complying with the other rule (example). While I find it very reasonable to facilitate the entry for new shooters by lowering requirements, I wouldn't endorse that longer than a year, just my opinion... EP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 If you've met those items listed, you've met the minimum requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equanimous Phil Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said: If you've met those items listed, you've met the minimum requirement. Which items listed? There's only a list of outlawed items in the SHB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 17 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said: Which items listed? There's only a list of outlawed items in the SHB. You quoted it above. "Clothing typical of the 19th century". Surely you don't want specific legal items listed. That'd be a whole new handbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 While talking minimum requirements, let us, too, remember that, muck like footwear and hats, pants are not required in most categories, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: While talking minimum requirements, let us, too, remember that, muck like footwear and hats, pants are not required in most categories, either. Just remember if Branchwater is wearing his night shirt please try to avoid any elevated stages! Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said: Some of you are talking of a "minimum clothing standard" that seems to be established. However, I can't find such a minimum standard in the SHB. Apparently, there used to be one in the past? In the current SHB I can only find two clauses (not including the costuming categories) addressing the topic of clothing: Outlawed Items and Clothing & Accoutrements You cannot wear any outlawed item (modern shooting gloves, short sleeve shirts etc.), and you must wear clothing typical of the late 19th century, a B-Western movie, or Western television series. Well, this isn't a sharp definition, but nevertheless I really can't see how a shooter wearing ONLY casual jeans and a Henley complies with those requirements. Of course, you are allowed to wear those jeans and that Henley, but it needs imho more to fit in a (B-)Western (Roy Rogers, Italo, John Wayne etc.) movie or a Western TV series (Raw Hide, Bonanza etc.) Please also consider that there are items besides outlawed-items-list still beeing not legal hence not complying with the other rule (example). While I find it very reasonable to facilitate the entry for new shooters by lowering requirements, I wouldn't endorse that longer than a year, just my opinion... EP All these pictures "The Rifleman" "Wanted Dead or Alive" "Have Gun Will Travel" and "Bonanza" feature main characters in either jeans, or very 'jean like' pants, with a western shirt and boots. That's it. So, if I'm wearing jeans, a western type shirt, boots, and a hat, I'm well within the standard of a "Western television series." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Jake Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Typical monthly shoot outfits I've worn. Super cheap: my wife made the shirts, and the pants are canvas cargo pants that I removed the extra pockets and replaced the belt loops with suspenders. The most expensive thing would have been the hat, but my brother in law made it for me when he worked at Rand's Hats in Montana. The blue "Lawman" outfit is what I'd wear at a big match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Plus 1 for Rand's Hats, a great shop I've visited, more for Law Dog Hats, also in Billings, Randy has made several great hats for me' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Stu Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 13 hours ago, Diamond Jake said: Typical monthly shoot outfits I've worn. Super cheap: my wife made the shirts, and the pants are canvas cargo pants that I removed the extra pockets and replaced the belt loops with suspenders. The most expensive thing would have been the hat, but my brother in law made it for me when he worked at Rand's Hats in Montana. The blue "Lawman" outfit is what I'd wear at a big match The canvas pants look great! Great idea. I'll have to try that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Great discussion about this very topic by @Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 and @C.C. Top on their podcast this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Thanks for posting that Branchwater. Lot's of food for thought in that video. I came away from it wishing we had a more definitive section on clothing in the handbook. Having guidelines for people starting out is fair, but leaves a lot of room for interpretation later, which means the disputes about clothing will never go away. Since clothing is a part of the game, just like misses and Ps are, I think it should have rules that are just as clear. B-Western and Classic Cowboy have very clear costuming rules, not basic requirements with an expectation of upping your game later. I certainly don't mind wearing more cowboy 'stuff' if that's what it takes to compete in SASS matches, but I want to be able to point to the rulebook and say, 'leave me alone, I'm within the guidelines' and not have this 'yeah but' continuing clothing problem. Under the current rules a shooter could dress just like Chuck Connors in the Rifleman, be in compliance with the basic requirements (for newer shooters) and specifically in compliance with the 'typical of...western television series' statement, but still arguably be criticized as a minimalist who isn't following the spirit of the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 16 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: Under the current rules a shooter could dress just like Chuck Connors in the Rifleman, But then you have to shoot like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: Thanks for posting that Branchwater. Lot's of food for thought in that video. I came away from it wishing we had a more definitive section on clothing in the handbook. Having guidelines for people starting out is fair, but leaves a lot of room for interpretation later, which means the disputes about clothing will never go away. It won't work BB! Look at all the shooting rules. You'd just be called a "dress gamer!" I have to question also whether the clothing section is actually just giving minimum requirements for someone just starting out. It may have been intended to be that way or that may have been what they had in mind, but does it say that? Any good set of instructions will not rely on someones experience level or them being around at the time it was written to get the point across. A person that has never been to a match as well as the most seasoned cowboy action shooter should be able to read the shb and be able to operate within the parameters set forth in it. To me, the dress instructions are the minimum whether just starting out, or been shooting for 20years. Anything under the minimum for beginner shooters should be addressed at club level and not even be in the handbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Seriously CBB I have no problem with the minimum standard. I might get some botas to add a little flair and probably a vest. I have some Scully pants and shirts and suspenders but I need to drop a few pounds to fit comfortably in them. To be honest I sweat like a Russian oligarch in a steam room right after all his accounts were frozen so the midsummer matches will all be minimal for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Also, from the Wayback Machine http://www.oowss.com/_RO_ Corner/2013 Summit minutes.pdf Quote Dress Code Are there some problems with minimum dress code items. Specifically, the use of jeans. Hipshot asked the TG's, “Is there any interest in trying to elevate the dress code?” Logos were brought up. Apparel logos are different than advertising logo. It was suggested that apparellogos be removed. There was no support. Comment was made the “period” clothing was not what we are requesting. Cowboys wore the minimum likecoveralls and or jeans. They generally did not wear fancy clothing. Lengthy discussion on both sides. “You can’t legislate taste.” “If more stringent minimum standards wereissued, most clubs would not enforce them.” A passage from the 2004 handbook stated that jeans were permitted. For some reason it was omitted in2006. The majority seemed to prefer keeping jeans and current minimum standards. A straw poll was taken to see if current minimum standards were acceptable. The overwhelming number feltthere was no need to make any changes. Some mentioned that current dress codes were not being monitored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe Regulator Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Some who are trying to look the part while complying with guidelines re footwear are wearing boots not suitable for standing around for 5 hours, while others wear tactical or work boots, sometimes with botas. One wears street shoes and claims they are legal, while having an athletic advantage. Seems like there should be some clarity on footwear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 When I first heard of "B Western" describing cowboy outfits for SASS I didn't think of the fancy Roy Rogers type of clothing and gear. I more pictured the very simple jeans, workshirt sometimes with a very plain vest and commonly the cowboy hats that look a little to small. Very ordinary leather gear. Almost like a grownups version of a childs cowboy outfit. You see it a lot in the cheaper westerns and tv shows. But for SASS it does mean the fancy Roy Rogers/Gene Autry type look that is cool to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Roscoe Regulator said: Some who are trying to look the part while complying with guidelines re footwear are wearing boots not suitable for standing around for 5 hours, while others wear tactical or work boots, sometimes with botas. One wears street shoes and claims they are legal, while having an athletic advantage. Seems like there should be some clarity on footwear. Better yet, why can't someone come up with some good looking cowboy boots that feel good for those of us with foot problems? That would bring more into compliance right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 15 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: Better yet, why can't someone come up with some good looking cowboy boots that feel good for those of us with foot problems? That would bring more into compliance right there. You ain't gotta wear boots, you could try that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 38 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: Better yet, why can't someone come up with some good looking cowboy boots that feel good for those of us with foot problems? That would bring more into compliance right there. There two answers, and except for Muck Boots, I own and wear nothing but western boots. First, the more expensive route, have boots made to order. Expensive, but if cared for well custom boots will last for decades, amortized not costly. Second, and my feet are hard to fit as well, when you shop for boots have your feet measured, try on a lot, and only buy boots that feel good from the start. With boots you currently own, you can try filling them with water, emptying them and walking around till they are dry. I put on a different pair of boots every day and wear them till I get ready for bed. If I weren't comfortable that wouldn't be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 I truly wish the caveats "for new shooters" or "just starting out" would cease. The clothing police are the only group in SASS that seem to think complying with the rules is a moving goalpost. We don't do this for stage times: We understand, in the beginning - you may be slower, have more misses or accrue a procedural; but after a year or two - if your performance hasn't improved to some arbitrary level; I'm afraid you aren't playing the game correctly. We don't do this for equipment: It is understandable that you started out shooting Russian Nagants. But after a while - if you haven't started shooting original Colts in a bottle neck caliber with black powder... Well, you just don't have the spirit of the game. And don't get me started on daring to take modern medicines, showering or driving a gasoline powered vehicle. After a year or two; you should be willing to drop dead, smell like a cow pasture on a 115 day and ride a horse for daily transportation. Because my idea of cowboy demands compliance with some non existent code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 On 3/25/2022 at 9:24 PM, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: @T-SquareI'll post the first ones Wouldn't that shirt virtually guarantee you miss everything in sight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Pepper Pete 11917 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 As someone who enjoys the costuming part of our sport I try to look like someone of the time. Its not always fancy or over the top but more that if I was in a movie as an extra or in the back ground I wouldn't look out of place. Lots of movies characters have very simple costumes as was pointed out in an above post but when you look at them, it saids "I'm a Cowboy / sheriff / field hand or town folk. They look like they belong in that time. The term "Cowboys" covers a whole bunch of images and time periods when you really think about it. The original post civil war cattle drive cowboys / the 20s and 30s B Western Hollywood Cowboys and the later 50s thru 70s TV Cowboys. Our sport represents all of these and any I might have missed. My personal thought is that when you are at a match you should somehow look like you would if you were in any of these era's. Like always, my opinion is worth what cha paid. Best regards, Chili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said: Wouldn't that shirt virtually guarantee you miss everything in sight? I get that a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe Regulator Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said: Better yet, why can't someone come up with some good looking cowboy boots that feel good for those of us with foot problems? That would bring more into compliance right there. I think Trail Bandit may have the answer there with Durango Rebel. See Boot Barn ITEM #: 038617. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 Traveling to the big shoots, one of the things I always get tickled at is breakfast. You're sitting there eating the free continental breakfast at your choice hotel, and everybody's staring at you. They don't want to walk up to you and find out if there is, in fact, a rodeo in town. They just sit there and stare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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